I have got use to people acting funny towards me since my 2 year and 10 month old is highly gifted. He is already reading and has a very large vocabulary. He also loves numbers and counts well into the hundreds in English and Spanish. His pediatrician said he's a savant and referred him to a psychatrist for a neuropsych to more accurately gage his abilities and see if there are any disabilites. Someone, who I thought was my friend, but has been rolling his eyes and acting strange anytime my son spells a word, said that I am making a spectacle of my child by allowing doctors to test him. He also said he doesn't need any special education and can do fine in normal schools. He accused me of making him feel different than other children by allowing the testing. I don't know what to do. I figured going along with the testing would better help me understand what he needs. I think my son already knows he is different. He already barely speaks to any of his peers at day care, seems very frusterated, and only prefers adult conversation. I am so sad that this guy doesn't get that I am just trying to do what is best for Isaiah, not make a spectacle of him.

Quote:


"Let's start with the question of when to test.  When is the gifted child too young / too old for testing? The best time to test for giftedness is when a question needs to be answered.  School selection, educational placement decisions, early kindergarten, these are the kinds of questions that need an answer grounded in a comprehensive assessment, including testing.  The recommended ages to begin to answer these questions, and therefore the recommended ages to test for giftedness are from ages 5 to 8.  Note that there is a ceiling effect for gifted 5-year-olds on the WPPSI (Wechsler Preschool and Primary Scale of Intelligence); if possible, wait to test the gifted child on the WISC (Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children) after the child's sixth birthday.

By age 8 most gifted children already need to have accommodations in place for their appropriate education. Negative effects, such as underachievement and withdrawal, can start in the early elementary years in gifted children. Twice exceptional gifted children's learning disabilities can seriously affect test results by age 8. Early identification is key to proper social and academic placement for the gifted child."

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/why_test.htm

Hoagies inventory of tests & what they mean

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/tests.htm

"What the tests don't tell us

Some psychologists and counselors believe that a particular pattern of individual IQ subtest scores suggest a certain type of learning disability or weakness.  You might hear that a wide variation between verbal and performance scales on an IQ test (depending who you talk to, 2 or 3 standard deviations or 30 or 45+ standard scale points) for example, indicates a learning disability.  While this is a widespread assumption, research does not support this theory.  Read IQ Subtest Analysis: Clinical Acumen or Clinical Illusion? for a research-based explanation of why subtest analysis may not be good science at this time.  That said, many testers and researchers find that subtest scores combined with clinical or classroom observation IS an excellent indication of possible learning disabilities.

That said, in the hands of a twice exceptional experienced tester, subtest scores combined with personal observations will point to areas where further evaluation might be needed to confirm or deny learning disabilities in a gifted child.  The WJ-III cognitive, with it's large variety of subtests, is said to provide the most information in the potential identification of twice exceptional (gifted and learning disabled) children."

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/tests_tell_us.htm

I've been reading that said a lot. If you just need a qualifying iq score to get in a program you can use any tester just fine. If you suspect possible 2e find a tester who specializes in testing gifted children so they have enough experience knowing what they're looking at. The three I've heard of are the Denver gifted center, dr. Amand, and Aimee Yermish. I think there's a list in the Davidson database- the square icon in the links box in the sidebar above Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube.

It wouldn't be making a spectacle of him, because the testing would be private. However, unless your pediatrician has some reason to suspect disabilities, I think the suggestion that your son be tested at such a young age is very strange. Is there some reason to test him now? I only ask because absent the specter of LDs, it seems like a big waste of money and time; you can't use the scores for access to services, and they won't really be useful in raising him either. Everything I read also says that the younger you test a small child, the less accurate the results may be long-term.

ETA: I agree with ColinsMum; if you're not worried at all about autism, I'd consider turning down testing at this stage.

DS4 was doing similar at that age. We aim to test at 6, so that hopefully it is more accurate, but know that he is at least HG in the meantime. We have been able to skip K without testing. I don't think testing will make a spectacle of him but unless you have concerns about disabilities it is probably worth waiting. It can be an isolating but an interesting journey nonetheless.

The use of the word "savant" and "disabilities" and the suggestion of testing at such a young age makes me think that your pediatrician wants your son tested for autism, rather than for giftedness. Here's hoping that the result is "it's OK, he's not autistic, just gifted" but you certainly can't expect to get good information about how gifted at this age. If I were you, I would present the testing to other people (if you need to mention it at all) as being to rule out autism, anyway; that's much easier for people to accept, I think.

Do you have any concerns in that direction yourself? If you feel absolutely confident that there's nothing going on except giftedness, you might want to turn down the testing.

I say this in the most supportive way possible. You have said many times that people around you are saying something is wrong with the way your child is spelling all of the time, not playing with toys appropriately, not interacting with peers. You said he plays with older kids but is he playing like older kids (pretend play, for example?) or are they just more accepting of the fact that he doesn't want to play? I'd get him tested. It's possible he is highly gifted AND has Asperger syndrome, in which case he will still be the amazing, brilliant kid you know and love and he can still live a happy full life but he's going to benefit from very specific support and you are going to have a lot of new things to learn about how best to help him. From your posts it sounds like you are very scared of a diagnosis other than gifted and very defensive when people around you are saying something might be wrong (understandably). However, it also sounds like it is very possible there is something in addition to a high IQ going on. The neuropsych will be able to tell you. It's really going to be ok, a diagnosis is not a death sentence at all and will only help him get support to lead a happier life.

Good luck and I hope you get the answers you are looking for. If people want to argue with you about your decision to get him tested just tell them your doctor advised you do it and you are taking your doctor's advice, even if it means wasting some time.

I am going to try and answer all of the questions here. I am sure that my son is gifted due to is rapid development, especially in the area of language, however I have had concerns that he also has a disability as well. Mainly because he strongly resists change and reacts in dramatic temper tantrums anytime things don't go exactly his way. He also does not socialize with his peers at daycare.

He is very social and outgoing with older childre and adults, has a great sense of humor, and enjoys make believe play. I do have concerns about him being mildly autisic or having Aspberger's. I believe his pediatrcian does as well and this is why he is sending him for a neuropsych evaluation.

His pediatrician specifically said he has high IQ/Savant abilities especially in the area of language and that he is considering him a non autisic savant at this time but he is no expert. He said this is why he is sending him for a neuropsych to gage his abilities and/or any disabilities. By this statement he obviously is concerned autism is a possibility and so am I. If I was not concerned I'd have him tested older, just for placement in school.

One thought to factor in your line: "He also does not socialize with his peers at daycare."

If he is highly advanced, then a group of kids who coincidentally share his birth year are not necessarily his peers. If you plop a five or six year in with a group of two and three year olds, what would happen? Of course interests more like a five or six year old with the emotional control closer to the calendar age.

Ignore your "friends" and go get him tested. If he is on the Autism spectrum, early intervention is incredibly important. Without it, his temper tantrums will continue, and probably get worse. You think a temper tantrum is bad now? Wait until he's 8 hears old and weighs over 50lbs! Find a well-respected neuropsychologist or developmental pediatrician and get on the waiting list (it can easily take 9-12 months to get in to be evaluated.)

Your response sounds very sensible to me. Ignore your friends and get him tested--but try to find someone with expertise in both giftedness and ASDs.

Have him tested so that you know either way. Too early to test for IQ in my opinion but to find an answer about Austism, for sure, do it now. Obviously he is a gifted child though.

It helps to realize your friend's reaction is well-meaning but simply misguided.

You are the mom, and you know your child's needs. Getting the screening for autism/aspergers early will make a significant difference. It sounds like you have a very good, proactive pediatrician, and that is a great asset for you. Trust your doctor on this and go get your kiddo tested.

Your child will never be what your friend considers "normal", and there is often an attitude among bystanders who haven't walked in our shoes to think that we're somehow forcing our kids to be different. I doubt any of us want for our children the challenges that come with the gifts they have. But we've embraced our kids for who they are and are doing the best to give them the best tools possible for a rich, full life.

If it were me, I think I'd voice how hurtful it is to see my friend roll their eyes when I was discussing my child. If your friend is truly a friend, they'll hear you and a dialogue can begin where you can find mutual respect on the issue. If your friend doesn't hear you, then you have your answer about whether they can a part of that part of your life. They may make a better acquaintance than friend (someone with whom we don't share the private worries and details of our life).

Thanks for your responses. I am going to go ahead and have him tested. It is already scheduled for Sept. 26. His pediatricians office put a referral into the psychiatrist and said his insurance will cover the testing because they suspect a disability. I am relieved to hear this because I definitely can't afford the test. I really don't care what his IQ is, I know he is a bright child, I just want to know if he has autism or asperger's so I can get him in the right program early. I have noticed his rigidness and temper tantrums are getting more frequent and he seems very frusterated. I am glad he has been such a rapid learner but I really just want him to be healthy and happy.

It sounds like you are thinking of an assessment for autism that is not linked to an assessment for intellectual ability.

However, if you go to someone who specializes in autism spectrum disorders but does not understand giftedness, the specialist can see behaviors (like not playing with kids at day care) as a sign of autism, while it can also because a highly gifted child wants to interact with intellectual peers. It's complicated.

Going to a specialist who can tease apart this complex situation can often be of enormous help. This would be someone who has experience working with 2e (twice exceptional) children. It is too young to test for giftedness per se, but it should be considered when looking at a diagnosis.

Two readable, well-researched and well regarded books that I would recommend are:

- Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses of Gifted Children and Adults: ADHD, Bipolar, Ocd, Asperger's, Depression, and Other Disorders (Webb et al)

- The Mislabeled Child: Looking Beyond Behavior to Find the True Sources and Solutions for Children's Learning Challenges (Eides)

I read sections of these books over and over when my kid was little-- and not playing with kids his age:)

These books really helped clarify when a behavior can relate to (1) only autism (2) only giftedness, and (3) BOTH presenting in the same person.

These books can also be shared with a professional unfamiliar with giftedness.

Also: listen to your gut. If your gut says there is a problem (you seem to suspect something is going on) you very well may be right. However, it might not be what you expect. For example, I was worried my child lacked social skills in large groups and looked into autism--turns out he had a hearing problem and couldn't hear what was happening or when people were talking to him!

Good luck in your research and explorations.

At the end of the day, you still have the same great kid, so enjoy!

Isaiah09, it sounds like you are doing all the right things, and you have a good plan. I would like to second what laurel said re reading the Eides books and listening to your gut. Although we haven't wondered about autism with our kids, we have had a very similar experience re ADHD. In the case of our EG ds, he was at one point diagnosed with ADHD but his ped felt what the psych who diagnosed the ADHD was seeing were in fact related to being intellectually gifted. The Eides' Misdiagnosis book clarified what we were seeing as high IQ combined with a bit of other type of 2e, not ADHD, and that's held true as he's matured and what sometimes looked like ADHD has slipped away.

With our older dd *we* (parents) often wondered if she didn't have ADHD and her pediatrician was convinced she had ADHD based on her inability to focus at her dr appointments combined with the troubles she had socially and at school. Turns out... she had severe double vision... which we found out by the results of IQ testing where her scores dropped dramatically on two subtests that relied on vision.

With each of our kids we've found that it's a bit of a journey (sometimes a very long journey!) to get to a full understanding of why we see the behaviors we see - for our 2e ds we'd solve one challenge and then there would be another one, more thinking it through more testing etc. But it was all good in the long run - each set of data you get, each piece of advice from a professional etc, even comments from preschool teachers that you might not want to hear or believe - they all are data points you'll file away, analyze, and compile together to get a good understanding of what is up with your ds.

Re what other parents say - I'm guessing that maybe you're getting something just a little bit beyond the parent who is reacting to thinking you're pushing your child's IQ - if you are aware of social challenges, other parents may be seeing that too. I wouldn't tell another parent my ds was suspected of being a savant or highly gifted or whatever... and for the most part I haven't shared specifics of our 2e journey with other parents either, except when I find a fellow parent who's dealing with similar issues. It's not that I feel like I have to hide as much as the thing is, when my kids were really young (preschool and early elementary) I found that many many parents were very into their own children's achievements and developmental milestones, and when you talk about your own kids, they are looking at what your child is doing mirrored into what their child is doing. And really, all kids are really really different no matter what their IQ.. so sometimes those conversations felt like parents trying to compete even though what I think is really happening is just caring parents looking for more data points to better understand their own child.

Parenting a child who is young and struggling in any way can feel very isolating. Try to not worry about what those other parents may say, and feel free to let us know what you're worried about and how the evaluation goes.

Best wishes,

polarbear

One suggestion I have is to see if your local school district does 0-3 developmental screening. This is a free assessment carried out by professionals (speech / OT / special ed). If they have any concerns, your ds should qualify for special services through the district. Child psychiatrists often don't have a lot of experience with very young kids and can be biased toward pathology (I would still keep your appt...but just get this second opinion).

I have had to keep most of my ds' precocity to myself ...it can be lonely. I am fortunate that one of my friends (a former teacher) knows about GT kids and has been pushing us to recognize my ds as gifted. I finally feel like I can talk in RL about the benefits and drawbacks of my ds' advanced abilities.

Isaiah09, my two cents-- it will be very important that the evaluator have expertise in autism spectrum disorders, since that is what you are trying to rule in or out.

We found that with my extremely precocious DS that the school district and many private evaluators failed to make correct evaluations, saying he was "bright but quirky"-- when he really had a disability, Asperger's, that needed remediation. We lost a lot of years that could have been spent on therapy. It is very easy for a practitioner who is only familiar with "classic" autism to look at a gifted child with autism and not see the autism at all, because the gifts make it much harder to see the disability.

The "Misdiagnosis" book says that gifted kids are often misidentified as having disabilities, and that may be true; but in our case we saw that they can also be underdiagnosed because of their giftedness, with serious negative implications.

DeeDee

An experienced preschool teacher put it this way re socialisation at this age with peers at this age...
"imagine putting a child in a chicken pen and expecting them to play with the chickens. They try to line them up and play games which the chickens can't/won't, they work out which chickens will peck them so avoid those ones. When the chicken feeder comes (teacher) they desperately try to have a conversation before they are the pushed back into the chicken pen..."

Thanks for all of your responses. I am going to be very careful with how I take what the psychiatrist says. I don't know if I should go in telling all of my concerns because this could lead the doctor down a path that maybe he/she wouldn't have taken. I would rather just let the doctor evaluate my son and see what he/she thinks. I have my own concerns but I really don't think he is autisic..I'm not sure though since it is a spectrum disorder. He does have some signs but those could also be related to him being highly gifted. He is reading and not even 3 yet. Bobbie I like your example of putting a child in a chicken pen..I think that is how my son feels at daycare. It's probably why he won't talk to any of the children and thrives on conversations with adults. Ohh how I just wish I had all of the answers.

Sorry I didn't see this and chime in sooner.

I have a son who was reading at 22 months (among other things), but wasn't dx as PG + Aspergers until he was 6. For SIX YEARS, I wondered and fought within myself wondering what was wrong with him, why he wasn't like other kids, what I should do about school, what I should do about friends, how to get people to stop making a spectacle of us as a family... etc, etc.

We waited until 6 for testing because we were told he would likely hit too many ceilings on the WPPSI. We waited for the WISC, but that meant we didn't find out about the Asperger's until he was already well aware of how different he was. We could've gotten advice/intervention sooner.

... then again, I'm glad we didn't know all that we know now. I may have done things differently with him, felt sorry for him, sheltered him, held him back, etc. He's grown SO MUCH over the past few years!! He'll never be the life of the party, and he'll never be an athlete, but he'll be well-adjusted for adult life, the answer to many problems, and above all, my son.

Be sure you get a second opinion, no matter what the dx. We had him tested by someone who specializes in giftedness, but she knew nothing about Aspergers. We had him see a neuropsych who was great with autism, but she knew nothing about giftedness. The two reports we got weren't opposites, but rather a clearer reflection of each other.

My suggestion is to clearly put all the information you have in front of the doc /evaluator. I think misdisgnosis tends to occur when a clinician observes something in-office and assumes this is characteristic of a child's normal pattern of behavior. In reality, kids present all kinds of atypical things in my office (sit as if a statue, avoid eye contact, cling to their parent, get really silly, roll on the floor...). Often these behaviors are NORMAL anxiety responses
to a stressful situation.

I second that. It took us two pediatrician visits to get a referral for anxiety, because I thought the problem was allergies and didn't mention the non-physical issues DD was having. I was also worried about leading down the wrong path, because I saw the emotional stuff as being a textbook indicator of [something I didn't care to have a diagnosis of, in large part because I didn't think it would have been accurate], but DD's doctor never even considered [that other thing].

This year, I'm trying the full disclosure tactic with teachers, too. It couldn't possibly be worse than last year, when we assumed (wrongly) that the teacher would rather figure DD out on her own. It was nervous-making to say, "DD has tendency X, which may make her competence level less obvious at school, [concrete example from the prior year]." But honestly, I'd rather the teacher understand what the issues are than attribute DD's occasional odd behavior to either not trying or "not that smart after all."

I know this is an old post but I couldn't read and not reply.

It sounds like you have a very bright lovely boy on your hands there.

I have a child who is almost exactly as you describe He's 3 - very advanced with language, self taught reader, super engaged and interested in adults and older children, savant type skills since 12 months old.

My little guy doesn't have temper tantrums or issues with change at all BUT

He does have aspergers!

I hate to say that my alarm bells are ringing loudly when reading your posts.

With holding your concerns to your doctor is not a wise thing to do. If he does happen to have ASD it won't go away by not dealing it with it or saying anything about it. It will just be lost time that you'll be kicking yourself for later down the track.

When my son had his IQ test (much after his ASD diagnosis) there were not dips in his IQ profile. He hit ceilings on all but 1 subtest and was confirmed to be EG evenly across the board.

It would have never identified his ASD.

If I were you I'd ditch the IQ testing (because in the scheme of things it doesn't really matter at 2 to have this) and get him tested for ASD.

There is a chance that his IQ test won't show anything and you might find yourself walking around with a big happy 'my child is a genius!' when really you may have something far more important going on.