DS1 has just turned 5, and is still refusing to write, draw, paint, or anything that involves fine motor skills. At about 2 his skills were reasonably good for his age, but now he is refusing to do any of it. When he does, he will have huge tantrums because it isn't right.

I don't know if that is in the normal range and I'm just thrown because his reading skills are so much higher than his writing, or if I should be starting to look at OT or something like that.

He's always been one to wait until he can do it perfectly before he tries. I'm worried that handwriting and fine motor skills are not something you can do that with. I'm also worried that if I take him to OT he will decide he's not good at it and not do it at all.

Geomamma our girls both really enjoyed their OT assessments, as have all the kids of friends we have referred. And he was quite prepared to say DD2 was functioning beautifully (and sent us for Ed psych testing) so he won't find problems that aren't there. Let me know if you want his details (CBD based)

Hi GM
This was my DS but at 4.5, we didn't realize it was such an issue until we met with his WPSSI tester. I actually just posted in the 2e section about how much improvement he has had in one year but that we still have concerns. I would be concerned about the not doing it. I hadn't realized how much he had internalized how bad he was at it in comparison to reading and other things. We did take him to OT and it was good and bad, good in that it reframed the discussion, problem in that this was a place with people with much more serious concerns than DS and they didn't really know how to reach him. He just wasn't going to write the same letter over and over. We went 1x a week for 2.5 months and then we were moving and I wasn't really liking the therapist so we decided to outsource it to the pre-k we sat down with them at the beginning about having him write everyday, not letting him opt out. Trying to get him to paint, etc. So over the course of his pre-k year he went from no you do it to drawing and writing
for his own pleasure.

Grinity said at one point that skipping those fine motor things early in favor of other
things - reading instead of painting or playdoh - can come back to haunt you because the body seems to need to learn that way. We did not push things he didn't want to do in favor of things he enjoyed and while I don't regret pursuing his interests, we let too
much go. So in the last year we have focused a lot on trying and working, this was the first thing that wasn't easy for him. But the upside is that having conquered it, he can write, his letters are getting smaller, etc, has taught him the value of perseverance and that you aren't always good at things.

My DS starts K next month and we plan to talk to the K teacher about whether he needs services or whether he has made enough progress to be at grade level. Is your
DS going to K or do you homeschool - if home than I would consider it.

Check out my post in 2e, I learned something very interesting about his perfectionism
but also that at this age it's so hard to know is it a problemor not or just looks like one next to the asynchrony. There was no harm in getting the eval and while I am not sure we got much out it because the particular setting was wrong for him, it did help to
restart the conversation. And I would find another one if the schools recommends it.

Oh and DS was also the I will it do it myself perfectly or not at all too! Could have walked at a year but cruised until 15 months rather than hold anyone's hand!!!

DeHe

I wouldn't worry yet. before dd8 entered K (at 5.5 years) prior to that she would have nothing to do with writing. I didn't push it , if she didn't want to do it so be it. When she went to K she realized on her own she was going to have to write. also she wanted so badly to write in cursive. To top it off she was moved to 1st grade a couple of months into the year so she had to write. She went from pretty much not writing at all to writing in cursive mid year in 2nd grade.

It was actually your post that reminded me DeHe - I've been thinking about it for a while. Usually at middle of the night feeds when I can't do anything about it

He's going to be home schooled, If he wasn't at home he would have just started our version of K. So I have time, but also less motivation for him, and less opportunity for him to see other children writing.

The only way to know if his skills are in the normal range is to get him checked by a OT or knowledgable tutor.

But his skill level isn't his problem - his problem is that his perfectionism is making him judge his skill level too harshly, and that is blocking his chance to get enough practice to develop normally. And because he has 'normal' gifted intensity, what that process looks like is a tantrum. He could just as easily be perfectionist and 'decide' that he can't even try and skip the tantrum but do all kinds of sneaky things to distract you from demanding that he do the work, but that isn't his way. (There is a lot to appreciate about a straight up WYSIWYG kind of kid - but it's hard on the ears.)

I would say that your job is to 'be the wall' and insist the he do some fine motor practice daily - it could be playdoh, musical instrument, typing practice, cutting up magazine picture 'whatever' but he must do something. He will probably continue to have tantrums for quite some time, and if that doesn't deter you, then it's fine also. But given human nature, it's probably easier to go to the OT, be sure that his skill level is age-normal, and then get some outside resource to hold everyone accountable that there is some sort of progress. ((Kind of like those weekly weigh-ins at the diet clubs))

I think that someone here has gone through the training that HWT offers, yes? ((Who was that?)) If there is not compatible person locally, I would try to hire her to help you plan homeschool writing curriculum for your son, or get advice if you should take the training yourself.
Scour the website - they even have free downloadable practice sheets:
http://www.hwtears.com/hwt

As for the perfectionist behavior problem - that is going to be an ongoing struggle, but it's a great sign that you noticed it at work trying to rob your son of valuable fine motor practice and are formulating a plan of attack. Yes - it's a noisy road ahead.

If you want to work on 'downmodulating' the intensity directly, (does it bother you when he has tantrums?) try meditation (you or him, LOL!) or 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook' by Lisa Bravo. Our intense kids are INTENSE! Yes?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

For more on perfectionism - check out this thread:
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....ice_tips_for_encouraging.html#Post109012

Interestingly, he doesn't resist those sorts of things as much. The penny dropped! I actually think it is perfectionism coupled with insufficient knowledge. I probably should have done handwriting with him earlier, but I've been resisting direct instruction. Off to look at HWT! Maybe even the one for his younger brother, to try to head this off for him as his fine motor is actually quite good, and he likes drawing and things at the moment.

DS8 hated all that too. He never liked crayons or coloring. He did like the water painting books. When he was 2 he "finger painted" with q-tips, didn't like playdough and didn't like dirty hands. I didn't think of OT because we were busy with speech therapy. He went to K with basically no writing skills but it came pretty quickly when he had to write in class every day. He still doesn't like it though. He prefers to use the laptop and he even has Dragon Speak Naturally to dictate to.

Hey, HWT question, do I need the teachers manual?

The motivation is tricky - school can be a double edge sword - DS did see other kids doing it but instead of saying I want to do that, I can do that, he said I am bad at it, I should be dong it already without help. It was bizarre that he knew he could read and they couldn't but didn't think less of them, and didn't really consider reading or the stuff he did anything usual cause he couldn't remember not doing it!!! I found that finding some buy in he couldn't rationalize away helped, like wouldn't it be great to write down your stories or draw your own space ship.

And I do my "best" thinking in the middle of the night!!
DeHe

Hmmmm....many people will say no. I would say I enjoyed having it...and I got it for each level.

One hint....buy two workbooks....one to work in and one to make copies out of. (you have permission to do this). Then if your child needs extra practice on a particular letter or group of letters you have a master to work from. You can always sell the manual and blank book later on.

I bought Printing Teacher's Guide - and it has a few really good pages about teaching pencil grip and excersizes for posture. How is his pencil grip?

If you just need help with 'which parts of the letter to make first' and getting the letter to sit on the line and be the right size then the child's book is fine.

Since you have a younger child that you want to get started with, you might want the confidence on how to start teaching from the

Of course they have videos now - Scroll down the video page

Until you get to the section - Teaching Tips for Educators - and start watching there.

Use the online screener with your older to see where the specific issues are.
It may be that the best strategy is to work with your younger child, aim all the teaching to the preschool level, and make it fun enough that you older just picks it up 'by osmosis.' You'll have to look around and see if their pre-k stuff is the right level for your younger. You can tell the older: "I can see that you feel sad about your writing so it inspired me to teach younger some writing skills so he wouldn't feel bad about his writing - you are welcome to help me if you want, or not. I know that either way, you'll figure out what you need to figure out about writing in time, and that if you want my help for any of the parts I'll be glad to give it."

By showing older what the 'parts' of writing are, his brain will be much better able to identify what is bothering him about his writing and he may be able to fix it without trying.

If you go that route, get a pre-K manual. Fun would be a good goal. I like that some of the videos show a lot of caring humor.

I'm quite fascinated by the flip crayons, but can't figure out if the claims should be believed. The big box at 17$ seems expensive, but there is an 'individual size box' that is 12$ - I had to hunt for it.

Good luck and keep us posted!
Grinity

DS8 was like that at your child's age until he discovered maps and mazes. Then he would spend HOURS drawing roads and mazes. We didn't push handwriting as long as he was using some sort of writing instrument. It took a while to find that he loved making his own maps and mazes.

You know Kate, he does mazes and dot to dots, actually. It really does seem to be just writing and drwaing. Stuff that's supposed to look like something!

Thanks Sweetie and Grinity, I'll have a really good look at that website, and a good think about my approach, and my motivation angle too, DeHe. I think my DS would be like that too.