Stopped to chat with my sister the other day, and she was really excited that her 4y.o. got into the local 'fun-but-serious' partial-day preschool. I was very excited too, she had told me about it a few days earlier and how hot-and-heavy the registration process is, etc. So I congratulated her and was listening diligently to all the talking points the director had gone over with all the families, when she started explaining how the director was very serious about parents giving their kids the 'gift of time'. How even kindergarten-age kids with April birthdays might do better with being held back another year. So I am trying not to say anything at this point but she is so bent on my congratulating her over all this great news about her very bright girl who is turning 5 in October getting into this nice preschool that she is ignoring the fact that I've consciously done the complete opposite with my very bright girl.
Now granted if you had the two of them in the same room you would not know they are only 6 months apart.
Knowing her girl has two gifted sisters, and seems really mathy, it wouldn't seem out of place to consider K a couple months early. She is very petite, however, and also doesn't speak with the developed vocabulary or force that my dd has, so doesn't come off as similarly advanced (can not quite pronounce preschool, for instance).

Anyway, the point is, I am not trying to convince her she should consider early K, but I just wish she would not stand there and try to tell me in no uncertain terms that I am robbing my child of the gift of time. Frankly I think when dd4 is 16 and has graduated high school (if things go that way) she might be better prepared to work with the gift of an extra year or so of time than she is right now, so maybe I'm just putting a year in the bank.
This was frustrating, my dh reminds me that she is more insecure in general about things so I can sort of understand her needing to be re-assured, but at the same time I don't really like having this cliched non-argument dropped at my feet and being expected to agree to it. Sigh.
every kid is different, every family, etc., etc., ....

Every kid, and every family is different though, and the wonderful news is that there are usually many ways to 'course adjust' as we get to know our children better.

If you are living in an area that is 'fast-track' enough to support a serious preschool, it's possibly true that OG kids are well served by the public schools even with the gift of time business.


I like to use these moments of 'deep feelings' when other people stand there and tell me I'm making a terrible choice (My dad a few months ago when I broke the news about my son going to boarding school) like metal detectors to help me look inside and see exactly were my fears are, and exactly where I would like reassurance, and exactly where I feel insecure.

I know that when I'm not feeling insecure, and someone starts down that path, I can pretty much guarantee that my body language will take care of things:

Warm smile, a bit indulgent, head cocked to the side, and eye's rolled when I say: Oh yeah, I remember when I thought that!
Then eyes wide and head up and bigger smile:
I wish I had one of those 'standard issue' kids. You've know my kid a long time - he's a lot of things, but regular isn't one of them.
Shrug
It happens, I'm just glad I was able to take the blinders off and notice.

BTW for my son he really did get the 'gift of time' as a 13 year old and made very good use of it. I love your idea of 'year in the bank.' Since he has a summer birthday AND a gradeskip, I joked with him that he was going to do 9th grade until he got it right even if he had to do it 3 times. He knew I was kidding, it wasn't really about the outcome, rather about the work he was putting into it, but sometimes it's a good thing to keep a child guessing a little.

Smiles,
Grinity

I don't know that I'd share this with your sister as it might come off as defensive, but this article by the National Association for the Education of Young Children specifically addresses that "gift of time" arguement: http://journal.naeyc.org/btj/200309/DelayingKEntry.pdf Both of my dds' preschool teachers told me not to start them in K when we did due to their late summer/fall bds. Dd10's preschool teacher told the parents of every child with a bd in May or later that they should wait a year.

I agree with Grinity that each child differs and what works for one kid may not work for another. That said, people who argue that all kids who would be on the young end need to wait a year are going against the research. It is just making a different group of kids the youngest. Someone will always be the youngest.

This has always been my response with regards to the birthday rule.

IMO, I really believe that if those seeking the "gift of time" have the ability to wait, then those of us seeking the "gift of not wasting wasted time" should have the ability to test for early entrance.

ugh - the 'gift of time argument" I hate the "gift of time argument" - (eyes rolling, head in hands). dd5's preschool used that line on me. Really - what the heck is that supposed to mean anyway? She will still have the same time - but just in a place where her academic needs are (hopefully) more likely to be met. It is not like I am hurling her towards her grave a year early. I think preschools use that line to get the "gift of another year of tuition".

I sure wish there was a way to bring up this research with my judgemental "friend" who redshirted her kids and takes every opportunity to tell me that they have been given the gift of time and that I have made decisions for my kids that she thinks are just plain wrong. Unfortunately, she, like a lot of people, believes what she believes and there is no research in the world to convince her otherwise. Although I like the head-cocking, "That's what I used to believe . . ." approach of Grinity's!

I figure that time will tell and the success of my kids will someday prove that "the gift of not wasting time" was the right decision for my kids. And until then, I try to avoid getting into conversations about education with anyone not in our situation. Thank goodness for this board!

Chris, I feel the same way when people give me a hard time about "pushing" my kids and "isolating them from the real world" in a gifted center program. I've heard numerous times about how their kids did fine in a regular classroom on an advanced learning plan, implying that my kid would too and that I am making a huge mistake. I used to get defensive now I just smile and say that it's great things have worked so well for their child. If they press, I usually say that based on my research and the experience of the school staff, kids like mine don't thrive in a regular classroom. Usually, they give me an uncomfortable look and shut up at that point.

Ooooo.. this presses a LOT of my personal buttons.

I definitely went a few rounds with a professional educator in my own family over this one.

It went hand-in-hand with "but it all seems to even out by late elementary anyway."

Ay yi yi. Well, sure it might... if, you know, you did the OPPOSITE of hot-housing, by effectively robbing such children of the learning environments that they crave and NEED. Of course, if you did that to an adult you'd imprisoned in an elementary school classroom you'd probably be violating the Geneva Conventions. Really, who would be cruel enough to put a child into a sensory-deprivation chamber to retard their natural development?



Oh. Right. Hidebound educators that don't believe that such children are truly different from most. Or "deserve" anything different. They should just "enjoy" being at the top of the heap, I guess, and leave well enough alone. And because that works (sort of) for a certain personality type of moderately gifted children in regular classrooms, it's supposed to be just fine for all gifted children. I guess.

I was raised by one of those people. Trust me when I say that "the gift of time" often buys such children extremely maladaptive outlets for those very understandable frustrations. BTDT.

I make plenty of parenting mistakes with my child. No doubt. But I refuse to accept that this is one of them. We have made very careful decisions about her educational needs and weighed those options carefully with her emotional and physical needs related to her chronological age.

We have given her the change to still be a child of her chronological age AND work academically at a much more appropriate level (high school), AND let her do this at HER pace. That is, she can do a full day of 'demanding' high school work in about three hours, and then she has all of the rest of the day to do self-directed activities. How on earth is this "robbing" her of anything?? I truly do not understand that. It puzzles me how placing her in a mind-numbingly BORING environment for seven-to-nine hours each school day would be better for her or "give" her something that we've taken from her.

What really kills me about people who criticize along these lines is that it almost ALWAYS happens with those that probe for information deliberately first. I mean, I try to be subtly evasive about my child's extreme giftedness. I do. I'm not shouting about her grade placement, I'm not volunteering the information to other parents. So what am I supposed to do when they persist in that line of questioning, though?? Lie to them?? WHY? If it makes them feel so defensive/inadequate/whatever, then they should have taken the hint and left it alone, you know?

Makes me crazy, it does.

My dd's bday was right at the cutoff. I held her back. Big mistake. Now she's gifted and old-ish for her grade. Regrets....I have a few.....

I have not observed much flexibility in the school system. Few MA public schools have gifted programs or guidelines for whole grade or subject acceleration, so I don't see many alternatives to starting gifted children in KG early. Typically one needs to keep them in a private school through grade 1 before transitioning to public school.

I really don't understand the lack of flexibility/one-size-fits-all approach in so many schools, whether the issue is when to start, time needed to master material, or skipping a grade/staying back. Everything else in the world is "sized": cars, clothes, shoes, houses, pens, crayons, everything. Why is school different?

To me, the US public school system (and some private schools, to be fair) is less about learning environments and more about applying industrial methods to education.

Oh well.

As for the gift of time, my kids will get it when they graduate: for example, the eldest will finish school at 16 and will have two years to use as he pleases (within reason). Internships, community college classes, sports, a p/t job, etc. etc. Sounds great to me. Why would educators be so against something like this?

Val

Good one mom123! There is that too.
Very interesting article. I wonder if it isn't too idealistic.
And I remember a few years ago, before gas prices shot up so dramatically - folks were saying: "It isn't that I want an SUV, but if everyone else has an SUV, then do you really feel safe on the highway in a compact car?"

I think holding kids back in more upscale neighborhoods has become an 'SUV problem.'
And my son did have the worst year in 2nd grade when they put him in a classroom with a lot of 'boys who were good at reading.' Sure enough there still weren't at his reading level, but they were a full year older, and much more 'pencil ready' and 'behavior ready.' I resent that the whole thing was a secret, and DH and I kept hearing that DS's behavior was 'immature' compared to the other boys.

I have a lot of sympathy for parents who want to protect their child from that!
I just wish there was magic dust that one could rub on kids to get rid of asynchronous development. I think that maybe 'Nurtured Heart Approach' might be part of that magic dust - older siblings are a big help - shorter workweeks for moms? - maybe meditation?...I'll be searching for a long time I guess. I'll bet a dollar that incoming kindy classrooms have more bouncy kids than ever.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Oh my! But wouldn't we all end up being dull? I know it's a pain, but I prefer the quirks.

So THAT's where the 'all even out by 3rd grade comment comes from!!!!
Now I can sleep at night. AH
Grinity

Hmm. I don't think I'm delusional. This may be more of a one-size-doesn't-fit all thing.

My kids don't really fit the academics-focused profile of a lot of the kids described here, in that they have high-intensity interests that go way beyond academics (e.g. sports, travel, doing stuff that's productive and/or creative). The idea of, for example, a marine biology internship involving scuba diving or snorkeling on a French-speaking Caribbean island would be heaven to my eldest. Why pick more homework over that? I've talked about the two-year gap with him, and he seems to be quite intrigued by the possibilities.

To me, the idea of rushing to college seems odd. Why do that when the world is there waiting to be explored? But that's just one person's approach to life. YMMV and to each his own. If the kid is desperate to go to college, no problem. We'll work something out. But I doubt it.

I agree with CFK. After 2 grade skips, I was ready to go to college and figured out how young I would be after med school, if I did undergrad and med school in 5 years (an option) and then residency.

I think a child does get caught up in the acceleration and learning curve and doesn't take that year off. Though I am contradicted by all those young sailors trying to be the youngest going around the globe. Though I do recall many were doing their studies online.

In NYC, even if you are in an accelerated program, you end up going to the same high school as other kids can get into. Although those are the highest scoring kids. But some of those kids actually come from gen ed. That high school is 31 on the US news list, but 2 for National Merit Scholars (thanks to someone for pointing that out as a comparison tool) is considered a top school for recruiting by Harvard and Yale.

At the end of the day, your kid, if not homeschooled goes to this high school, with age peers, and takes AP courses. Now, some kids actually leave this high school at 15 or 16 (as noted recently for a kid who left early to go to Harvard. But generally kids leave on time.

Gift of time. Not sure what that really means, but I know my fall birthday kid would have been really bored if I red-shirted her. Not allowed in NYC.

What would I have gained from gift of time? Intense boredom and probably would have gotten into much more trouble than I did. With an acceleration track, I pretty much had friends who acccelerated, and even though we partied through high school, we were also athletic, competed, were serious about being top in class and survived.

I think that being accelerated, there is an acknowledgement that you are smart and having top grades is part of who you are.


Ren

Wow, everyone has lots to say on this one, very interesting.
I guess whether or not dd is graduating at 16, or taking 3rd grade twice, I do know for sure that this year in K has been great for her, and she would have been very bored in preschool again. So, one year, one month at a time!

Good point.


Doing this comes naturally for some people, but that doesn't mean that going to college three months after graduating from high school is an archetype. I went straight to college; my husband didn't. I took two years off after an A.B. and then went for higher degrees. These steps were his natural and my natural. There is no single "natural progression."



My kids skipped grades because they had already learned what was on offer in, say, kindergarten or third grade. But that doesn't mean that they can't get engaged in non-academic things. All of us in my family can get very intense about things outside an academic or cognitive-based environment. We don't feel a "lack of learning" in these situations. Obviously, others are different.

As an example of contrast, many of the kids described here thrive on summer schools and/or summer academics. Someone in my family was this way as a kid, and it was great. My kids prefer day camps that involve lots of running around, trips to the pool, and arts & crafts in the summer. Ditto for sleepaway camp for the eldest. No one gets bored or in trouble. It's just how we all are.

We had a different idea of "gift of time" given to us by the psychologist who tested our son when we were wondering about early entrance to K. She said, "Let him play at home another year, and you parents take a break for a year - you'll have lots of advocating to do throughout his school career." It was good advice after just learning our kid was PG, and we used the time to read everything we could and plan what worked best for our kiddo at that time.

We ended up having DS7 skip 1st grade, so really with these kids, like others have said, when the gift of time occurs can shift throughout their schooling, depending on many factors.

Yes, I totally agree. For us, DS6 never did well in a 3yo program and we pulled him out and didn't have him in another program until 4. Even then just a few hours a week. It worked well for us. Then he skipped K and started first. I am glad we did it that way, and it was nice to have a year that was fairly worry free. He still did tons of academic stuff on his own that year, but it just wasn't in school.

I would 3rd this thought. I had no idea my oldest was even gifted before he got to kindergarten. He was old for grade (Oct birthday). Our school only had all day kindergarten. He would have had serious disciplinary issues a year earlier. A year later he enjoyed his peers and the flexible classroom. Another year later, we made the decision to homeschool which is definitely the right choice for him right now. And we still call him a 4th grader. He is very laid back compared to many kids on this board despite those achievement scores that seem to be at that PG level. He needs to work 3-6 grade levels ahead. With the focus and output required for a 4th or 5th grader.

So yesterday dd4 says they are not learning about Abraham Lincoln anymore, now they are learning about teeth. I asked her which was more interesting, and she said both. She said it's all very interesting, even science. I said, "especially science?"
She said, "It's ALL interesting! It's all great, I love learning." Again, seems to have been a good decision for her/us for now.

Print out those words and hang them somewhere where you'll see them often. That's the goal - and you are right on target.

I've been thinking about this lately. �Ds has a late birthday (october) so he can't start pre-k until �5 yrs. old. �He could enjoy a couple of years of school, then figure it out from there. �Or I can keep him home until he shOuld start first grade, since kindy's not manditory. �With his late birthday he'll be turning 7 in the October of that school year. �I think he'll be ready by this September. �He'll turn four this October, a month past the cut-off for pre-k. �Oh well. Who knows?

Wow! I couldn't agree more with the above sentiment. I just had a recent encounter with such a person. She kept probing for information. I'm, generally, tight-lipped about my DC's abilities. I figure DD can speak for herself and will show her stuff when she's ready. Still the other mom kept probing.

Anyway, one day she saw my daughter with an X-grade workbook. Or as my DD calls it "Game book". This mom took it as an opportunity to drill my child on the material and when DD resisted used that as *proof* against my child's abilities. That certainly struck me as defensive. It *really* ticked me off, too, to say the least.

The other mother is always going on about her child and his intellectual capabilities. I should have known that there was a huge comparison going on, but I didn't even think of it. Honestly, when someone tells me that their child can do/knows X,Y,Z I *belive* them. I don't use it as an excuse to compare or jump to test their child's knowledge when an opportunity arises. Sometimes, I wonder if the kid would be interested in a book club or somesuch with mine, but other that...I figure the parent knows their child.

Whatever the reason, I find such behavior - testing other people's children then vocally telling the child that "in their opinion" the child is incapable and the parent doesn't know extends far beyond defensiveness. It's plain disrespectful.

I don't *do* disrespectful. So, I ended the friendship on the spot. I am glad to know that it was all about sizing up and cutting down my kid so she could feel better about hers. It made it clear to me that spending more time in that situation was unhealthy. Perhaps, another red flag, was that the child tended to be a braggart about his abilities and tended to use the failings of other children to show how he was better than them. I thought it was just a bit of childish immaturity. Now, I'm not so sure.

Luckily for me such people don't come around often - the defensive turned outright rude kind, that is. The plain ole defensive type are a bit more prevalent, though.

MM.

P.S. I did resist the urge to tell the other mom that the book, while two grade levels above my DC's age, were still two to three levels below her ability. See, now *that* would have been bragging.

Mizzou, that does sound like the other mom definitely crossed a serious line! Yikes.
This reminded me of a completely different conversation I'd had a couple weeks back with another mom of a girl scout, she was asking about dd's grade, then age, then very specifically her birth month..I was really not sure what she was getting at (of course finding out exactly what dd is, I guess ??)
Anyway, I usually try to steer away from things like this by saying yeah, she's a bit young. This lady brought up the fact that she'd tried to move her own girl into k a bit early and had been told to 'give her the gift of time'. She sounded a bit cranky about the whole thing, but in the end I came away with the feeling she was more regretting a missed option rather than mad at me...
She continues to be friendly so I think she was just too curious, to my relief. But boy, that gift of time...whew!

One of the moms in DD7's class approached me at a school event last night, and the conversation went like this:
Her: Is that your daughter?
Me: Yes.
Her: How old is she?
Me: Seven
Her: She must be very advanced.
Me: She skipped 2nd.
Her: Yeah, [her son] told me.

It turned out that she was trying to figure out if DD had been held back earlier, then skipped to catch up with her age-mates. Her son (whom I'd thought was young-for-grade, based on his size and behavior, although he's clearly very, very smart) had repeated pre-K for non-academic reasons and was actually old-for-grade.

Yes, I need it posted for when I have the inevitable 'What did I do???' moments!