Hello all.

I have been thoroughly reading these posts for about a week or so and cannot express how thankful I am to have found this place!

I was identified as gifted in elementary (am guessing MG) and while I generally was happy at school I was also bored and not challenged and never had to put much effort forward until college.

My dd9 will be entering 4th grade and has been at the same Montessori school for 6 years and is very happy and loves learning but I am concerned about her being adequately challenged and developing good study skills and diligence. She does a GT pull-out one day a week at the local PS. We will be moving in 1 1/2-2 years and I am thinking ahead to a possible grade skip or subject acceleration when we move based on further testing and assessment. She is the easiest of my children for me to understand although I think she is more gifted and def. more emotionally intense and highly sensitive than I am, I do usually get where she is coming from.

DD3 was born in Vietnam and adopted at 10 months. She was very well loved in her orphanage and we have had minimal attachment issues. We were prepared for a develpmentally delayed baby and instead got our DD who started walking the day after we met. Her gross and fine motor skills are amazing to me, and she can figure out how to open or take apart anything. She has to touch/climb everything, and she is precious and adorable but often exasperating and exhausting. I had suspected giftedness previously but am becoming more certain that she is gifted based on what I am reading.

My ds6 has Down syndrome, and while establishing a special needs trust isn't something we need to consider for the other two, it has become very clear that the time devoted to advocacy will be similar.

I have already learned so much here and appreciate those of you with wisdom and experience taking the time to share it!

Welcome . My oldest dd skipped 5th grade, so speaking from experience here...

If you think that a skip may be in her future, make sure that she has both nationally normed achievement tests and an ability test in her school files. Ideally, an IQ test would be best for the ability test, but I understand that the newer version of the Iowa Acceleration Scale may use a composite CogAT at or above the 98th percentile in place of IQ. Also, I'd get her signed up to take the EXPLORE through your regional talent search next year. EXPLORE scores or other above level testing are not an absolute necessity on the IAS, but they are beneficial and are considered into the overall equation if they are available.

I also liked your comment about the time devoted to a special needs child and a gifted child in terms of advocacy being similar. I do feel like I spend a lot more time worrying about my dds' education and working with their respective schools than I might otherwise.

You may want to read the Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual now. There are some things to consider.
1) If a child needs a gradeskip, then sooner is often better than later. This is because in High School those grades really count, so it's best to develop those good study skills well in advance.
2) If you know where you are moving to, then figure out what the Manual would consider the 'Bridge Year.' I would recommend skipping early to prevent skipping a Bridge Year. Bridge Years are the years before a building change. My son did skip a Bridge Year (5th grade where we live) and the transition was very tough.
3) If you feel she isn't really adequately challenged now or developing good study skills now, then I would look at trying to solve this problem 'now.' Is there such a thing as a grade skip at her Montessori school? Are there other ways that you can met the same goal without limiting the amount of time she can attend her school that she is happy at?

I'm so glad you found us - Yippee!
Grinity

My dd skipped a "bridge" year as well. 5th is the last year of elementary here as it sounds like it would habe been for your ds, Grinity.

I know that the IAS says that those aren't good years to skip, but my dd had no trouble with it at all. She was still at the top of the grade academically and still got straight As post-skip, but she did have to work a little in some of the subjects (especially math), which was good. I guess that it will vary from child to child and will depend on a whole host of circumstances. I wouldn't rule out a skip later, though, if the child seems very advanced in all subjects.

i 2nd the iowa acceleration scale manual. i thought it would not be very helpful....but it gave me a lot of info...and tons to think about!

I agree. I think as the child's LOG increases, it's fine to break the IAS 'rules.' My son has a high enough LOG to be a Young Scholar, but he was also severely underachieving and has ADD. He also jumped from a public school to a private school which prided itself of training the kids to be used to a big level of self-responsibility and lots of multi-month projects. When my son transfered back to a very well thought of public school in 8th grade, I asked, at a teacher's conference: "Does he bring his own pencil to class? The private school was very concerned that he wasn't bringing his own pencil consistently."

The teachers all rolled their eyes and said: "of course he doesn't always remember to bring his pencil - none of the kids do!"

Interestingly enough, at the 'welcome to school speech' for parents of 6th graders, the principal told all of us parents that we should be prepared to play the role of the student's 'frontal lobes' - as if we were their fancy executive secretaries. That's exactly what I ended up doing - and we reversed lots and lots of DS13's underachievement. If I knew then what I knew now, I probably would have tried harder to get a gradeskip earlier, but if I hadn't been able to, I would have done what we did.

We'll be changing his school again this year, and reversing the skip, again because of maturity issues. I can't tell if he can't or won't follow directions to the letter, but all the smartness in the world doesn't replace attention to detail and work ethic. DS13 know this intellectually, but can't quite put it into action yet. He's young, so I'm hoping next year will be better.

I think will many of our kids, a bit of 'trial and error' is needed. Mine anyway! Flexibility is key!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

OK I am afraid to sound stupid about testing but it is confusing. Is the Terra Nova CTBS a nationally normed achievement test? She took that this past spring, and was at the 99th% for Language composite and total score and 98% for math composite. I just signed up for the Duke Talent Search so I guess will be receiving info about Explore. In the process of trying to find the right tester for IQ test. Will be ordering IAS.

I don't know exactly when or where we will be moving--helpful, huh? lol! If dh had his way it would be Asia but that won't work for dd6. I am hoping NE or West coast. I at least want to have all of the pieces in place to be prepared to advocate for her wherever we end up. I feel like the move would be a good time to skip, and the middle school here is just not acceptable--where we are now her current school is the only place that has the potential to meet her needs.


3) If you feel she isn't really adequately challenged now or developing good study skills now, then I would look at trying to solve this problem 'now.' Is there such a thing as a grade skip at her Montessori school? Are there other ways that you can met the same goal without limiting the amount of time she can attend her school that she is happy at?

This is the key! I *think* she might be challenged in some areas? I wish we already had explore results to get a better picture...but actually realistically--I guess she hasn't been challenged as much as I would like. She will be moving to Upper Elementary--4th/5th plus 1 or 2 6th graders. The teacher is new to UE--but I believe she is qualified, enthusiastic and will do her best to differentiate--I just know I am going to have to step up to the plate. Thankfully I know my good friend whose gifted daughter in in the class and at about the same LOG (I think) (and we are talking MG I think) is on the same page. The study skills are an issue--I had asked for more advanced spelling--they moved her up a year in the spelling book and it was still totally inadequate--I mean really a waste of her time. My experience of not having to make an effort has not served me well in life and I don't want that for her!

Her needs have been put on the back burner b/c the teachers love her and after spending 2 months in Vietnam, then coming home to my very sad and angry little boy who didn't understand where I had been with his new sister and the difficult adjustment and trying to figure out how to parent her and the dynamic between the two little ones for the past 2 yrs. I just didn't put enough thought into what dd9 needed. I have high hopes for the nurtured heart approach I read about here! So I am sure I will have questions about how to ensure she gets the most out of the next 1 1/2-2 yrs. to be set up for success. Trying not to feel guilty--she is a wonderful child with lots of potential.

"...the principal told all of us parents that we should be prepared to play the role of the student's 'frontal lobes'" This is what I need! Someone to be my frontal lobe! (I also have ADD--thankfully fpr her dd9 does not appear to!)

Thank you for your generosity here--I know it will be an invaluable resource!

Welcome!

There are no stupid questions!
I found this link: http://www.ctb.com/ctb.com/control/productFamilyViewAction?productFamilyId=449&p=products

and from what I read, it is definitely an achievement test, delivered by paper and pencil. It appears to be nationally normed because they say


It's great that she did 99th percentile compared to agemates. Taking the Explore to see how she does next to other 'top 5%' kids is a great next step. Apparently there are kids who score at the 99th percentile of things that they have been taught and exposed to who are being well accomidated right at the level where they are - while other kids who only scored 97th percentile do much better than the average gifted kid when exposed to material that is 'above-level' and this is felt to be an indication that they need classroom modifications.

It's ok to feel guilty about not doing more - we pretty much all do! And you do have rather more than average amount of parental responsibility here, no? Part of being gifted ourselves is that vivid imagination that can imagine that we have more time, energy and bravery than we actually do - and make it feel so convincing. Anyway, the only thing you can change is what you do today. It's also OK to not know where or when you are moving. It's easier to consider and prepare for the future than it is to take a cold look at today.

When you say that I cheer! You have a vision of what you'd like - that's the first step.

Asking for change - like you did with the spelling - that's the second step!

Third step is to monitor if the change is helping to achieve the goal. That's where you need to go the extra mile. I would encourage you to ask for a meeting now to review the steps that were taken and your evaluation of the steps so that everyone starts the year on the same page, and is willing to start taking further steps and continue to evaluate if the steps are achieveing the desired result.

You are so close DeaconGirl! I would suggest that you do some journaling or brainstorming and figure out possible ways to get the challenge now - and then ask for them. The spelling seems like a great place to start. The more the teachers see that the more advanced work suits your daughter, the more they will be willing to do in the future.

Love and More Love,
Grintiy

Your encouragement is much needed, and yes, I do...my husband works 7ish-9ish most days and rarely has a day off...so the vast majority of child rearing falls on me.

I need to figure out what I am asking for before I meet with the school but this is one of my thoughts...this seems like it would be a good replacement for spelling...
http://www.tip.duke.edu/independent_learning/language_arts/word_power.html

Other than that I just don't know--wish I had explore results already to have a truer picture of where she is. I am fairly confident that the school will be very receptive to trying to keep her challenged. But she is a teacher pleaser and well behaved and I think sometimes likes to know all the answers (perfectionism is an issue). So, trying to get some more ideas and in the meantime thanks again!

If the IQ tests don't show what you think they should, don't fret. The test scores fluctuate with the child's mood and behavior, and sometimes your gifted child may have poor test-taking skills (like I used to have, although I have a good memory when it comes to standardized achievement). If you suspect your child is gifted, you will probably be right. Trust your intuition---it never fails.

Thanks Violet! She was MG according to WPPSI--but I suspect she is actually more towards HG and want to have another IQ test before we move...not PG--I am amazed at the anecdotes here and would love to meet some of these children!

I think she likes standardized tests, even though she has just done it once--when the Duke TIP stuff came in the mail and I told her it meant she would get to take the explore test to get a truer picture of what she knows she jumped up and down and said "yipee!" lol! I liked taking standardized tests as a kid--mostly I think b/c I finished early and could then read!

thanks again for the encouragement!

Lucky you! When I was in fifth grade, I was usually great at taking standardized tests, because I could read after that in fourth grade. My teacher, however, said that "finishing quickly was bad and that it would hurt others' feelings.")

I have been reflecting on my own time in school, and while it was less than challenging or satisfying, at least they did let me read! I shouldn't be but am shocked at how much I have seen the "hurt others' feelings" argument.

Nice to know I wasn't the only weirdo in school. :-) I loved test days - no listening to teacher drone on and time to read!

Welcome to the board deacongirl!

That's my oldest dd, too. She's the one who skipped 5th & she, too, was MG per earlier IQ testing, but seems much more HG per achievement and a lot of GT teachers personal opinions (lol). I, too, don't think that we are raising PG kids in this house.