I've heard the term "rage to master" to describe the ferocity with which a gifted child learns a topic. How do we (as a parent) distinguish this trait from the "special interest " type focus that can be associated with high functioning autism (formerly aspergers)?

My ds5 has made huge strides socially and emotionally in his first year of school, but we struggle with the amount of time he would like to spend learning whichever topic he has chosen for the month(s). He is my oldest, so I am not sure how "normal " his behavior is, or if smart kids just get hooked on an area.

He is currently interested/obsessed with presidents. He reads many books about them, but has a particular fascination for numbers/dates of the presidents. For each president, he knows: the month/day/year of birth and death, term of office, vice president(s) with often years of birth/death, First Lady often with year of birth/death, nicknames or given names, random facts. He can sort all of this information and apply it to different settings. Prior to this focus, he learned everything he could about the solar system ((including a crazy recollection for all the statistical data associated with each planet).

I am having trouble reconciling how this amount of numerical data could be stored in long term memory without there being something "wrong". When I voice concerns to his pediatrician, he doesn't seem at all concerned about it. Many parents on here may have raised a similar child, I would appreciate any feedback.

I have a PG and an HG and neither do this. Their friend with ASD1 does. I have heard on boards that lots of gifted kids do though and my kids didn't read early either.

My DS5 is obsessed with all things animal. He knows excruciating detail about a variety of species and their habitats, due to endless research. He has some spectrum-like characteristics because he has DCD/dyspraxia, including hand-flapping when very excited and some sensory issues. However, no one (teachers, school psych, pediatrician, neurologist, SLP) seems to think he has ASD, as he is very good socially with one-on-one interactions with both adults and other kids. Interactions with large groups of kids are not his forte, I think in part due to anxiety. He is in a social skills program for group dynamics and dyspraxia-related issues like difficulty judging personal space. We have a plan for a neuropsych eval at 6 to better delineate his 2e issues for school. I would say I'm only about 95% sure he does not have ASD; I totally understand not being sure with what lens one should view certain behaviors. I may be in the minority view here, but I would argue that if he is happy and thriving you don't need to know right now. If he starts struggling somewhere (school, socially, etc), then it may be the time to start looking for answers. Having the dyspraxia diagnosis HAS been helpful in helping our DS with motor issues, or dealing with school issues like difficulty packing up all his stuff at the end of the day, but those were real out-of-the norm challenges impacting his functioning. If your son's rage to master is a positive experience for him and he is not having trouble getting along in other aspects of his life, I would not go looking for a diagnosis for a "disorder".

This is not professional advice. Our ODS was somewhat similar, although he didn't express his knowledge in such a classified manner. He still remembers and can offer up substantial amounts of information about various dinosaurs. It's been about five years since that was his passion (or one of them). Our YDS, who is much more easygoing, can recite and reclassify endless PokeMon information (and will, whether or not anyone is listening).

I personally might worry less about the fact that he does this and look more to how he does with family life, friends, etc. (Allowing for the variation that is normal with gifted kids.) Is this getting in his way, or just something he does?

Keep in mind that there may not be enough material otherwise at school to keep him occupied...

My particular kids don't, but among my first-hand circle of GT acquaintance of all ages, I know several who have had fascinations (cars, planes, buses, aquatic animals, dinosaurs, dogs, sports, etc.). I also know a few information omnivores, who don't so much have a rage to master a particular topic, as have a huge thirst for any kind of knowledge. Some of them are on the more reserved or socially-awkward end of the temperament spectrum, and others are more social. I have seen almost all of them socializing in a reasonably age-appropriate way when in the presence of intellectual peers who can keep up with the rate of their information processing, and appreciate their store of knowledge, even if they don't share a common fascination.

I'm not sure I can be any help as I have a DS7 who IS diagnosed with ASD, but I don't agree with the diagnosis. So nothing clear cut is going to come from me! But I can share our experience.

DS has always been the sort to get really into one thing or sometimes a few things at a time. When he was an infant he wanted the same favorite books over and over. Near 1 he was into colors and shapes, after that construction vehicles (and he knew everything about them, not just the type), around 18 months it was numbers and letters, just before 2 he learned all of the frogs and butterflies we could find books on. After that he was into learning to read, but once he learned he was no longer interested, he didn't sit down and really enjoy reading until about 2 years later (although he still loved listening to us read)! We went through Lego obsession and marble runs and mazes (he loved to do them, but mostly he enjoyed designing them). And around 4 he switched gears from being more into words and letters and got really into math. He carried his math workbook with him everywhere for about a year and then promptly lost all interest in math again for another year (but he got back into math again in a big way and still loves it).

He always was able to easily remember numbers and seems to place more importance on them than pretty much anyone else would. We can watch a movie together and later he will say something like "I like that movie, there are 6 scenes with a cat in them." He will also say things like "I want to watch movie x because it's only 108 minutes long and we have an appointment in two hours." I'm wondering how or why he knows the length of the movie, lol. Just today he told me that on the 4th day of March something or another (it was in the car, I didn't fully hear him) happened on the cosmic calendar and I realized he was talking about Cosmos. Now, I remember the cosmic calendar and I remember about when things happened on it's representation of the course of world history, but I would never have remembered the exact dates they mentioned on the show like DS does. But then numbers don't have all that much meaning to me and are not an area of interest.

Right now DS is really into geography and wants to constantly quiz us on info on his maps. He also spends a lot of time just looking at them and talking about capitals and such. He has a talking globe and he loves to listen to the distance between places, while I prefer to listen to the music from the different countries! I think that makes me more normal

DS is in no way NT though, he has ADHD and TS and is gifted (and is too close to call on ASD), so he won't fall into a neat group for compare and contrast purposes. He is doing great though and socially he has come a long way since starting treatment for ADHD.

I will say that I started voicing concerns to our pediatrician about DS at 10 months and we were told not to worry (well, technically I was concerned since he was born as he cried more often than not for about 14 months straight). At our checkup at 2 I mentioned DS was lining things up. That got us an evaluation at 2.5 and an ASD diagnosis. I mean, my kid was weird. He did all sorts of things that concerned us and amazed us, but there was no alarm at the pediatrician until we mentioned that one behavior. He continued to line things up until 3, then the behavior was gone. My point is, ASD or not, something was clearly wrong with DS, but the pediatrician was no help. I did not realize it at the time, but we could have contacted early intervention at any time, we didn't have to wait for our pediatrician to refer us or anything. I would definitely suggest that you see a developmental pediatrician if you are concerned. Maybe they tell you it's nothing and you can stop worrying, or maybe they tell you it's something and you can get your DS help now while he is still young.

He is a very happy child, and loves school. He is making slow but significant improvements socially (he is one of the youngest in his class). We aren't running towards a diagnosis, but seeking to more fully understand how to best support him. I figure he is the same kid with or without a label; we would only seek if it leads to extra help. He will be able to do 1 day gifted pull out next year, as well as speech and a social flexibility group.

At what age was your child's asd diagnosis removed, and what age is he now? I am far from an expert in early child learning, but my son appears to be pretty flexible with the information that he has learned. The pieces build upon each other and he can answer questions that force him to manipulate the data out of the original form in which he learned it.


I think initially it is just to learn because it is interesting, but then he will "draw" numbers and figures as a calming/relaxation technique. His teacher has sent home pages and pages of presidential date ranges.


Could you list a few examples of unique aspects/challenges?

This section sounds a lot like my child. What are the best things that you have found to help support his development?

This is so familiar... keeping us on our toes... and tired!

We definitely are dealing with this. My wife and I have to be careful about what we tell him we will do, because he remembers every "promise". My son can definitely do complex calculations in his head, but he can't walk me through his thought process. I've never had him do any math worksheets, but I can ask him seemingly impossible math questions (for a 5 year old) and he rattles off the answer. (E.g. 5*5*5*5*5) with little hesitation. If I briefly explain a math concept (like percentages) and give 2 examples, he extrapolates it to more problems. I pulled back from asking math questions, because I felt he was staying 'in his head' too much, and we are trying to assist more social development.

Hmm, how did we support DS's development... since it's something we do all the time it's a little hard to list out specifics. Early on we did a lot of PT and OT because he had sensory issues (mostly resolved) and was delayed in coordination (jumped a year late, can't peddle bike, can't tie shoes, etc.) All of that helped a great deal and even though he isn't totally typical in those areas, we no longer feel that he needs therapy.

We get DS outside as much as possible. It helps to get him out of his head a bit and tires him out so that he gets closer to the amount of sleep that he needs. While he is outside his favorite activity is sidewalk chalk and he creates elaborate concepts like a 2D representation of a 3 dimensional maze globe or he makes a representation of a Rube Goldberg machine or he likes to write out the periodic table or draw current favorite molecules. This is not what I want him doing outside, so I have to be with him to encourage batting or climbing or riding scooter. But he is easily able to do the things that I suggest if I do them with him. Also, he has a gifted ASD buddy from school who has come over a few times and they do the periodic table and science experiments together outside and really enjoy each other's company/carry on beautiful, polite, mature conversations about what they are doing. DS also loves to play with the neighbors and he will even play kickball with them quite nicely, even though he doesn't like sports. It used to be that he would just sit outside and read or do a workbook in the shade, now he is really playing and acting like a kid (at least some of the time) and I would say this is the single biggest thing that we do for DS, require at least an hour outside after school each day and 4 hours on the weekend, weather permitting. He often chooses to stay out even longer and sometimes doesn't want to come in to eat dinner!

When not outside we just support his interests and also practice social skills while having fun. We play a lot of board games and do a lot of puzzles together. This is a great way to practice not grabbing materials, waiting for your turn, casual conversation while engaged in a mutual activity, etc. We usually only do this when DS is medicated as he otherwise tends to end up knocking everything over and/or annoying everyone to the point where we all quit and then he gets upset and gets in trouble and ends up in his room.

When he is inside and not medicated we usually let him do what he wants to do and use that time for his hour of screen time. He tends to like to draw fractals and math stuff, so we give him a lot of paper and some markers (and feign interest in what he is doing, lol). If he watches a show about something, he usually immediately wants to represent it in some way on paper and explain it to us. I read to him a lot, even when he doesn't seem to be listening (I know that he is because he can talk about what I read even if he spent the whole time running around and talking over me about a completely different idea). He loves "funny books" which obviously varies from kid to kid, but for DS it includes the Ramona books, stuff by Dahl, and those horrible weird school books. If a character is "bad" he finds it beyond hilarious. I'm not sure that is a good sign, lol.

Overall I would say that we let DS be DS, except that we are always pushing him to expand who he is while respecting who he currently is. Just this year he started closing the car door when he gets out of the car, this was something we celebrated. I mean, he did it before, but not unless I reminded him. We have a lot of things like that coming together right now. I see it as him coming out of his head a bit and paying attention to the rest of the world. Obviously for my DS, having severe ADHD and all, medication was a big help, but also just years of practice and experience are finally paying off. He just doesn't seem to pay attention to the mundane in life. It must be a really interesting place in his head!

DS is a very social, loving, empathetic, and altruistic kid. He doesn't seem autistic at all anymore to me and people are very surprised if I tell them about his diagnosis. There is so little certainty though. I guess I would say I'm 75% certain he does not have ASD. Some professionals say they see it, some don't. I think you could see ASD in almost anyone if you were looking hard enough for it.

I do agree that once ASD is on a kid's chart you aren't going to ever get rid of it, I have been unsuccessful and I have been trying for years. I can't get a reevaluation either because it's a lifetime diagnosis. But you don't need a diagnosis for many therapies. Also, if a child really does have ASD the diagnosis is beyond helpful. All of my sons medical costs are covered 100% (including allergist and his 1:1 at school) and we are even eligible for free babysitting if we wanted it. The local museums and zoo have free entry days for kids on the spectrum and there are discounts and special programs for everything from swim lessons to karate. I don't regret getting the diagnosis and I think the therapies he received helped a lot. I don't even particularly mind except that I am sick of people reading ASD on his chart and making assumptions about him. They treat him like he can't understand what they are saying. They get all bent out of shape if he says his name or says hi to them. He feels insulted because they are praising him like a new puppy for following basic instructions.

My son has ASD, and was diagnosed when he was 5. He is 7 now. He does get obsessive in learning topics, and it's hard to know what part of it is ASD, and what part of it is gifted. We don't really worry about it too much. He gets ABA therapy at home, and it helps him with social skills, and we talk a lot with him about topics he's interested in, and he also reads a lot too.

Are you familiar with asynchronous development? It is not unusual for a gifted child to develop much faster than normal in some, but not all areas. For our ODS, this expressed itself in being somewhat socially "immature" until very recently (he's 10 now). Although he could handle schoolwork at an advanced level, he wasn't likely on "age-grade norm" level in some social aspects. This has changed as he's aged. Just something to consider, particularly if he's young for grade. You may be seeing quite normal social behavior when you take asynchronous development into account.

I just want to say a big thank you to everyone who shared advice and experience in this thread. It really helps to hear about some similar children. I can see through this thread that I identify my child much more in the 2e descriptions given. I will continue to read, research, and learn about these issues, and make sure we seek a definitive diagnosis of problems arise, or access to support is restricted.