By which I mean--is he or she likely to hold elected office of some kind in high school? Will he or she start something "big" as a student, in which he or she must lead others?

(My answer: no. My children are actually both relatively extroverted and fairly popular, but neither of them has the tendency to lead or organize. DD hates group projects.)

Unlikely. But also not followers.

Sometimes when you march to your own drummer, you may find people marching alongside of you. Take independent decision making, any degree of perfection mix in a group activity and you can find yourself leading. The problem with perfectionism is avoiding the paths of diminishing returns. It seems many successful leaders have instincts of when to pull the trigger.

I could see DS accidentally leading or even intentionally leading, but can just as easily see him being a follower. Interesting to watch and think about.

I think leading is sometimes seredipity. I would not consider myself a leader, I am rather independent. But in HS,after the regular boys season, the grade 12 girls would get the football team shoulder pads, helmets and shirts and play another school in a powderpuff game. The year before we did it, a girl got injured, so they told us we couldn't play. I pushed the agenda, the newspapers came to cover it. I went to the board and some women groups got behind it. Then they left it up to the county PE teachers who said only if we got expensive breast plates. Instead, being a figure skater, I knew the people at the main rink, on the only Friday, our big Canadian local team was not at home, they let me have the rink. So guys at school lent us equipment, we challenged another school, my brother and his friend reffed and we sold tickets for $0.25 to pay for the party. A lot of people came since the local big hockey team usually played and stayed anyway. The seats were packed and it was rather hilarious because many of the girls did not play well. One girl in pigtails and pink ribbons got in a fight with another similarly dressed (mostly cheerleaders on these teams). I got coverage and I got a scholarship from the Masons. Not planned.

Yes, that might possibly happen with my kids, especially DD, who is an idea person. However, I don't know if I see her following through if she had to organize groups of people. I could see her doing things like making calls, going to a board, etc. She has initiative and creativity. People skills...not as much.

I accidentally ended up in charge of something sort of huge recently on a local level. It was very intimidating to me, and I hated it about 80% of the time, but for various reasons, I was the person most qualified. We succeeded in our efforts. I never want to do anything like that again--but the problem is that now people think I do.

I'd would say of my two girls, DD8 has a better chance of being a leader. DD8 has a great capacity for being social and likes to be in charge (and yes can sometimes be bossy). She is very good in group situations and kids tend to listen to her. I've also seen her taking directions from other peers and you can visibly tell how uncomfortable she is and you know her gears are turning thinking about what she would rather they be doing. The key here is that she goes along with it until the time is right to jump back in control.

On the other hand, DD9 doesn't like group work and would rather do things by herself or with another capable partner. In a partner situation I could easily see her being the leader and not have any issues giving her opinion and pushing her own agenda. DD9 doesn't have the social skills that DD8 has and most times could care less about others and what they think/believe. DD9 could be a leader if she wanted to, but it just isn't her thing. Of course she doesn't have any problems trying to be the leader when it comes to her and her little sister. Little sister does have a problem with this!

I agree with what some others have previously said - They aren't followers by any means, but not out right leaders either and I'd say more often them leading would be more situational or accidental.

Bingo. This is both me and my DD-- to a tee.

We've both got great communication skills and we're good organizers and problem-solvers, which makes us well-qualified to "lead" but the introversion and divergent thinking parts of things mean that we find it both exhausting and frustrating to do so.

DD much prefers to be the a leader's "right-hand (wo)man." I'm a power-behind-the-throne person myself. We both seriously shy away from the spotlight, but are happy to direct or run the stage crew from the wings.

we've spent nearly 6 years trying to make it clear to DD5 that simply organizing and directing what everyone else should do is NOT the same as leading everyone in a game.

i'll give her the fact that she's generally got good ideas, but allowing a natural-born dictator to flourish is just! not! on!

No.. I suppose it's possible DS14 could become section leader in marching band. Or an office in some sort of club. But student government holds zero interest for him. He is introverted and really not much of a leader.

This - my DS. So much so that he (in reference to his independent behaviour) was mentioned several years ago in the school newsletter as an example of an alternative form of leadership.

Ds9 is a leader in the making. He has confidence and speaks up. His actual skills in leadership are hit and miss depending on if the group was self selected or selected by the teacher.

Yes ... both differently but the answer for now would be Yes. DS5.5 demands to be followed. And if people don't want to follow, he puts serious effort into explaining why they do need to follow him and do what he says. He won't take NO for an answer.
DS3.10 doesn't request being followed verbally but you understand it from his behavior. It's either you follow or too bad, I'm definitely not following you either. But he doesn't want the attention that DS5.5 craves. You just KNOW he's in charge and he knows it too.
It will be interesting seeing them both in 5-10 years as their personalities either change or get more intense.

My problem with leadership is that I dislike small talk, schmoozing, gladhanding, and blah blah blah. I also hate inefficiency and drama. In the community effort I mentioned, people were DRIVING ME NUTS with their inability to focus and get things done and get their egos and personal nonsense out of the way. Now I sound sort of Aspergers-y, but I have the social awareness to know that I have to keep all this frustration inside and deal with all the emotionality and put out the fires. But really, people. Be adults. Get over it. Fix it and move on.

Uh, so yeah. This is exactly why I'm not a boss.

No, my child is too much of a people pleaser to be a leader. Follower through and through.

One of the things that annoys me is the tendency of teachers to "anoint" popular children even in elementary school. There are kids who get chosen for the best play parts, leadership roles in class, etc. and those who don't.

Teachers could do a really great thing by cultivating leadership more broadly, but they are often stuck in the mentality of their own schooling. Not all, but many.

Just picked up my kid from school. They sit near some classrooms on the sidewalk while they wait for car pick up. My son sat with his back to the cars and no less than ten kids around him hanging on to his every word. They all said bye to him in unison when I called for him out my window. I know that can be more "popular" and not so much "leader" but he moved into that class a month into the school year when we skipped him and he tells me enough about things that go on at school that I know he dabbles in leadership. At least the skip was fine socially.

He tells a good story, is a good conversationalist, he tries to get everyone to be good and do his/her best, and to have fun. I would follow him.

ha - and THIS is probably why you would make a fantastic one!

Yes. They choose popular children who are socially gregarious and extroverted, often strongly so, and generally those who are good athletes as well as moderately good (and highly compliant) teacher-pleaser students. It seems that these children are generally chosen from the 80th-95th percentile ranks in terms of classroom performance.

I've seldom seen the 2e kids, the dreamy ones, the introverts with all of the answers, or the prickly children get chosen this way. No matter how much they have to offer.

In my work with youth (as a volunteer) I go out of my way NOT to ignore such overlooked youngsters. Just because they are quiet doesn't mean that they don't have a lot of potential.

Thank you for saying this--I had exactly the same response after trying
to join both our neighborhood church (mainly for DD's benefit, as she
enjoyed the choir) and also a local flyball group (dog fun!). Most of
the personal interaction seemed to revolve around who would be IN CHARGE
and griping about decisions other people had made. I can get plenty
of that at work, thank you very much. Very disappointing.

Me too to a lot of this. I avoid being in charge if at all possible but I will if I am best qualified. I just have no desire to tell people what to do - I won't follow brainlessly either and am perfectly prepared to disagree or leave.

Yup.

I feel fortunate that DD is in classes with a bunch of other square gifted pegs, so she doesn't stand out as much as she would as prickly/tricky/difficult. But except for those few adults who really enjoy her (they do exist), she will miss out on the teacher perks.

OTOH, DS is frankly a teacher and staff favorite. He is athletic, and a natural "clown" and dancer (DD has no rhythm and is rather awkward, though she now is okay athletically, though not good). They give him good behavior tickets for breathing. MY DAUGHTER NOTICES THIS. It is no help to her or to their relationship. Eventually it will be no help to him, either.

I agree.

My pet theory on politics is we're doing it wrong when we allow people who want a given job to pursue it. Wanting it should be the first disqualifier. We should be selecting people who don't want it, and then foisting it on them.

If you want it, you're likely seeing it as an opportunity. If you don't, you're likely seeing it as a responsibility.

Exactly, Dude.

I have taken on leadership positions (repeatedly) in my life solely because if I didn't do it, the person who wanted to would have had a clear field... and it would have been a disaster of epic proportions.

DD's run for office was engendered by the exact same considerations. She won, and the loser promptly vanished. No skin in the game, apparently, for that type if they aren't "heading" whatever it is. {sigh} They're all about the prestige and perks, and not at all about the job and serving those you're "governing/leading."

Ultramarina, my first two kids are likely to fall well into the ranks of dreamy, quirky, introverted kids who don't get picked for things... Little miss 3yrs old though - will be like your son, she's a teacher's wet dream... We've commented more than once that she's going to rule the world one day.

I think DS is likely to hold elected office in high school -- he's already been VP of student council in middle school. But it comes hard for him, and he'd far rather be dictator instead. I have no idea where the drive to be elected to things comes from, in him -- I wouldn't have guessed it.

Now, whether he can hang onto the office after he gets it, that's the question.

Yes, DS7 is a natural leader. He can relate to anyone and can lead any group of kids - even kids who are a good bit older than him. He is funny and charming and finds almost no social situation intimidating. He organizes kids in the playground and resolves disputes among warring factions. Everyone listens to his recommdations and rulings.

That said, I don't know if he would actually want to run for office in HS. I think he wants to do his thing and lead others when the situation presents itself.

Interesting question. I think that the qualities that make a child a "leader" actually changes with the age of the child and also varies somewhat by the culture inherent in the particular environment.

Personally, while it really is way too early to tell, I don't beieve my children will be leaders as grown-ups - not the right mix of character traits. As for high school, at age 10, I think it's also a bit early to tell. However, I can actually see DS holding office in high school as he has been fascinated by American politics and there have been situations where he has been roped into (not always happily) being the leader, either by the teacher or his peers.

Interestingly, the most recent report card extolled DD's leadership qualities. Her easy-going personality was one of the several attributing factors noted. In contrast, I have always felt that while her easy-going personality makes her likeable and popular, it also detracted from her leadership ability.

Perhaps it is the unusual situation of having twins in the same classes, but teachers seem to alternately find one twin or the other as a "leader". I have been told (though not in such negative terms) that DD rides on the coattail of DS' popularity one year and then DS depends on DD, who takes DS in hand socially the next year. The truth is properly somewhere in between and that they go through different phases.

This reminded me of recently reading this online article http://www.chicagonow.com/daily-bee...kids-myers-briggs-dont-like-the-results/

Well, and really-- Myers-Briggs isn't really all that to begin with. {sigh} There is surprisingly little actual validation behind it.

http://www.psychometric-success.com/personality-tests/personality-tests-popular-tests.htm

http://skepdic.com/myersb.html

http://www.denverpost.com/lifestyle...rsonality-test-embraced-by-employers-not


http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4221

Still I suppose it does give HR employees something to do all day...

LOL. I almost thought it was a joke, then reread it again. I would never bother giving my children this "test" much less try to reshape their personalities.

My judgment was based on observations - such as how put out DS was when he was unanimously chosen as team leader for an extracurricular last year. He didn't want to have to "hold hands" or resolve squabbles or have to be responsible for achieving consensus.

Interesting, DS & DD combined would make a heck of a good leader.

Please know that the article coming to mind upon reading the phrase about traits was not reflective of any thought that you may entertain the idea of reshaping your children in this way! It was a simple and random word association.

Probably. DS7 is what his teacher (bless her) refers to as "very social." I would say at times he has a bossy streak (he even tries it with us!). We will be coaching him, I suspect, for some time on how to be a good leader, to be respectful of other people and their styles and how to work with people to accomplish goals.

FWIW, I have held many leadership roles since mid-high school, despite my decided leanings toward introversion (I joke that I'm an introvert with too much leadership/interpersonal skills training). My mother, who is clearly gifted, maybe even PG, and more introverted yet, has headed church committees, school activities, etc., etc. for years, primarily because people understand that she knows what to do and how to work with them to organize it. She, on the other hand, has certainly tired of the political side of many groups.

So, I tend to judge leaders by their results, less than their style. If I am perfectly honest, I would say I am very leery of any who seem too gregarious and slick.