I am just wondering how everyone here has handled the communication of test results with the 'testee'.

For the record, we have not told our DD that she has a high IQ or anything like that. Instead, we have just told her that the time that she spent with the psychologist told us that she can learn anything that she wants to and that she should not set limits for herself.

We have striven to try not to make her big headed or establish an 'attitude of scorn' for school and teachers because we have read about the negative consequences of this.

How have others here dealt with this?

We kept it vague. I showed him roughly where he tested on the bell curve but I didn't mention numbers. In fact, when family members (other than dh) pressed for numbers I refused to give them. I don't even think ds understands what it means to be a Davidson Young Scholar other than it's a cool place where there are kids with similar interests.

My reason for being vague is that I didn't want him to identify with a number--a number that is most likely not fixed, and I didn't want him to get caught up in comparisons. When he's older, of course, I'll share the info.

Hell no! When my son has asked what his IQ testing was all about (at 6 years old), I told him that we were going to see a doctor (Ph.D) who specializes in understanding how children learn. That went into a full discussion of a Ph.D. vs. M.D. and that was pretty much the end of it. He loved the testing and of course never asked for any results or anything.

When we went back for achievement and 2E testing he had some more questions about the testing. I told him that she just needed some more information so that she could give us a better sense of the best way for him to learn. I also added, since he refuses to go to school on a regular basis, that she was going to help us figure out how to make learning more interesting for him - either at school or home.

I HAVE however mentioned to my son that he thinks and learns in a different way than other children. He actually has never heard us use the word 'gifted'. I told him about his learning differences when he was so very frustrated about school and the pace at which they go. After a few days of anger and tears on his part (refusing school, refusing assignments, wondering why the other kids are not angry about the repetitive nature of the work), it dawned on me that it might be very beneficial for him to understand HOW he is different than the other children with regard to learning. I just told him that some children can run really fast in gym class and they don't even have to practice. And some children can learn really fast in math class and don't have to practice. And some children have such a strong desire to learn that if they don't, it's like they can't breathe or eat. That's just the way his brain works. It was very, very helpful to have this discussion, for him. He stopped thinking that something was "wrong" with him.

FWIW - my mother told me my IQ "range" when I was about 9. IMO - not a good move. I spent so much time thinking about what it really meant, how I compared to other children, and (later) how much I was underachieving. She could have told me when I was much older. But I was quite pushy.

DD knows she is gifted because she goes to a gifted school with the word "gifted" in the name. We have never discussed the specifics of her test results. We have talked about how she learns fast, just as some kids sing beautifully, run fast, draw well, etc.

Not with DD6. We do tell her she's smart and clever and she thinks in interesting way and comes up with great ideas but we haven't specifically pointed out she's officially better at those things than most other people.

FWIW, I worried about the label being so blatant--it's a bit cringey-- but I don't notice any negative effects at all from that. If anything, DD is far more humble since coming to this school. She is around other very smart children and sees that she isn't the only one. Before, she'd started becoming a bit annoying about how other kids were soooo sloooooow all the time.

No, and I hate the term "gifted". "High potential" or "High ability" is better but I still won't use terms like that with my kids. Some people are very talented with art, music or sports (and many other things), but they have average IQ's. They are not "gifted"? I didn't tell DS anything at all about his testing, and with DD being in a "gifted cluster", I just told her that she's with kids who are advanced in reading and math and will do more challenging work. I wish schools would just put kids in the right level for their abilities without the "gifted" term. Do we really need a label? It just turns people off even talking about it. I was in "Honors" English in middle school, which basically consisted of kids with high verbal IQs or reading/writing achievement scores, but the name never implied much of anything at all about innate ability.

Some parents bring their (elementary school age) kids to gifted/talented meetings--for instance the school admin discussing the program or testing procedure to parents-- and it makes me cringe.

Blackcat, you make an interesting point. However, I do think people are more comfortable talking about gifted athletes, artists, musicians than whatever it is we choose to call those who are high ability learners (that sounds awkward, yuck). I personally have nothing against the term gifted as used here, other than being tired of all the negative reactions it creates.

To answer the question, we did not share results with DS7. We did tell him that he seemed to have answered all the tester's questions very well and that meant he would be able to participate in some extra activities (like weekend seminars) that would be fun. I rather suspect he will figure a lot of this out on his own, given how quickly he seems to be connecting other facts and theories.

No one puts a special label on gifted athletes, artists, etc. though like they do on people with high IQ's. If such labels did exist, they would probably turn people off in much the same way. It comes across as arrogant or bragging.

I use the term on forums like this where just about everyone is in that category, but will not use it with people not in the category. Or I will use it to describe the programs at school because that is what they are called there and there is no other term.

Agreed.

Athletic labels are much more awards based...Olympic gold medalist, Heisman trophy winner, Super Bowl MVP.

Categories such as elite gymnast, all star, all American, or first round draft pick are closer to the term gifted because they are less specific but give you the general idea of the level of the athlete.

People don't cringe at elite gymnast because you quickly know this is someone on the top level and not taking tumbling at the rec center once a week.

But could you imagine if elite was used instead of profoundly gifted...I'll stick with PG.

We've explained to DD about where she (probably) is on the distribution for cognitive ability, where her dad and I are, etc.

We have also avoided HAVING a number to "hide" from her, too, incidentally. We advocate for and treat her as the child we see in front of us, after all, and the number wouldn't change a thing.

Descriptions such as gifted musician or talented dancer are very much used. Gifted as we use it is really short for academically gifted. I think it would probably be better if we said that.

People have used the phrase academically advanced to describe DD and I prefer that over "gifted."

We 've told one kid and not the other.

We tested DD when she was 9 for 2e issues. She was already in the school gifted program and they talk openly about what it means to be gifted during their pull outs (in a very positive way, I'm thrilled), but she remains vague on the admissions criteria. To motivate the 2e testing, we discussed the hypotheses that the dr had about what was going on, and I described that the testing would tease apart the competing hypotheses. When the results came back, she had to have buy-in on the school services, so I walked her through the neuropsych report.

I never said intelligence, gifted, IQ or anything like that. I didn't show her the scores, but explained percentiles ("if you take 10,000 kids, your ability in this area would be in the top 10"), and we talked about the VIQ as "this is a measure of how well you think about and use words...", etc, so it pointed out the strengths and weaknesses, and got us the buy-in we needed. We also wrote our own home version of an IEP with her own goals, and what she and us as her parents would do to meet them.

DS was tested at 5 for speech and hearing assessment, and at 6 for a grade skip. He knows he's in the gifted program, he knows he's been skipped, and he just figured out how much younger he is than the next older kid in his gifted math class. He never asked his results, and we haven't provided. The context and age are enough different that I don't see what it would accomplish.

Mana, this is the phrase I usually use when there is a need to talk to others about DS who are outside the circle of people who have a similar child. I do think it can also apply to children who have benefited from significant extra learning or tutoring, which doesn't present all of the same challenges.

Funny story, though, I used the term academically advanced with a trusted colleague and he immediately said "so is he gifted, then?" It seems he has grown children who followed similar patterns, so he picked up on the code word.

We could hardly keep this to ourselves, as DD is in two daily pull-outs for the "gifted classes" with the "gifted teacher." This necessitated a lot of talk about what they mean by the term "gifted."

We didn't give her a number, but I did tell her that in a randomly-selected group of 100 kids her age, there would only be one kid who is as quick or quicker to learn than her.

To be honest, at this point we are trying not to tiptoe so much around the word, since as I've said, it's in the dang name of DD's school. I may wish it wasn't, but it is.

So now, when DD, say, absent-mindedly tries to screw the cap on something the wrong way, I might say, "All righty then, gifted child" and she'll roll her eyes, and we both laugh.

Also, as someone else said, it did help her sort of understand why she felt different. I have heard more than once that some children actually do believe they are stupid, or very strange, due to not understanding why they aren't so similar to other children they spend time with. You don't have to use the term "gifted" to have that conversation...but it's a shortcut. Also, some kids really need to be told that it's normal for other kids their age not to be able to (XYZ) yet and they shouldn't remark on it in noisy amazement. (Uh, that would be MY children.)

No. My twins are 6.5, and they know that they did a couple of activities last year during K with two different "teachers" to help us find ways to make school more challenging for them. Now they work with one of the those teachers (the gifted coordinator) on a regular basis. She is known as the ATP teacher at our school, and although they figured that out from the yearbook, they don't know what it means, and I have refused to tell them. Last week, one of them asked her what it meant, and she said "A Terrific Place."

They do know they are "ahead" of the other students because they noticed, and that because they work with the ATP teacher they get "harder" and "more challenging" work. They know what IQ is from reading books, and sometimes will say things like "My IQ must be at least 100!" I usually just agree that it is at least 100. I have told them that their brains allow them to learn some things more quickly than some other people, the same way that some kids are able to learn to play particular sports better than the other kids. I have tried to emphasize, though, that just because they can learn something more quickly doesn't mean that they will know it better than the person who spends more time learning it.

Frankly, I know they have seen books in my bedroom with "gifted children" in the title, so I wouldn't be surprised if they know the term and think that it applies to them.

we've tried so hard to stay away from labels, but after the crisis we had in Pre-K, some discussion with DD5 about what was happening was imperative. the phrase i've used with her (and, incidentally, any stray adults who ask) is that she's simply "out of step with her age peers."

it's a nice, non-threatening code!

I see two parallel discussions here.

One is to tell your kid the numbers.
The other is to tell your kid that he or she is gifted according to whatever metric you hold up.

I see these as different discussions here. The program in my kids' school is called "gifted," which necessitates that we use this word at least some. I initially balked at the gifted intervention teacher leading a discussion about what it meant to be gifted, but I can see that this discussion, held over 3 years time, did a lot of good for these kids. They understand who they are and why their experience is different, and they've also discussed positive ways to address these issues amongst their general ed peers.

In our house, we mostly refer to the gifted population as "kids who think like you do," or "kids who learn quickly like you do." Both kids see that they are different compared to the gifted cohort as well, at which point we've started the conversation of differences in strengths and weaknesses amongst the cohort.

We did not tell specific numbers when our ds was younger, but we did discuss where he was on the bell curve (and explained the bell curve lol) by the time he was in 3rd grade, because he was becoming frustrated with other children when it took them longer to grasp concepts than it did him or when he tried talking about things that they didn't understand. He was aslo frustrated with the pace of school as well as frustrated with his own inability to perform in some areas due to his 2e challenges - so explaining the test results in age-appropriate terms was extremely helpful and reassuring to him. Now that he's a teen, he's asked just recently to see his actual scores (this happened when we reviewed the recent link that HappilyMom posted that explains LDs - an excellent resource btw!). We are planning to look through the actual reports together at this point - he's mature enough as well as confident enough in his own skin at this point in time to see the numbers, and I don't have to worry about him running out on the playground and telling the world lol.

FWIW, I'll also add - he was getting a lot of comments from adults at a young age about how smart he was, and starting in kindergarten other kids in his class noticed and said things about how smart he was. So it's not like our kids are living in vacuums - they get feedback about their intellectual "gifts" from others whether or not we share test scores with them.

polarbear

Hard to completely dodge the concept as like with momoftwins, DS has seen at least one book about gifted kids in the house. He knows he did all sorts of testing (code word:fun puzzles) last year which led to his skip. Other than numbers, there isn't much room to dodge a sharp aware kid when he isn't being age-appropriately obtuse.

We watched the "Big Brain Theory" engineering competition, and they put up IQs for the contestants. So, some discussion there. But no, no number for him. I actually don't think we have a number I believe is quite right to tell him anyhow.

My main summary line with him is "you can be as smart as you want to put the effort into being."

One of the reasons I will not tell my kids they are "gifted" or "smart" is because research says this can actually be detrimental to kids and they perform worse. Kids do better when they are praised for effort rather than innate characteristics or labels such as "good", "smart", "talented", etc.
I like the book "Nurture Shock"--it describes the research and says not to over-praise kids or tell them how wonderful they are.

Yes, we told them, but they were in 7th grade. They also knew that the law in PA is if you have IQ >= 130, the school must provide gifted services. Additionally, they are expected to attend the yearly GIEP meetings, so pretty much impossible to hide it from them. They know kids at the HS and elsewhere who are PG (they are not), so while they know they are "smart", they know kids who are far smarter.

I think there's a difference here in the basic question though - I too don't believe in parading my kids around and proclaiming how smart (or athletic or beautiful or whatever) they are, and I wouldn't ever sit at the dinner table and tell my ds "Hey, you are smart!" just to build his self-esteem. That's different than sharing information honestly as kids ask about it. My ds, starting at around 5 years old, really wanted to know why other kids (and sometimes adults) didn't understand what he was talking about - it was frustrating to him, and a simple explanation of the different ways people can be smart, one of the ways he was smart, and where that ability was for him relative to most other kids really helped him feel at peace with what had been very frustrating. All kids are different, of course, but having that bit of age-appropriate knowledge about his own intellect didn't lead him to be unmotivated or perform poorly in school - he's always tried very hard in school - which I personally don't think is related to giftedness or to how he was parented or anything external at all - I think it is who he innately is.

I also think it's important to realize our kids *are* smart, so they're going to start seeing/feeling what that means even at an early age - as well as having other people (adults and children) tell them they're smart. Giving them some info that explains what their particular type of "smart" is in quantitative terms, like the bell curve etc, can help them navigate through understanding why they have people telling them they are smart and help them understand why they sometimes may feel a bit out of place among their same-age peers. I think if my ds could have skipped ages 3-10 or so, he wouldn't have needed to know what his scores are (for those reasons) because by the time he was 11 he had enough emotional maturity and intuition to figure out where he was on that bell curve all by himself. At 5, however, he didn't have the life experience or enough social interactions under his belt to understand that.

On a slightly different note, as a twice-exceptional teen who needs accommodations going forward in school, I believe that having knowledge of his test scores and what the ups/downs/discrepancies etc mean is really important.

polarbear

If the conversation is handled carefully, I can see what you are saying polarbear. But I think it should not be over-done and a discussion of effort is also in order, or the bell curve or IQ score is meaningless. Kids who are lower on that bell curve but more motivated may end up doing much better in the long run (and are truly the "gifted" ones in the end). Dh's brother was a national merit scholar and his mom was always talking about IQ scores of various people. Her national merit scholar ended up dropping out of college with various "F's" and "Incompletes" on his transcript and now he drives an ambulance part time after living with mom and dad til age 30.
Dh's brother was/is 2e and has ADHD. His mom was always using the ADHD to excuse laziness, underperformance and all kinds of behaviors. I hope to handle it much better (both of the "e's")in my own kids.

This is a great question. We never told our kids their IQ. The actual number can be misleading unless you really can put it in a context.

I tried to explain the concept of "gifted" to them, since the term would be used at school anyway, and tried to give it meaning, both in terms of what it means and does NOT mean. I wanted to make sure they knew that this did NOT mean they were more special than other kids, just that they had learning differences that required different learning instruction.

I went into this more in detail in a blog post, since it is such a complicated question for so many parents: http://giftedchallenges.blogspot.com/2013/06/what-to-say-to-your-gifted-childabout.html

Gail Post/ www.giftedchallenges.com

I prefer the two-pronged approach of praising and valuing effort *and* telling my kids they're wonderful and smart

Also, just putting it out there that gifted kids aren't necessarily academically advanced ...

We'll tell DD her "number" when she's older but at 6 it's not interesting or useful information for her. I also don't share her number with anyone especially friends with a gifted boy who seem to like to compare and contrast whenever they can

Madeinuk, I appreciate your approach! I think it is possible to share our joy in our children for their natural talents, for how we feel parental tenderness toward them (ex. wonderful) AND to give praise when they work hard at something.

ITA blackcat And of course, "much better" is so open to personal interpretation!

pbear

I think it's possible to explain giftedness, the concept of being a fast learner, etc without going overboard with "Oh, you're so smart!!!" all the time. That is, you can tell your child he/she has a high IQ without constantly praising for intelligence in isolation from effort, which is what the Dweck/NurtureShock findings are about, IIRC.

And again, I do think you don't want to go too far the other way and make the whole thing super hush-hush, like The Subject Which Cannot Be Named.

I think it's a common mistake to use mindset theory to argue against acknowledging giftedness (because if you tell them they're smart they'll be scared to take risks and not value effort). But NOT acknowledging and accommodating giftedness has equal (or greater!) potential for causing "mindset" issues. The answer, in my mind, is to identify, accommodate needs (ensure that the child needs to actually make an effort so there is some effort to experience and praise!) and also to choose words wisely and based on your own situation. We have no gifted program so can avoid the word, for us it's about "thinking differently" "learning differently/faster" etc.

DS is 6 and has no context for IQ, so we have not shared numbers, nor do I plan to share them... although the range will come up, I'd imagine at some point, especially if we take advantage of some of the DYS programs or other such opportunities.

The second part of this thread hits home for me, for two reasons:

(1) Being way ahead of classmates, I was always a bit confused/frustrated when I was young and DS certainly has that side. (I should say had that side, as our conversations have led him to be more understanding of those differences. For example, just before 2 he would often plead with his age-mates to "stop talking like babies and talk like 2 y.o.s!" This endeared us to other parents.) Talking about how he learns more quickly, remembers things with little effort, etc. has been our approach and is concrete enough for him to understand.

(2) Although the school has no gifted program, when assessing DS they have been very open with him about his abilities, in ways I would not have been. (For instance, he was told after an out-of -level math assessment in K that he had performed better than all the 3rd graders and all but 4 of the fourth graders. I was upset they'd told him. He took it in stride. Knowing the tests had been to help find a better fit, as he'd been going to 1st for math and that wasn't enough of a challenge, he said something about how now we knew that at least 4th grade was where he needed to be.

I've been struggling with why there Is a stigma in talking about academic ability, especially as I notice my own desire to be discrete and, also, see how the lack of openness contributes to the lack of resources on our area. (How can the district openly discuss the need, if the system doesn't acknowledge outliers?)

Athletics are treated differently --for instance the freshman who goes all-state and is a hero in his community. Or my son, if he'd been able to run faster than all the fourth graders, would it have made me uncomfortable if someone had told him that directly? I'd expect if he could run fast or jump really high, a teacher upon discovering that might say to the whole class, "Watch this! I've never seen a 6 y.o. jump this high! Do it again! Can you go any higher?" If only genuine ability, no matter the area, could excite everyone in such pure ways. But it isn't received that way, and so I am more cautious.

As much as I want teachers to know, I downplay it to everyone else... including him. (Need to find the right balance.) Interestingly, DS' peers perceive his gifts with enthusiasm -- aware of his differences and excited for him in an innocent way. It's the parents' responses to their own children's observations that are more mixed... and that worry me. When I imagine the next few years, I want him to be aware of his intellectual strengths and to develop strength of character to match.

Now that I see it in print -- that's more than I realized I had to say.

And, Gail, just read your post -- well done! Sums up many of the things we've tried to cover with DS, even down to the commenter who speaks from a similar faith perspective.

GailP-
Thanks for your link. It is worded very simply and honest. I think this will be quite helpful in talking to my ds6.

To me, the difference is what you're communicating when you tell a kid, "You're so smart!"

- "You know a lot of things." - When a child confuses high ability with knowing things, anytime they run into a challenge, they decide they're a fraud.

- "You learn very quickly." - This message is about potential skills, not acquired skills, and as such teaches a child that they have the ability to excel... if they put in the effort.

One is a healthy message, and one is not. The first child will wilt on discovering a challenge, where the second will be fortified to persevere, confident that they can rise to the challenge.

Yes, this about the enthusiasm and innocence of children.

When my son learned four weeks into school we were going to place him from third to 4th, starting the next day, it was a bit overwhelming to him. I drove him into school and walked him in that day (we usually drop off without parent getting out) to hand him over to the guidance counselor to facilitate the move. As we were waiting for the gait to open, DS told one of his classmates that we ran into. The classmate said with great big bug eyes, "Wow!" Pause as he processed it. Then said, "That will be good for you!" The other kids know and they don't need an IQ score to know. Six words said it all and were just the right words for my ds to hear.

It seems like I am an outlier here. But I am going out on a limb here.

I probably need to explain. Have anyone told your kids about how much money you make? Most likely not. Then, how could you explain how important the hard work and education is? Last year, my DD then 8 asked how much I make and I answered it. Now, she is mature like a typical teenager. It was a teaching point as well and I explained about what profession makes about how much and stressed that she has to like what she would be doing. And that was for her information only and she should not be sharing with anyone unless necessary. And she didn't.

She did NNAT at 5 and OLSAT at 8 at different schools for admission to gifted program and she was aware of it that she is gifted (she asked me what is gifted last year and I explained including bell curve and SD although I gave her SD only).

This summer, she did WISC IV to qualify for DYS. Before application, I aksed her opinion on joining DYS and she asked her result. I gave her the result and she said "cool". I know she won't brag about it among her friends. I explained to her that having high IQ is like having big muscle. If you practice, you could become olympic weight lifter. If you don't, it will be useless (she argued she may be able to work for moving company and command the pay of two persons instead of one :-)

High IQ is innate ability. We celebrate achievement (positive reinforcement) at our house and not IQ. I do not go around announcing others but we do have her awards hanging in our study (just like people displayed their sports trophy). But we do put them away when we have some visitors (you know what kind of people I am talking about).

I believe it is OK to let the kids know especially if they are mature enough. It hasn't changed my DD. If anything, she is more tolerant and understanding when kids in her class slow to completing their tasks.

^ +1 Love this.

No- but DS is six. I do however, tell him the results of his achievement tests because it's something he has earned (not innate). He's come home and stated that the other kids at school tell him "he's the smartest kid in the class." I continue to reinforce that "the harder he works, the smarter he'll become!"

We don't let the grass grow under our feet- if the school doesn't challenge him, we work on challenging material at home. DS needs to develop patience and good habits, which won't happen if he's breezing through school without effort.

We have not told our kids their IQs, and have no intention of doing so, for a variety of reasons. They are all in the "challenge" program (our district doesn't specifically call it the gifted program, but quite honestly all the kids know that it is), so they know they are gifted. When they were tested, we talked about it being an evaluation to see if they were a good match for the program. My kids are pretty competitive with one another and I'd hate for IQ to be yet another thing they argue about, especially since they are all quite bright. But my oldest is the one that gives the impression of being the brightest, when in fact his IQ is the lowest of the 3. He just happens to be particularly bookish and inquisitive, but it would crush him to think he wasn't as "smart" as his siblings.

Funnily enough, DH and I didn't know our own IQs until our oldest was tested -- that's when our parents told us what our IQs were. We were both in gifted programs, so we had some sense, just not an actual number. But we're more or less a family of "moderately gifted" so once you know you fit the "gifted" criteria, there's not much more to glean from the actual number. Except for my youngest, who could be DYS if we felt the need for those services.

NotSoGifted -- Interesting, we are also in PA and our kids are not included in their GIEP meetings. (But my oldest is only in 6th, so maybe when they are older they will be included, but I don't think that's the case in our district.)

My DD knew the results of her IQ test as she opened the letter, it was addressed to her. We had her tested as she was always told by the teachers at the end of the school year that she was really bright but as she was now moving up there was nothing they could do about it.
She told no-one until one rather annoying "bright" boy was bragging he was so close to joining Mensa, but didn't quite make it, and he was obviously the brightest in the school. My DD turned to him and told him that Mensa was not that great and she had left it, apparently the look on his face was priceless. (she was 16 at this point)
I think we do our kids a mis justice sometimes and they can sort themselves out

We have not told our son what his IQ scores are and never plan to do so. He has seen the word gifted in the material that I read as well as it being mentioned and asked us what it means. We simply told him that it applies to kids who use their smarts and hardwork to achieve great results - and he believes us.

He frequently tells us that he is trying to be "gifted"' by being careful in his work and being hardworking and it is cute to watch

Thanks, mama2three and Melessa

I think the dilemma when deciding to share an IQ score with a child is that they cannot understand the context and what the testing really means. Older children may be able to understand means and SDs, but they cannot understand the nuanced interpretations of subtests on an IQ test. They cannot grasp that a fine motor deficit, for example, could lower the Full Scale score significantly, or how asynchronous development can affect social judgment, and result in a lower subtest score. They cannot understand that motor speed really isn't THAT important compared to spatial skills (even though it carries equal weight as a score), and that their mood, hunger, and rapport with the psychologist on the day of testing can impact their score.

These are reasons I have been reluctant to share scores with my children. They know they are gifted. They know this does not make them any more special than any other child - just that they learn differently. But I don't plan on telling them their IQ scores.

Gail Post/ www.giftedchallenges.com

Gail, do you feel that older children can't understand the nuances re how fine motor skills effect scores etc? How "old" - are you talking about teens or younger? I am just curious, as our ds13 has recently shown an interest in seeing his IQ scores and we did make the decision to share them with him - not because we felt he needed to know his FSIQ etc, but because we felt he is capable of understanding, and also because as he enters his teens it's time for us as parents to move from being his strong on-the-front-lines advocate to being his quiet support from behind the lines so that by the time he's on his own at college he's independently advocating for himself. Knowing what his IQ profile looks like and understanding how his disabilities impact scores is a key to advocating any time those set of scores are used for any types of educational decision. His interest in knowing his scores came out when we read a document that was put together to help children and teens understand LDs as a first step in learning how to become a self-advocate. At his age, for a high-IQ kid (with a challenge), having that talk and looking at discrepancies in scores etc and explaining how different types of disabilities impact the scores was something he really could understand. We've also had many discussions through the years about relative importance (in the grand scheme of things, as well as in daily life) of fine motor skills vs visual-spatial skills (he's challenged in fine-motor and very much a visual-spatial thinker)... but the reality is that even though the fine motor doesn't define him, it is a part of who he is and a part of what he lives with every day.

Anyway, I just mostly wondered if you meant to refer to young children when you said that the children can't understand the nuances of how disabilities are reflected in the scoring.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I was tested during the middle of elementary school. It was a part of some relative's graduate work. My brother and my cousin were tested too. Apparently I was the underdog in the family betting pool on who would have the highest score. It was quite the upset when I beat them by about fifteen points. So I heard my score and the scores for my brother and cousin.

I don't remember telling my friends at school. I think NKOTB and Ninja Turtles were far more interesting to my classmates at the time.

Despite my family's carelessness in handling this situation, we all turned out fine. For those that define "fine" with degrees earned - (Brother, MD, Cousin, MBA and Me, JD) and for those with a more general definition of "fine", we are all happy people in stable relationships working in careers we enjoy.

The message I got out of it was "You are smart enough to do whatever you want. So if you aren't a successful person doing whatever it is you want to do, it is your own fault for not trying hard enough because you have the ability"

I am not promoting what my family did as the way to handle this. I just wanted to share what happened to me.

Last spring (a year post testing) I showed DS7 the bell curve chart his psychologist had prepared to illustrate his WISC index scores. I did so because his school frustrations had left him anxious, demoralized and holding a negative view of his abilities. Going over the significant gap between his PSI and other scores helped him understand his challenges. Explaining the bell curve and pointing out where his other scores sat on it helped him see his potential. Sharing that information had an immediate, positive, effect on him. It wasn't necessary to give him hard numbers, but I may well do that as he matures if I think the specific data will help him in either advocacy or awareness.

We take a hard line with both DCs on being smart not making you all that. Working hard, challenging yourself and using your smarts are what count.

We also routinely reinforce being mindful of the feelings of classmates who may learn more slowly. A review of that with DD5 was necessary recently after she chortled about the ease of classwork to the entire class (which did not appear to share her view). Interestingly, DS7 jumped in and started explaining the bell curve to her, where he sat, that she likely sat there, too, and what that meant for her learning speed. It was awesome!

My older son got a perfect score on the 7th grade reading portion of the Florida high stakes NCLB test FCAT. He constantly (since 6th grade) walks around the house muttering how easy the test is. I constantly repeat to him that he is to keep those opinions to himself because NOT EVERYONE FINDS IT EASY!!!! and it is rude to say that where someone who is just getting by or struggling can hear you say that. We go over and over the fact that many of the students are English Language Learners or their parents were so that there already puts them at a disadvantage and then it just snowballs year after year. Not everyone finds reading easy or enjoyable. Not everyone has had his advantages. Eventually, maybe he will get it.

Polarbear, I would never say it's "wrong" to share the IQ score. Each family has to decide what is best for their child.

My concern is with the actual number, because I think it can be confusing for a lot of children, even teens. Most already know that "giftedness" is typically identified by an IQ of 130 or higher. But whether they have an IQ of 131 or 151, it still may be hard for them to sort out. It's kind of like telling your child your income. Most teens have great difficulty putting salaries and income in perspective, since anything above minimum wage sounds fabulous to them:).

On the other hand, sharing discrepancies in abilities as identified by testing can be very helpful, and validates their own experience. This is especially true for a 2e child. The best aspect of testing is its ability to provide information about differences in abilities. This information is helpful to everyone involved. I know that discussing this information was very helpful for one of my kids who had very discrepant subtest scores.

I am also so impressed with how many parents on this forum work hard to teach their gifted children tolerance and empathy toward other children.

Gail Post/ www.giftedchallenges.com

Gail,

It really depends on the attitude and maturity of the kid (recipient) and how we deliver the message. When you just give the number, it does not mean much but when you compare with different variables and examples, the kids would understand especially our kids.

When someone says Antarctica is cold, many kids will agree and leave it at that. Many of our kids want to know how cold (lowest temperature) and what kind of animals survive and how.

When the kids understand more about their own giftedness, they (hopefully) will gain more humility and empathy.

In our state, the 7th graders are encouraged to go to state website that discuss different careers (what they do, how much education they need and how much they make). They should have some idea of what they want in life so that they can choose extra HS courses (especially for AP classes, etc..). So, the kids at teenager maturity will learn how much you make on their own (if they want to with the google a click away). When you compare how much you make in your profession against other profession that they know, that information hits home. And when you talk about how often (each profession) can go to restaurant, what kind of car they can buy, house etc.., the message get acrossed. (It is kind of unfair because I have seen so many people buying the houses and cars they barely can afford).

It is great when a child is motivated by knowing that their efforts matter and can have positive impact on results.

At the same time it is sad to see a system built upon identifying children's giftedness by results attained (output/achievement), rather than a way of being (input/processing). Unfortunately, the system fails to identify and support many gifted children, because the system may not be attentive to true identifiers but rather only seek out those who may be careful and hardworking in their academics... therefore the system may treat eligibility for gifted programs/services to be a "reward" for desired behavior, rather than needs-based. The system may further design the content of gifted programs/services to consist of busy work intended to keep children occupied when they complete gen ed lesson material earlier than their classmates. This may often be work sheets to complete without benefit of teaching or opportunity to ask questions. These programs/services generally do not match the needs of gifted learners, but may more closely align with the hot-housed high-achieving.

This is not to say that being gifted and careful/hardworking are mutually exclusive. Children ought to be encouraged to chase down every bit of learning. Unfortunately, rather than acknowledging and sustaining internal motivation to continue learning by providing antelope (reference to Stephanie Tolan's analogy Is It A Cheetah?), the system rewards happy consumers of zoo chow who may occasionally chase down a rabbit.

Agreed. Providing our kids with context, and framing/re-framing ideas to tailor the message to the audience and their knowledge base makes a large difference in how the information is received, as well as building trust and the quality of the familial relationship.

By contrast, some have noticed that kids who may correctly observe they've been kept in the dark even upon asking direct questions may be more inclined to blurt any tidbit of information gleaned, and may be less respectful of familial relationship (as they may perceive that this is what has been role modeled toward themselves, by family members setting aside their questions rather than entering into a discussion).

Aptly put.

We haven't tested yet but my daughter explains to us about once a year lately how she is ahead of most kids in school. This week she used the car she was riding in to stand in as her scale: kindy was the wheels, first was the floor, and the stereo dial was her level of work. She knows there are other kids ahead in areas but IDed last week as the smartest girl. I talk about there always being someone better at stuff, and everyone having strengths, and yes she's worked so hard and really developed her talents... I'm sure it's a combo of people exclaiming since she was one about her intelligence and seeing for herself what kindy focused on, and now getting some advanced materials (not enough...). If she tests someday she'll ask and ask about it so I'm sure we'd discuss it but probably nonspecific.