DS5 recently joined the chess club at his school. This happens to be a pretty competitive chess club that sends kids to big competitions (including nationally). DS is obviously young, but they do have kids compete in this age range.

We know NOTHING about this scene at all. The costs seem minimal. Info says tournament will be rated by the US Chess Federation.

DS is pretty good for 5, but not a prodigy or anything. We aren't sure how good because we aren't chess people at all. We certainly do not sit around coaching him and he can go months between games, but recently he's been into it. He loves to play, but also still tends to cry sometimes when he loses, though this is much better when playing strangers.

Thoughts on tournaments for a child this age? What is the scene like? Should we wait a year?

I think as long as HE is into it, go for it. If it stops being fun, then maybe think about dropping out. He's so young, I think it's worth a shot, but don't assign any significance to it if it doesn't work out right now.

He doesn't really know what it is so isn't sure whether to say yes or not. He likes the idea of playing more chess, of course.

I agree with epoh. Some differences between a rated tournament and a casual game are the

(1) touch-move rule (you must move a piece you touch)
(2) use of chess clocks
(3) keeping of score (writing down the moves)

I don't expect 5-year-olds to keep score, but your son should get some practice playing with rules (1) and (2) before entering a tournament.

Thanks, Bostonian--I did not know about those rules. Can you tell me more about chess clocks? How long would he get to move? I don't know if they use those at the club. I'll have to ask him.

Has anyone entered a child this young? Would he play other kindergarteners, or is it a range, like ages 5-7? I know that once you get to 7 and 8 some of these kids are real little chess sharks.

Chess clocks track the total time that each side uses for a game, rather than the time for a particular move. The timer starts, and the first player makes a move and then slaps the clock, which starts his opponent's timer. He moves, and hits the button to stop his timer and start the first player's.

Personally, I would take him to watch a tournament before entering him in one.

So, you have a limit on your total time for the game?

I just talked to him about it, and he's interested, but expressed the reasonable concern that he would have to play big kids who are much better than he is. How does it work for a newbie? I assume he is "unrated"? Would he then play only other unrated players?

DS starts chess tomorrow,curious to see how it sticks for him. But he likes a ton of games, he may not want to focus on just one.

Yes. my DS is a huge game fan in general, which is why he often gets distracted from chess in favor of the many other games we have around. Also, it must be confessed that he has a hard time getting me or his father to play with him! We recently got him Solitaire Chess (which really isn't chess, but is chess-ish) and his sister is deigning to play more. I'm still looking for an online chess program at the right level for him, so that he can sometimes win.

I don't play chess myself, but my brother is an authority on chess ratings, so I get some exposure to it all. My understanding is that you get a certain amount of time per game plus a certain amount of time per move. I don't know what the "standard" is for tournaments - I'm sure someone here does. I know that there are versions where it's just a straight-up time limit on each side (I think five minutes in blitz chess), but my understanding is that there is more time available for deliberation in most tournament games.

Maybe you can find some YouTube videos or something that will give you a better idea of what a tournament is like?

Yes, for example each player could get 30 minutes for all of his moves, with a 5 second time delay, meaning that once your clock is pressed, it only starts counting down after five seconds. Little kids play very fast, so their running out of time is not a concern.

I would start him with casual tournaments. In our area, these are often at the local schools and have age groupings that are fairly small (ex. K-1, 2-4, etc.). They are not timed, I don't think and are a good introduction to tournament play. Our son starting playing at age five and is very good, according to adult chess players who have seen him play. He swept the local tournaments last year. Took him to a more major, K-8 in one grade, timed tournament (first time he'd seen clocks, PM me if you want a recommend on one) and he wiped out. It was a different system of play, he spent the first two games starting at the clocks, etc. Since then, we've had coaches work with him on clocks and notation. We may try a formal tournament again this year.

Info above is accurate about the timed games.

There are some great chess books and a magazine for kids. Chessmaster 10,000 is a good computer game and there are a few others.

This seems like a pretty small and casual tournament. I found the website with info but it is hard to make heads or tails of it for someone with no experience. I can, of course, talk to the coaches, but they don't offer an email address and we have almost no time at pickup due to schedule constraints. I will try to see if I can speak to other parents who have done this.

I don't think it's a good idea to take him to watch, because he would want to play, I guarantee. Looking at videos of tournaments of YouTube is a good idea.

Here is a checklist of beginner's knowledge. If your son can at least do (1) (you can practice with him) he may be ready for a tournament.

(1) Can checkmate with king and queen vs. king from a random starting position.
(2) Same as (1) with rook instead of queen.
(3) Knows how to castle on either side of the board, and knows when castling is disallowed.
(4) Knows what stalemate is -- can construct a stalemate position with king and queen vs. king.
(5) Knows to start the game by moving the pawns in front of the king and queen and bringing out the knights and bishops.
(6) Knows the rank order of the value of the pieces.
(7) Knows what the four move checkmate is ("Scholar's mate") and can defend against it.

I actually don't know all of what he knows because his sister teaches him things. She gets weekly chess lessons at school. She is also not by any means a prodigy, and is actually not that interested, but being bright and having a good memory, she naturally retains much of what she is taught. He has never beat her but occasionally beats us (which makes sense since DH and I have never been instructed in chess in any way, nor read anything about it--also we don't care very much and sometimes play half-heartedly, which she doesn't do).

He can castle, knows what stalemate is, knows the rank order, and knows how to start the game in the accepted way (DD has taught him this). I don't know about this scholar's mate thing, which I am not familiar with, but it's possible DD knows about it. I'm not sure what you mean by "random starting position" in 1 and 2--we obviously don't play this way so it's hard to say. He also knows about forks and skewers (I don't really even know what I am talking about here, but again, DD taught him this).

What he has going for him in terms of a tournament is that he is in K. I see now that the tournament has a K-1 category so he would not play kids a lot older than he is.

Sounds like he is ready. Random starting position means that if if he has a king and queen vs. king, he should be able to mate in about 20 moves regardless of the initial positions of the pieces.

Based on what you've shared, it sounds like he's ready. We have an extracurricular chess club at school and my kids have gone to several local, kid-friendly chess tournaments and really enjoyed them. We are outside of Philadelphia and there is a group here -- shining knights chess - that hold tournaments for kids K-8. They're saturday afternoons, grouped into K-6 U200 (based on chess rating, I believe kids generally start in this grouping if it's their first tournament), k-8 U600, and the a k-12 group.

One thing to be aware of -- often the parents are REALLY competitive, way more competitive than the kids. My kids were clueless to it, but I was certainly aware of some of the crazy parents.

Okay, yes, this is info I was looking for. I am guessing this will vary by region, but I was curious about the culture of this scene. Neither of my children has ever competed in anything. (DD9 is actively anti-competition and DS is only 5.) This kind of attitude is a major turn-off to me, but I don't think I will mind as long as there isn't an attitude on the part of the kids--as in, poor sportsmanship. I am a little worried about what will happen when DS loses anyway, but gloating or poor sportsmanship on the part of his opponent (or opponent's parents!) could really seal it.

I am also wondering how involved parents are generally and if our total lack of knowledge about chess is going to be an issue.

If it is K-1, it is worth trying! BTW, our son learned along with my husband (who had only played once or twice) and quickly surpassed him. I believe Chess for Children by Murray Chandler is the book that DS read that really helped him progress.

At the larger tournament we attended, there were clearly some hyper parents, and one or two obnoxious kids, but generally speaking, it was a pretty quiet (due to the chess games in progress), subdued environment. I would take along things for your son to do that are quiet, in the event his games finish before the time limit.

Chess is great enrichment because it is similar to the music community. Interest, discipline, desire to learn, and long attention span are the key factors to progress. For children "locked" into their grade-level by age, it's a great opportunity to just develop skill, no matter your age. In fact, the younger and less experienced children often make great chess team members because of their willingness to absorb and learn the strategy behind the game- before learning some bad habits. I teach enrichment chess for an after school program- the youngest often have the best attitudes!

The only thing jarring about chess tournaments is that they often keeps parents at a distance. If a child has separation anxiety or gets nervous in new situations, it's best to go and observe a tournament first so they are exposed to the environment. It's much easier to focus and play your best if you are not stressed in a new situation.

Standard for most tournaments is 1 hour, each player with 30 minutes on their clock. With young children, this is usually plenty of time- they tend to play fast.

Good luck!

Good point about the kids (players) and parents being kept separate. The tournament itself is in a separate room from the parents; you can't watch the kids play at all. The organizers at the tournaments we've been to joked that the parents did not need to help the kids find their place at the table, saying that if the child can play a game of chess, then surely that child can also find a numbered spot at the table!

Really? A separate room? Is that standard? I could definitely see you not being able to sit by them--didn't imagine we would.

A good player (parent or coach) can watch the games of his children and later remember at least the opening moves and comment on the play. If a 5yo plays in a tournament where no spectators are allowed, and if he cannot write down the moves (my kids are older and can't/don't), he won't learn much. It may be a better to have a young child just go to a club where he can play more games (no waiting for the next round of a tournament to start) and where parents and coaches can watch.

Would you take your child to a baseball or soccer match you were not allowed to watch?

Yes, separate room seems weird! But I do see the problem with parents potentially coaching--how is that avoided?

BTW, I'm thinking DS needs to wait a while longer...not due to lack of skill, but lack of emotional maturity. I'd like him to get more experience playing lots of different kids at chess club. He has time.

Um, hoo boy. We are now being pretty assertively courted by the chess team coaches.

JMO, but I think with chess you're right to be cautious - chess is such a competitive world and children sometimes seem to spend *so* much time on it... The skills seem less transferable than maths competition skills (not that they're devoid of things that are no use outside competition) and less capable of bringing pleasure to people around than music - two comparisons that seem relevant when thinking about what my kid should spend time on. It seems like a better thing to do if you're *not* going to be very good at it than if you're in danger of being sucked into the whirlpool... But if your DS wants to and would enjoy it, tricky. I don't know how possible it is to stay moderate.

He really likes PLAYING. He loves the game. He loves ALL kinds of board and card games--he's just a total game hound. Is he a competitive personality? Not really. Winning is not his big motivator. I'd hate to see it go that direction.

I don't think being competitive (or not) should be seen as a flaw. The business world often wants people who have demonstrated a degree of competitiveness. Lots of good junior chess players become financial traders (to address ColinsMum's comment about transferable skills).

I want my children to be good sports. The other day, when my son reported to the tournament director that he had "creamed" his opponent, I told him to simply say "I won" in the future. But I also want them to want to win, whether it's at chess, physical sports, or talent search tests and to prepare accordingly.

A 5yo boy may cry if he loses. A benefit of a chess or other tournament is to toughen him up, although that could certainly wait for a few years.

Yes, well--difference in life philosophy. I'm a believer in excellence for the sake of excellence, improving on your own performance, enjoying the experience, etc. Not a fan of encouraging my kids to value winning just for the sake of winning. I don't think it leads to happiness in life.

FWIW, I'm suspicious of adults who seem to have their best interests (glory) at heart rather than that of the child.

Learning to win and lose graciously is an important life skill but you don't need a private chess coach for that.

Yes. I really hear you.

I think you and Mama are being too cynical.

It's the job of piano teachers/baseball coaches/chess coaches/kindergarten teachers to identify talent in piano, baseball, chess, and academics. The failure of teachers to identify and nurture academic talent largely explains the existence of this forum. You described earlier what your 5yo can do in chess, and other parents and I said he was ready for tournaments. If money were not a concern, I think private lessons should be considered. I teach my 6yo daughter (who has some talent) at home.

An inexpensive alternative to private lessons that I recommend (and have used with my children) is a subscription to Chess Magnet School http://www.chessmagnetschool.com/ , which costs $30/year. There is a series of lessons and problems through which students progress.

I'd avoid private tutors, myself, for fear that my DS might grow up to be a financial trader (shudder.) Actually, I'll be curious to see whether he'll will take up chess or it will just be another amongst dozens of other games he enjoys.

I like the idea of the online magnet school, so I thank you for that. He loves the Fritz and Chesster CD-ROM we got him.

I very much like the idea of nurturing his passion and excitement for the game. I don't want him to get caught up in a hyper competitive environment around this, where this is a really huge thing that parents are cutthroat about...at this age, it seems premature anyway. He has time later on to decide if this is really something he wants to emphasize. He will be at this school for 6 years. Don't get me wrong--I feel very lucky that we have this resource. It's a reason we decided to enroll him there.

It's fair to point out that I do not pick DS up from chess, so all this is secondhand. I think it's reasonable to say that I can't know whether the coach is just excited to see young talent (and wants to make sure we understand that there IS talent--my DH is laid back and does not exude tiger parent in any way) or whether he is eager about the idea of adding DS to their team. I can tell you that my DD spent a year in this club and the coaches never spoke to us once.

I have found that people who love chess (admittedly not a mainstream hobby) can be very passionate about it and get very excited when they find someone talented at it. That's been our experience with DS. Three chess club teachers have told us he has grandmaster potential, given practice/coaching, and one parent who knows the game well pulled DH aside after watching DS play several times. She wanted him to know she thought he was exceptionally talented at it and needed higher-level coaching than the club teachers couldn't provide. So it may just be that they are genuinely excited about his potential!

Thanks, CD--that's a good perspective to hear.

We will just keep him going to the club for now and maybe consider trying out the online program that Bostonian recommends (since it is cheap, and DS could do it or not as he pleases). Maybe we will try him in a tournament this spring. He has so much time.

UM
Where we are the chess culture is huge and everywhere and there are a lot of very very competitive parents involved. I say parents because thats usually where the attitudes come from. We know a family who has two kids - we met them when little one was DS age in K - older was maybe 9 - they had been doing the competitive chess for the older and the parents played and they travelled and it was a fun thing for the family - then its noticed just how good the little one is - like scary chess prodigy good - so they started entering him in tournaments and then did get him a chess coach. What was interesting is that it was kind of like MoN's thread about skill vs interest. Its hard to tell if the little one is as interested in it as the older kid - but wow is he good. So the parents are nurturing it - perhaps even pushing it - where the little one wouldn't go on his own because he was 5 - now at 7 he is doing more tournaments, and again its a big family thing for them and he is winning. Does he like it or view it as something he does I don't know - but basically their point was that he could not get better to the level he understands without the coach appropriate to the level, which the school coach might not be. So I think if the coach is saying he needs more - its not necessarily about the drive to win or compete, he might be saying that your DS can go deeper and would need special instruction to do so. Ironically this is the reverse of what we all go through here - when was the last time some teacher came to a parent and said your kid needs more!!

DeHe

Well, that's the truth.

Kind of makes you think...

It is completely possible that I am imagining things but...

I wouldn't be too comfortable in an environment where coaches only paid attention to their competition material kids and basically ignored everyone else.

I didn't realize how competitive and serious chess can get even for kindergartners.
Anyhow, when it comes to extracurricular activities, my approach is to let the child be the driving force. If your DS wants more chess then I'm sure he'd let you know.

Despite my reservations for the possibility of tiger coaching, I am excited for your DS that his talent has been discovered. I was burnt out by an overly ambitious piano teacher but I'm sure you'd be much more on top of pushy adults than my parents ever were. Having protective parents makes all the difference, IMO.

Just like athletics and academics, chess can be a fabulous, challenging and stimulating outlet, or a drudge that is pushed on a child by demanding outside influences. Our experience with chess was that it was something at least one of our children loved for a period of time, and tournaments were great fun. He eventually stopped because there was little support for chess in the public school (sound typical?). However, he never complained about feeling pushed or overwhelmed by competition. He enjoyed the strategic aspects of it, and has carried that skill with him.

As with all abilities, assessing a child's interest level, temperament and emotional reaction is essential. Good luck with your decision.

Gail/ www.giftedchallenges.blogspot.com

My kids aren't into chess competition (although my dd11 likes chess and participates in a club that doesn't compete outside of the club). So I have no background in chess specifically, but fwiw, I wondered the same thing Mana mentions. My kids have been involved in a lot of other sports over the years, and our best experiences have been with the groups where the talents of each of the children were nurtured, not just the naturally athletically talented kids.

OTOH, I also wondered if the not-paying-attention to your dd comment might be a factor of personality - my youngest dd gets attention due to her athletic talents, but also gets attention because her personality sort of demands it lol. My older dd, otoh, while she is quite good at some of the sports she participates in, also derives her joy from her friends and doesn't really stand out in any given group because she's having fun and that's her entire motivation (which is ok with me too, btw ).

Best wishes,

polarbear

Well, DD is very clear about not wanting to compete in anything, generally speaking. So it's possible she was asked if she was interested during club, and said no. She also doesn't express much passion for the game. She is serviceable at it, though. Actually, she is noticably improving (though no longer in club, she gets chess instruction at school). I think she really does not want to be shown up by her brother, which could get sticky.

Personality-wise, neither child is a shrinking violet. But DD is prickly and often rather difficult with adults. DS is sort of naturally magnetic.

Okay, I just watched him beat my DH (really) and dude, he's pretty damn good. I'm not sure when he improved so much. He didn't use to be nearly this good.

I think that I would leave the decision up to your DS5. Local tournaments are no big deal at all and they are commonly rated by the US Chess Federation. There are some children 5 or younger competing. The tournament is separated into categories based on rating and grade levels. Obviously, you would not register your DS5 to compete against high schoolers at the highest ratings so he should be competing against elementary aged beginners. He should also have enough common sense to walk to the correct (labeled clearly) seat since parents are not supposed to be in the room during the games.

I would not freak about the club coach, who is probably trying to be helpful. Our school doesn't have a chess club, but in the beginning chess classes that DS/DD took, the coach told all the kids near the end of the session to try a tournament if their parents will take them.

As far as private lessons, I have been told that while a child may do well enough, he is unlikely to win tournaments unless he has coaching. I can really see why that may be the case. DS is really unpredictable. He has beaten a high school player who placed in at least one state tournament but lost to a beginning player a year or two younger. He has flashes of brillance but haven't bothered to learn all the basic strategic plays. DS refused priviate lessons because he did not want to practice but only play as he pleased.

Well, WIN tournaments...sure. I don't care if he wins tournaments, though. I would think it was great if he continued to enjoy the game and got better and better and his rating improved. I think you're right that intensive study is needed to really excel. There's no doubt that it's a complicated game and that raw talent will only take you so far. Practice and instruction are necessary and I can see that quite clearly. DS is learning a lot from his CD ROM and I am working to find people who will play with him, online and in person. I got him an account on Chess Kids today and his first game was against a player with a 720 rating and hundreds of game under his/her belt. He tried hard and did take some powerful pieces, but was clearly outclassed, though he lost a rook to a mousing accident. However, he managed to stalemate at the end by getting his king out of range.

Can anyone give me a quick and dirty rundown of the various national scholastic chess competitions?

Anyone? Bueller?

In fact, if anyone can point me to resources on scholastic chess (websites, blogs) that would be great. I am trying to get the lay of the land and would prefer to get it from someone other than the coach. I have some books in my Amazon basket, but recs there wouldn't hurt either, keeping in mind that DS is 5 (though he reads extremely well) and hasn't been taught notation yet.

Babas Chess is a good online place to play rated games against real people

Search for the United State Chess Federation. They have a fairly inexpensive youth membership, I think it comes with a magazine designed for kids.

Chessmaster 10,000 is computer game that DS has enjoyed thoroughly. It allows him to pick the styles of the pieces (ex. cartoon characters), which adds to the fun.

Oh, and in high SES areas, there seem to be a fair number of K-1 players, oddly enough.

In our area (mid-sized city), there are local tournaments hosted by some elementary schools. Those are unranked but fun for a beginning player. DS now says there's no one that provides good competition for him at those, though.

Many states have chess associations and lists of scholastic tournaments, but I think you have to search online for them. I've not seen a master list.

My DS has been participating in tournaments since he was four. He won first place in the unrated category in Kindergarten in the Scholastic K-12 Nationals before he turned 4.5. Now at age 6, his USCF rating is now slightly over 1000, so still beginner, but more "advanced" beginner, lol.

He competes in local tournaments quite often but we cant afford to go to National ones much, only if they are in our area. He loves it.

He did give up chess for about 10 months. Then got back into it. He loves studying tactics with software like Chess Tempo and loves playing other kids online at chesskid.com

Oh yes, be aware of the competitive parents.

We just use chess and tournaments to teach character. He has a pin that has a queen on it that says "Play With Honor"; if his attitude is great he gets to wear it (this is a treat for him). He is learning to be a good winner and loser. He learns to shake hands, smile, and say Great Game no matter what. He's learned that even his heros like Magnus Carlson lose at times.

It seems that my city is a bit of a chess power, for some reason. I can't quite figure this out, as we are a mid-sized city, but it does appear to be so. Odd.

Tor'sMama, your son must be very good. I don't really know what I am talking about, but I think 1000 is very high for 6. I'm curious as to why you think he gave it up for 10 months. Was it getting to be too much? Also, does he have a coach? And how in general do you find the experience for a child this age? I like your pin idea.

Hi Ultramarina,

I haven't been on this site for a while so I am just catching up on some threads.

DS has been to two national tournaments so I can give you some guidance there. We have exchanged PMs about chess in the past so feel free to do so again, or we can continue to discuss on this thread if you prefer.

There appear to be lots of "national tournaments", which would be an oxymoron. But they are all segmented by grades so for a particular child there are really only two that make sense.
The first is the national spring tournament that puts together grade groups. Often the tournaments for different grade groups are in different cities. For example the kids in 6th grade or below could be in Dallas, whereas the high school kids could be in Atlanta. Sometimes they combine them into one city, as they did in 2013. The grade groups that they have for this tournament are K-1, K-3, K-6, K-9, and K-12. While a kindergartner could theoretically play a 12th grader in K-12, the reality is that almost every child is in the lowest category for which they are eligible.

In December there is usually a national grade championship. There will be a separate category for each grade and so winning the championship is easier here, especially as many of the best players don't bother showing up for this tournament.

Also, here are my thoughts on other topics people have discussed:

1. As I stated before, I think your son has shown an unusually early talent for chess. I remember you mentioning it a couple years ago (at age 3?).

2. I commend your "no pressure" approach to the game. There are some kids that hate the game but are forced to play it. Usually the child showed early talent, and the parents are convinced they have the next Bobby Fischer if they just "Tiger Mom" enough. But my experience is that a young child's skill in chess tells very little about later skill. One local player was K-3 national co-champion several years ago, but gave up the game within five years because he did not progress, and was losing to local peers his age. On the flip side, another local kid has won nationals twice, three years apart.

3. If your son likes the game, a chess coach will certainly improve his skills. Private chess lessons, if they are affordable, are far better than group lessons.

4. When selecting the first chess coach, the most important thing is finding someone who can relate to a young child and make the lessons enjoyable. Rating is much less important for this first coach. You should not exclude anyone rated over 1800 (if currently playing), or over 2000 (if no longer playing).

Hi mithawk! I was hoping you would pop up again.

So there are basically two national competitions a year, both USCF, one K-1, K-3, K-6, K-9, and K-12, and one that is by each grade (K, 1, 2, etc.) Second one is less competitive. And then it appears that every so often there is this supernationals things, right? Which is the thing where all the tournaments are played in one spot (Nashville?) for osme reason. There are also local, regional, superregional (?), and state tournaments (not sure what superregional is). Do I have that right? And there are state chess federations but really just the one national scholastic chess federation? I need a cheat sheet!

Yes, he learned at 3 and in some ways I suspect his apparent talent is simply due to having learned at 3. How many 5-year-olds have 2 years of chess play already under their belts? That said, he is a careful, unimpulsive player who does not let much get by him. And yes, he LOVES the game. Between the 3 of us at home, the Fritz and Chesster CD-ROM (he is almost done with it, though he can replay), chess club, and playing his grandfather on chess.com, we try to slake his thirst, but it's hard. He easily plays an hour and a half a day and would play more if we let him.

What I see with DS is that he will soon be at the stage where he needs to learn the prescribed openings and so on. I am not totally sure about his enthusiasm for that part, but we'll see.

I think you've got it, although we don't have a super-regionals where I live.

We started DS in local kids-only tournaments. His first few tournaments were unrated, before we moved to rated tournaments. Some tournaments were at chess clubs, while others were held in libraries, or even restaurants.

I am not sure what is considered good in chess either, lol. But as of next month he is on parr to rank in the top 100 USCF players ages 7 and under. His rating is above 1100 now. I guess that's good. He's at a tournament this weekend in a neighboring city.

I think he burnt out on it. He wasn't even quite five years old when he stopped pursuing it. Before that he would play hours a day if I let him. Plus he started working on motor skills at that time, you know normal kid stuff like learning to write and ride a bike and pump on the swing. Hah.

He doesn't have a coach. He has taken three lessons before but we just can't afford it to be honest. The coach still thinks my son will be very high ranked IF he sticks with it. I do t care one way or another, honestly. I just want him to be happy and a selfless person. If chess helps him towards those goals, great. It not we will reevaluate his participation in the sport.

Well, we went ahead and took DS to his first tournament recently. He was unrated and a kindergartener, so I think he was given some easy opponents. He beat all of them, very quickly.
He was iffy on whether to go or not--felt nervous about competing--but came home all smiles.

You are stalemated if you are not in check but have no legal moves. Did your son administer stalemate or was he stalemated himself? You could ask him who had only a king (and perhaps a few pawns) left at the end of the game. Either way the result is a draw, but in junior tournaments the player who was stalemated was typically the weaker player, who got a bit lucky. When my younger two started playing in tournaments, some of their first non-losses were stalemates carelessly administered by their opponents.

Congratulations to your son on his result.

My son administered stalemate, per my husband...messed up his endgame a little. By the way, the parents were allowed to be in the room but were not close enough to be in talking range. My husband was able to see the games somewhat, though not always all that well.

Oh, and Bostonian, because of your suggestion we trained him in defense against Scholar's Mate the day before the tournament. Sure enough, one of his opponents tried it on him, but he successfully defended against it. He was quite pleased with himself!

Based on this and the fact that your son beat the players in his section with ease, he may be ready to play "up" with older players.

Looking at the results, he was assigned to low-ranked K/1 players, presumably because he was unranked? The kids he beat are pretty far down in the overall standings. I am guessing that when he plays a few more tournaments and gets a ranking he will be assigned to harder players.

Most American chess tournaments are run according to the "Swiss system" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss-system_tournament , in which players who have won the same number of games in the tournament so far are paired against each other. The section you play in and how you do in a tournament determines the quality of your opponents more than your rating does.

Hmm--the results say Swiss System but it does not appears that DS played kids who won the same # of games as he had.

That's great ultramarina.

I just led our elementary school's first ever chess tournament and we had 16 kids in the K-1 division. A Kindergartener won all five matches to take first in the division. My son started playing chess as a K and I highly recommend it -- I wish I had found beginner tournaments for him earlier. All the kids love the ability to play chess with other kids all day long!

Just wanted to share that my six yr old son is now in the Top 100 Chess players in the US for ages 7 & under! He is currently #82, but this ranking is based on his USCF rating from last month. His rating has since gone up significantly, so he will probably remain on the list and go up in ranking next month. He was pretty excited.

That's great Tor'sMama. He is quite strong for age 6.

If anyone reading this is looking to find a group to practice with, 'meetup.com' has lots of chess club listings. Participation in tournaments is not required, often they will also have 'casual' meetings, to help new players get used to playing chess with a clock and writing down the moves.

Also, the book 'Average is Over' covers a lot of interesting angles on tournament chess, computer Chess AI, and 'freestyle' chess which involves teams of humans and computers competing...(pretty different from human only chess). No matter that it happens to be a book on economic trends.

DS did very well in a school chess tournament as well.

He did even better than thought, actually. This is all pretty astonishing considering that he was definitely not nearly this good just 3-4 months ago.

Well done him! Sounds as though you've got some difficult decisions to take.

I am on the one hand really proud of him and on the other feeling gradually a bit more overwhelmed by what I am beginning to recognize is 1) a lot of potential and 2) a lot of potential for him to compete, be coached, and travel because of where he goes to school and where we live (a city with a lot of chess happenings and a school with a strong chess team).

When I was growing up I played mostly in adult chess clubs and tournaments in my town, rather than in state or national scholastic tournaments requiring expensive travel. Now it's even easier to find a competitive game online. It's arguably more important to become a better player, which will be reflected in a higher rating, than to become the national or state 1st grade champion (individual or team) or whatever. (Arguable because for some children, being on a team and winning trophies may be more rewarding than just becoming a better player.)

If your son is still serious about chess in high school, winning national scholastic titles may help him get into selective colleges.

He doesn't really like playing online as much and tends to not play as well on a computer. There's something about over the board play that engages him more.

ultramarina, as far as expenses go, does your DC' school hold fundraising for the chess club to help parents out? One of my teacher friends is a GT coordinator for her school and they're raising $$$$$ right now for a trip that involves thousands of miles of travel. School's goal is for parents to incur zero expense unless they decided to come along then they're responsible for their own travel expense. Within the first week of announcement, they had two substantial donations from community organizations.

I share your reservation about participating in competition. We're opposed to DD competing in any types of music or ballet competitions even if the cost may not be an issue but obviously, chess is a game and you have to compete one way or another. I agree though with Bostonian that participating in local teenager/adult tournaments is a good alternative.

I suppose one question is--what is the goal? Is it to meet other kids who enjoy the game and find a tribe? (This is valuable for DS at present since he is not yet in an environment at school with other gifted kids.) Is it to get really good? Is it to learn the life lessons of poise, losing with grace, and practice and determination?

Or is it to play as much as possible because he just loves it? Let me emphasize that chess is pure joy for DS. He plays every single day and practices tactics with an app on my phone (this is what he chooses for screentime 80% of the time). He reads chess books. But this is all his idea. It is not like an instrument or a sport, where at some point every kid balks at practice or is tired out. It's 100% enjoyment and excitement. I wonder, if he were being coached, if he might lose some of this. He never "has to" do anything with chess at this point (well, except go to club).

Love that concept.

Has anyone's child gone to the World Youth Chess Championships?

We had considered it but didn't. It was 11 days in Dubai, including some school days.

I know some people that have.

How old is your child and what was/is their rating? My son just got invited by the local chess coach to take weekly lessons from him for free if he wanted to pursue qualifying for the 2015 world championships in Greece. We would have never considered anything like this, but 2 hours of lessons a week for free is a pretty incredible opportunity for us and it is pretty amazing that the coach thinks this highly of our son. We homeschool so the time gone would not be as big of an issue for us, though the expenses certainly would be. Plus I have no idea if my son can raise his points enough in time for the qualification cutoff, though he has raised it more in that amount of time before. Currently he is #9 in the U.S. for his age, #2 in Texas for his age, #65 in the U.S. for ages 7 & Under, with a 1186 rating. So not WAY high, but decent.

Here's a naive question, sparked by something Bostonian said upthread. Why is chess so age-stratified? Why do people care to compare children who are the same age, and why are specific children's competitions with age-groupings so popular?

I just wonder whether it's grown up by accident in imitation of sports competitions, where even the most extraordinary 6yo is going to lose to a mediocre 14yo because of size. But chess is not like that. Why don't the best chess children usually compete with adults locally rather than with children further away? It doesn't look as though the tournaments are particularly good social opportunities. Is it about winning in the short term? If so, is that wise?

Tor'sMama,

Without getting into exact numbers, DS qualified by being a USCF Expert the year he turned 11. If he had gone to World Youth, he would have been in the lower half of the competitors by rating.

Strong child chess players do play in adult tournaments most of the time. But in terms of bragging rights, you hear much more about the child-only tournaments that they win.

Interesting--I didn't realize this.

Tor'sMama, I wonder if you could find someone to coach your child online for less? It seems to me that the expense to send you and your son to Greece might eclipse the savings from not having to pay for coaching.

You are probably also facing some of the same questions we are..or the same major question:

What is my ultimate goal when entering my child in chess tournaments? What do I see as the most desirable end result? What does my CHILD want, and how I can accomplish this in the most sane way?

Thank you for your thoughts.

He has been playing and competing since he was four, winning first in the kindergarten unrated category in the Nationals when he was four years, three months after he learned how to play. He took a 10 month break from competing and playing much at age five. He currently loves it, competes locally twice a month, and semi locally (within a few hours) a handful of times a year. I let him compete because he wants to. I don't have any real interest in having a young child compete. My husband loves that my son is good at something at a young age (I think he feels like he never was good at things so having a son who us is exciting to him). So my husband learned to play chess and started a local club and became a tournament director, etc.

Anyway, when his coach approached my husband and son about free lessons and the possibility of going to Greece, my son jumped on it. I am not really as thrilled, some due to the expense IF he qualified in time plus the expense of having to go to extra not so local tournaments this year to play different players (we live in a small town), some due to the fact that I'm afraid my son will eventually feel pressured and stressed and lose the love of the game. he is a perfectionist and can tend to get wrapped up in whether his rating is going up or down. Sigh.

This is a huge concern of ours as well, so I really sympathize.

After some hesitation about his first official tournament, my son is now gung-ho to enter more. He would probably want to go to Greece too (not that he is at this level!!), without knowing what that would mean.

However, he probably had a great time at the tournament in large part because he won all his games (well, he drew one but that was not officially counted--he played it with an older child who had no opponent in that round). I feel like he doesn't have any real idea what a big tournament and a lot of pressure would be like, and at his age he is still very innocent and might have a negative experience with older kids who might try to intimidate him (I don't mean with a good game). I have heard that this can happen. But your son has played a lot more than mine. Has he played older children, and would he in Greece? Has he had experience with losing, and losing badly? I want to see how my son does with this. I don't mean to sound like a sadist, but it's important to me to see how he handles this experience at his young age before we start putting money and time into more competition.


This would concern me a little.

Oh yes he has actually never played a child younger than he is and he often plays in adult tournaments. Older kids and adults are not intimidating to him, he relates well to them. He has experience in losing, though when he plays kids, he tends to win most if not all games. There just are not as many higher level kid players locally. But he has lost significantly playing adults before and I'm sure once he starts driving to the closets city for tournaments, he will lose to kids, too. He has learned to lose with dignity and we love that.

I am concerned about my DH living vicariously through my son, yes. And I've had many talks with him about it but he doesn't see any harm in any of it. I just don't see why my son HAS to try to world championship now. Why not just let him enjoy playing the game in our small life here. But I'm not competitive and although I was good at a few things growing up, I was never the best at them and my parents were always just supportive of me, enjoying coming to my plays and musical performances because they enjoyed watching ME not because I was amazing. And I really want the same for my kids but I'm not sure my hubby truly feels the same way. I think he sees our son's potential and wants to encourage him to reach it. I just want our son to be happy and for us to do what's right for our family... And having so much revolve around chess takes a toll on us to be honest, on me and on our finances and on the rest of the three kids, though I'm sure my DH does not see that.

DS5 won 2 games and lost 1 recently at a tournament. I'm actually rather pleased that he lost. He can't win all the time.

We are lucky to live in an area with a very vibrant chess scene. There is no shortage of good chess players for my DS to play, even in K-1! (We have 1st graders rated in the high 900s locally, and if DS were to "play up" in my city's scholastic tournaments, he could eventually face kids with ratings up to 1900. I've been really impressed by the turnout at the tournament and the intensity of some, though not all, competitors.) I can understand how it would be a lot harder if we lived somewhere without this culture.

mithawk, I sent you a PM with a chess tournament question.

That may something many fathers do, but it needs to be kept in bounds. I do think it would be neat if my daughter were nationally competitive (either overall or among females). She is a bit more serious about the game than my boys and asks me to rehearse chess openings.

My eldest son's programming knowledge and ambition is growing by the day. Will he start a company some day? He'll be thrilled when I get him a MacBook.

I'm not going to win any more chess titles or found a tech start-up ...