Hello all,

This morning, I was going through report cards (first quarter, second quarter) of DD8 and got into a shock.

All her reading grades in quarter 1 is 3 (grade scale is 1-4 and 4 being the best).

In her second quarter report card (which lists previous quarters grades as well), her 1st quarter grades for reading are dropped down to 2.

Is it possible to drop down previous quarter's grades?

This is from public gifted program.

I had a feeling that the teacher is ticked by something and kind of working against my daughter, but I kept saying myself it can not true. Now, I am having second thoughts...

Whoahhhh-- I thought this kind of thing only happened to US.

We've had this happen, too-- my explanation ultimately is that it isn't about MY kid at all-- but about demonstrating "efficacy" in the program.

The problem is that if kids are already at "mastered" at the beginning, then it's hard to aggregate data including those students when they fail to show IMPROVEMENT over the course of the school year.


Seriously-- my DD's had beginning-and-end-of-year test scores shifted. I took screen shots, so I can PROVE it was done.

Maybe the record is being concocted to give the appearence of academic progress in the form of increasing scores.

If some accountability method calls for a pattern of increasing scores over time, then the incentive is not only to have higher scores at later times, but to have lower scores at earlier times.

Yup - what Howler and 22b said...

So they can go back and change the previously given grades??

What should I do? I feel that she needs to fix these...

The data is not doing the driving. The data is being driven.

I would alert teacher and principal (and whomever else - iep team if there is one or whatever) to the issue via email and request a meeting. Chances are they will change them back to avoid meeting...

Honestly-- ask yourself this. How much goodwill would it burn? Is it worth it?

If you truly feel that you need to signal to SOMEONE that you're aware of this practice... I'd approach it light-heartedly with a laugh...

Well, I guess that's one way to 'demonstrate academic progress' in the students who are already highly capable at the start of the school year....


It's not as though this is a transcript that colleges are going to look at. Bear that in mind. JMO, but I'd not make this kind of thing my personal hill to die on. There's a lot more nonsense than this to spend energy on, but that's just my experience. It's possible that for you, it matters that much.

Do you have the actual report cards (the paper copies) the school sent? If so, I would go to the teacher or school with them and ask that they be corrected. It is possible that the teacher made a mistake when looking up the first quarter's grade and wrote down scores for another student.

22B - I am sorry I didn't understand. Isn't a quarterly report snapshot of quarter based on student's performance vs expected performance for a given time?

Yes, I do have actual report cards sent by school.

HowlerKarma - in our school district, teacher's can initiate an exit process for a student (to kick a student out of the program). Given our teacher's comments, I am a little worried she is getting into something like this. that's why I seem to be sensitive about it. Her grade giving has been in the down trend, quarter after quarter without much feedback/explanation.

Leyla, I'd ask the teacher what the 1-4 scale is being measured against. In our schools, the score always was *supposed* to be reflective of end-of-grade skill mastery, so a drop to a 2 would be a true drop in skills, which would seem highly unlikely - but I would first check to be sure the scale measured against was the same for each quarter - it's possible your school is measuring against a scale that increases in level each semester or quarter.

If you find out that the measurement standard *didn't* change, then ask for specifics of why your dd's score dropped. It's possible it could be as simple as a *mistake* in reporting. If it's not that, it's going to be good to hear the teachers' explanation and then go from there - wherever it leads.

To be honest, I didn't put any worry or weight into those early elementary "1-4" "grades". They were mostly there to show "progress" on the part of the school - and had very little to do with my children's abilities or performance in school. When I questioned why my ds' scores weren't higher once when I had clear evidence (both in classroom work and teacher's comments) that ds was way ahead of grade level in that particular category - the teacher said (with a straight face) "I have to mark him lower than a 4 now because the number isn't supposed to be 4 until the end of the year." That's when I decided to just ignore the whole thing - it was all about having a good school report card, not about having meaningful data on any one student, and ultimately it didn't really make a difference for my kids in terms of what they were taught in the classroom or where they were placed in school. Performance in school *did* start to matter re placement once our kids were in upper elementary... and oddly enough... that's when our schools started using real grading systems to - that actually reflected student performance.

Sorry - I kinda rambled OT there. FWIW, I'd ask the teacher why there was a drop and if she tries to say it's a real drop in skill level, I'd ask why, and I'd ask what is being done to remediate for it in the classroom

polarbear

That how I would approach it as well - like 'most likely there was an innocent mistake, a typo...' I'd bet money the school will say "oh my! yes of course there has been a mistake we will change them."

Howler's point that "It's not as though this is a transcript that colleges are going to look at" is true too, which is why I don't get hung up on grades (and the fact even when my son has mastered the curriculum is grades are always "middle of the road" in the beginning.) However, the reading levels in our school are cumulative and they like to keep the students all in the same range, which is where such a grade could hurt It could be used as a reason not to instruct her on her true level it that level is "too high" ykwim? That's what they do on my son's school.

Ohhh, Yeah alert teacher and principal and ask why and to have a meeting to discuss.

Gotcha-- yeah, in that case I'd say something. Bring in your proof to your meeting.

Have written an email (pending my husband's review) and scheduled a meeting with the principal. The meeting is on Friday.

If there wasn't this exit process in place, I really wouldn't worry about these grades at all. I see a tremendous progress at my DD8 in reading and math and that's what matters at the end of the day.

We had this happen, well not the same thing.

When my ds was in 3rd and pulled out for 5th grade math. He had a homework assignment that had 2 full pages front and back. He scored a 50% on the work. He only turned in one page so I thought. I told him to check with the teacher but never got an answer so I emailed her. So at the last minute the teacher says she put the homework assignment in the test section. She said it was a very big homework assignment. She said my ds could do a written report on a math function or person to make up his grade. He picked Pascal. He was mad, he felt he was being singled out to do more work then the rest of the kids and really struggling with it. I told him suck it up and do your best, it will help your final grade and it could be fun. He ended up getting a 91% on the report.

Later I find out the grade had changed to 100% for the said homework/Test and it came home in his folder, all of it. I ask Where did this come from? She must have found it he said. How do you explain that to a 3rd grade kid.

So I guess this stuff does happen.
I do not know that I would make a big deal out of it for reasons stated above.

I'm sorry, I didn't see this reply before I posted my reply above. This happened in our school district's gifted program too - the exit process - I know a few parents who's children were asked to leave the program. If this seems to be happening, your best route to advocating successfully against it is to gather as much evidence as you can that your child belongs there. Round up all the test scores you have, as well as homework samples etc - you don't have to fling them out at the beginning of this next meeting - go to this meeting to ask your questions about grades and see what the school is saying. Then if they suggest your dd isn't performing at the level you feel she is, show your proof. If they seem adamant about exiting your child, you can also ask that they give your dd another round of the testing required for entrance into the program - there's a potential that might not work out well if she doesn't score as highly the second time, but if she did, I would argue that she needs the gifted program and what really should be happening if she's not achieving at the level she's expected to - why not? What is happening in the classroom or teaching method etc that isn't working for her? Ask that the issue be addressed in the classroom before exiting her from the program.

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - I looked back at your previous post about dd and her report card scores being lower than expected - you mentioned there that the teacher had concerns about focus and that had impacted her scores. You might find that this is something you'll need to address when talking with the principal and teacher, and should try to do it without assuming they are simply hoping to exit your dd from the program. They might *be* hoping to exit her, but the real key here is listening to their concerns - if they feel she has a challenge with focus, I'd request an IEP eligibility evaluation - and also suggest that she not be exited from the program until that process is complete.

Thanks polarbear, I will bring it up on Friday.

She had a focus problem that teacher has been complaining about through the year, but DD8 has been trying so much in the last 1-2 months. She has been getting some compliments during the day from the teacher lately. DD8 is also very motivated lately as she is returning her homework earlier for extra credit or asking her teacher to do extra homework etc. Even though all these progress came later in the school year, I hope it makes a difference if they started any exit process of some sort. Fingers crossed.

It might be better to hold on to your evidence of score tampering, and save it for when it might have to most impact.

Tough call. I feel the urge to send, as school is about to close (last three weeks here). It might be too late to fix it later.

I wonder, if they are planning to ask for an exit, when should I hear? I mean, there are only three weeks left and I will be given some time for appeal and it should still leave me some time to figure out school options for next year. Arghh...

You already have a meeting appointment, right? If not, go ahead and send the email and ask for the meeting. If you have a meeting scheduled already, there is probably no need to send the email - save your questions for the meeting and ask then. You may also get a sense at the meeting that you don't need to ask everything once you've heard the explanation - or you may have more questions!

In any event, (jmo), I think I'd go through with the meeting now - the questions you have about the grade/mark relate to this year, not next year. If the school feels there are issues with your dd's performance in class, you can ask how you can help your dd work on them over the summer if it feels like something worth doing.

If they are considering asking her to exit the program, my gut feeling is they would have already notified you this close to the end of the school year. If it is the case, and they don't notify yet, you may at least get a sense of what's up at the meeting.

Any chance to talk things over in person is usually a good idea - I don't see any reason to postpone the meeting. The email, though, might not be necessary if the meeting is already scheduled. There's always the possibility with emails that it will be misinterpreted or intent won't be understood.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Yes, meeting is already scheduled with principal on Friday. It will be hard to wait. Thanks for best wishes :-))

Just received DDs latest STAR results from the teacher. Math is 99 percentile and reading score is 550 (matches to 5.2 grade level). I guess with these latest results, it will be hard to justify any exit for DD8 (2nd grader). Phewww :-S

What kind of rules to they have for enrollment in the gifted program? Before you go talk with them you might arm yourself with rules. My son's school tried to drop him out of the honors program at 7th grade, but in our district once tested into the gifted programs you are eligible regardless of grades through 8th grade. Parents can choose to drop them down but the school can't.

Sounds like a school or teacher that doesn't really understand gifted students. Good Luck.

When dealing with teachers, I usually start with the innocent questions first and try not to get on the defense until I have at least heard their side of it. Sometimes there is more going on that I haven't been aware of.

I unfortunately can not locate any rules of some sort. In the web site, it vaguely says that a teacher can initiate an exit. It doesn't say any grade requirements of any sort and I am scared to ask :-S It's our first year in the gifted program (it starts in 2nd grade here in WA), so we have a lot to learn.

Another thing is that it's our teacher's first year teaching to the gifted kids, so I am sure she has a lot to learn as well...

Will update the thread after our meeting.

ok, we have decided to send email to the teacher about grades before the meeting to see what she says.

Long story short, there has been a sort of a mistake in the district grading system. Each of those grades will be fixed right away and we have received an apology from the teacher.

Now the problem being solved and DD8's great results in STAR, we might even cancel the meeting with principal.

I was going to say there is the incompetence option. Last year ds7 was rated against the standards a year ahead of where he was. He still cleared them but it didn't increase my faith in the teacher.

Good to know this was just a clerical error. It never hurts to check the obvious.

Bluemagic - wish the clerical error was for the benefit of DD8 ;-) The funny thing is that the teacher didn't have any tools to fix the grades. She didn't have anything written of any sort. She asked me to scan and send it to her so she can fix according to my copy. If there was a district wise issue (which wasn't announced), I wonder how many mistakes went unnoticed.