I've heard back from my DD8's 3rd grade teacher that DD is speaking unkindly (yelling) to her classmates during group activities, and that's it's led to tears all around. The teacher has indicated that it may be because DD is bright and able to see things more clearly than her peers, and is "beyond her years academically." Any advice on helping her learn patience and compassion in dealing with kids who don't get it as quickly as she does?
I work on teachable moments like when we see a TV show or read/listen to a book together. I model empathy like, "Wow. It must be really hard..." and "How do you think it would feel if you...." My son is 2e so we talk about how everyone has struggles and we are all different.
My DS7 also shows perfectionism which I consider to be part of the same issue. If at a fundamental level you find your value tied up in performing well, it is easy to get stuck in those give up/try harder cycles and be critical of others who don't make the mark.
Ultimately I want him to understand that his personal worth and the worth of others isn't about being "the best". I want him to appreciate the value of putting in the work to get somewhere challenging and know that trying new things and making mistakes is the best way to figure out what you need to learn.
Sorry stacychev- that must be so frustrating! Our GT teacher has indicated that this is a big problem she notices when she does her "push-in" units which frequently involve group projects.
In older grades, the organization of the project, as well as structure provided by the teacher, can help somewhat- in particular, when each kid has a separate, defined role I think things go more smoothly. That said, there are things which helped our kids manage.
Does your DD have any activities that are multi-age/ multi-grade? This was probably the biggest help in this area- our kids are in a martial arts program where they are grouped loosely by belt level but most of the class meets together- the higher belts are often tasked with teaching/guiding less skilled students. Great opportunity to see how everyone has different strengths, abilities, etc. We also talked often about which kids were good as teachers and why, how the goal is not to beat the other kid but to show them how to improve, etc. Everyone takes turns being a teacher and a learner- kind of a good lesson for life. (Love that quote that everyone you meet knows something you don't know...)
Also, just talking about different abilities has helped- it's easiest for kids to think about it in terms of how hard it must be for the classmate who is blind, or the friend in a wheelchair, but it can be extended to how hard it must be for the boy with autism or the girl with dyslexia, and the kid who just finds school harder than most. Not that any of the other kids she's working with have a disability, but pointing out that everyone has strengths and things they are working on. We used to say that so-and-so is still working on that skill, how can you help them, or show them?
Lastly, does your DD have any challenging activities/hobbies? We used these as talking points frequently- again, great for reinforcing that everyone has things they need to work hard at or struggle with. For some kids, school is harder- talk about how it would feel to be the kid for whom school is hard, ask your DD for thoughts on how she can help either the kid or the group to function more smoothly, etc.
Perhaps reassurance (from you or the teacher) that the project is not her sole responsibility would help, too- it's possible she is anxious that the work is not up to her standards, etc.
We've had a couple talks with DS7 and they seem to have helped his tact in similar situations. DS is 2e so we talk about how some things are really easy for him (like science and math) and some things are really hard (in his case writing) and how would he feel if the kids who found writing easy said things like that to him etc. Is there something in her case where she felt challenged (like riding a bike, learning how to do the monkey bars for the first time, etc) where maybe she could imagine being in their shoes? It's a tough lesson to learn (heck some adults could use a bit of a refresh....).
I think there are different aspects to consider here:
1) Compassion/patience towards others. 2) Whether she is patient with herself and her own perfectionist challenges that she may be applying broadly and owning the full potential failure of a group task. 3) The executive function aspect of "being on task" AND utilizing her compassion/patience. 4) The behavior she presents when frustrated/impatient or such.
Each is its own hill, but I think the last one is the smallest and should be the first to address as it is behavioral and perhaps she can learn better reaction mechanisms independent of her feelings in the situation.
I'd gamble the teaching external compassion patience path is doable, but potentially unnecessary. As I bet she is generally harder on herself than on anyone else, and understands all those salient points.
The big gain/challenge is likely in improving her executive function control such that she can be "on task", aware of other's abilities and limitations, flexible for change, and able to control the demonstration of her feelings. Not easy.
Depends on her, of course, but I'd discuss it from a group dynamics + role perspective. Suggest to her that in a group activity, she should accept the role of "mood monitor"/facilitator rather than as leader or task success owner or such.
Lastly, does your DD have any challenging activities/hobbies? We used these as talking points frequently- again, great for reinforcing that everyone has things they need to work hard at or struggle with. For some kids, school is harder- talk about how it would feel to be the kid for whom school is hard, ask your DD for thoughts on how she can help either the kid or the group to function more smoothly, etc. .
This. We often use sports as talking points, because it is one thing in which they are ''average." I say things such as "how would you feel if C told you that he was better than you at soccer, and talked about how easy it is for him to score goals?" It is an ongoing conversation for us, so for example, last winter we talked about basketball, in the spring we used baseball,etc. It also gives us a chance to talk about the fact that some kids have to work harder than others at sports, some at school, some at music, etc.
Lately I have made a point to talk about the fact that even though it may take some kids longer to read (or learn math, etc) it doesn't mean that they won't know it AS WELL once they learn it. I think this is a very important message for my children to learn. We also talk a lot about not hurting others feelings by talking about things that they can't do yet, and especially about not criticizing others for taking longer to answer.
Honestly, I don't know the answer, though. Maybe also empathize with her that it must be frustrating, but help her learn how to guide the group to the answer without overtly shouting it at them? It is a skill that she will need in her career, eventually.
There are so many thoughtful and truly lovely responses. This may sound obtuse by comparison but experience suggests that a question may need to be asked about whether there's an elephant in the room... by way of role modeling, has this child seen the teacher yelling at the class in similar circumstances, and might this have influenced her choice of behavior in the described situation?
Thank you to all for your responses! I've heard back from the teacher that this happens more often than not when they're doing math. My daughter is strong in both subjects, at least in comparison to her age peers, but she's more often paired with kids on her reading level when they're doing language arts work, so the impatience isn't as much of an issue.
I think the perfectionism thing is really on target--and related to meltdowns she's had about grades this year (the first year her school gives grades).
Definitely going to look into getting her involved in something that doesn't come so easy.
Well, I'm going to offer a slightly different take on this-- would you say that this is a global kind of problem for your DD?
Or is it particular to school and group/pairs work where she is working with those who are working far below her readiness level?
How old is she, again?
In any child under about 9-10yo, I'm not sure that asking them to be patient and kind about acting as a remedial tutor to a partner, while carrying the bulk of the academic load for their OWN grade... is all that appropriate.
I'm not suggesting that YELLING at the other child(ren) is a good solution-- of course this is not appropriate behavior either.
But it sounds as though this is ultimately a problem which is being caused by a VERY unequal yoking of students. Is your child being asked to serve as a teacher's helper? No? While I respect that there is a place for group work, I don't really see the educational benefit if a pair of students working together on a task are years apart in readiness and understanding. I'm an adult and the impulse is still strong to elbow the other person out of the way and do it myself, at least if MY name is going to be attached to it.
KWIM?
Can the teacher make it a point to group your child with those of similar ability?
We had an issue similar to this in science. DD9 wasn't yelling (yet), but was not getting along very well with her classmates. DD was grouped with about 3-4 other students during this subject and it just wasn't working out. DD did not mention any issues to us at home, but science happened to be her lowest grade. When I asked about science DD said she just didn't like it. Her teacher told me when they broke into groups DD ended up doing most of the work and was getting frustrated. After the teacher realized what was going on, she allowed DD and one other "bright" student to work together as their own little group instead of working in the larger group. I overwhelmingly thanked the teacher for being so observant and taking care of the issue before it became a problem.
I agree we can try to teach our children to be patient and monitor their emotions with appropriate responses when they have situations like this, but if all it takes is a change in groups or some other fairly simple solution, then the responsible person in charge, i.e. teacher, needs to make that call. They can't assume an 8 year old will be able to fix the problem or always maintain composure. In our case the teacher took control and fixed what was wrong. Good job "teach" - problem solved!
We had the first teacher conference since DD skipped from 2nd to 4th yesterday and this came up for us as well. No tears but it certainly isn't helping DD 'win friends and influence people'. Academics were all A+ but the social aspects are still in need of refinement we found in that regard at least.
We had a chat with DD about trying to put a filter in between the 'thought' and the 'deed' but I don't expect this to be something that she will be able to change overnight. Learning how to work politely with the less able is a 'Life Skill' that she will have to learn and better now than later so DW and I are trying to get this ingrained now, too.
I've heard back from my DD8's 3rd grade teacher that DD is speaking unkindly (yelling) to her classmates during group activities, and that's it's led to tears all around. The teacher has indicated that it may be because DD is bright and able to see things more clearly than her peers, and is "beyond her years academically." Any advice on helping her learn patience and compassion in dealing with kids who don't get it as quickly as she does?
Staceychev, you've received lots of good advice above - one thing I'm curious about, have you asked your dd what is happening? You have the teacher's perspective but I'm wondering if there's anything else going on that you don't know about - for instance, is a classmate taunting or making fun of her? How does she get along with her classmates at recess? Is it all group activities or just math (for example)? Is it all classmates or boys or girls or a group of specific classmates where the trouble arises? Does your dd realize she's speaking unkindly?
Interestingly enough, one of the best ways to teach empathy is also one of the best ways to develop self-confidence....struggle.
As has been mentioned, we all have our blessings and challenges, it's important we help our children relate their challenges to those of others. If our children aren't challenged in numerous ways, then we're doing them a huge disservice and setting them up for large scale future failure if not catastrophe. I think any frequent reader of this forum understands the importance of challenging GT children, not simply to keep them happy but to avoid the danger of our children not experiencing and getting used to struggle in their lives now that they’ll most certainly face on a larger scale later in life.
One other option that might help anyone with empathy and compassion is volunteerism. Spend time with your child volunteering for causes when others obviously struggle or lack in blessings that you and your child can help provide. Volunteering, seeing others struggle greatly, and being able to help them has a way of changing our hearts, humbling our souls.
Actually, I don't think it is so much an issue of teaching patience/compassion as teaching acceptable responses in the classroom setting. She may have to deal with annoying/exasperating kids (whether due to learning challenges or something else) in her group, if not currently, then at some point in the future. That kind of incident would have landed her in trouble due to zero tolerance at our school. It's great that your DD's teacher was so easygoing about your DD's yelling and her classmates' crying. For a 3rd grader, it may just be simpler to tell her that she may not yell at her classmates no matter how coginitively slow they are as yelling and causing other students to cry would get her labeled as a problem student.
... by way of role modeling, has this child seen the teacher yelling at the class in similar circumstances, and might this have influenced her choice of behavior in the described situation?
A pertinent youtube video, circa 1989, Rick Lavoie leading a workshop which helps participants (and viewers) walk a mile in our brother's moccasins by simulating the experience of having a learning disability. While the video may be difficult for some to watch in parts, his purpose in teaching patience and compassion shines through. (link- )
This may sound obtuse by comparison but experience suggests that a question may need to be asked about whether there's an elephant in the room... by way of role modeling, has this child seen the teacher yelling at the class in similar circumstances, and might this have influenced her choice of behavior in the described situation?