Just a follow up post on my meetings this morning. I first met with the K-school principal to give her a copy of our psychology's report and to submit a letter requesting early admission to first grade. (It's not been done in our district ... at least not recently, if ever).

I then had a meeting with the director of pupil services (basically the person that manages the GT process) where we reviewed the report and we submitted additional portfolio work in support of the request for evaluation and to also inform her that we're requesting entry into first grade.

It went very well!

The K-school principal was disappointed insofar as she was looking forward to having DS as a student and had already picked out a teacher. The director let us know that basically the request for early admission goes through her and that today she'll write up the letter in support of admission into first. It has to go up to the board level, but the impression that I had is that they take her recommendation. She herself said DS "would be bored out of his mind in Kindergarten". We provided a copy of the report ahead of time and I know she read it because she had highlighted several areas. (She said it was a very good report, which is good.)

We won't have to take another IQ test. Instead the school's psychologist will just write his report referring to our current report. So that's good. We won't shorten the time the process takes, but that is probably okay as DS gets adjusted to school for that first month.

So overall, it was a very positive experience. We should get the "official" notification before the 26th.

JB

Great meeting. What a positive meeting.

I am sitting her a little bit envious. My first discussion with our Vice Principal went that way but as soon as she tried to to go up the chain we were shot down. No early entry, no K grade skipping, no exceptions. Does your district already have a policy and procedure in place?

Yes. In fact the K principal had to go find the policy because it's not been done before...

I think by PA law they have to have a policy, but they don't stipulate what the policy has to be.

One thing that really seemed to help is having lots of documentation, including a psychologist's report. This follow up meeting, with this documentation went very smoothly.

JB

Oh I don't even want to go back to work!

And yes, MAKING the decision was the hardest part. After we made the decision, everything else was very easy in comparison.

I like our director of pupil services. She's been very helpful.

We're very excited for DS! (He will be too as he keeps asking about it!)

JB

What a great start to a school career! Congratulations! I hope it's a good fit for him.

WOW impressed! So in your portfolio you had IQ testing and achievement testing as well, correct?

Yes. SB5 and partial WIAT-II scores. We had to pay for it (it was expensive) but I don't think we would have been able to get support for early entry without it. But, we had planned on getting him tested anyways because we wanted to know where on the spectrum he is.

So I brought

• cover letter
• copy of pysch report which included written opinion, SB5, WIAT-II and a few other tests like for motor skills, etc. Very thorough.
• sample portfolio of past work (mostly advanced math)
• copies of several research papers about acceleration. I did not need them, but I brought them just in case.

I had two different meetings, but that was basically what I prepared.

Part of what helped us, I think, is that we did go into the first meeting back in the beginning of the summer saying "we're not sure which direction we'd like to go" (skipping K or not). And we met with a lot of people. Again, that doesn't work for everyone. A lot of times it sounds like going into the meeting knowing exactly what you want done with your child works best.

As I told them, if we'd know this a year ago we would have asked to start K early. It is actually a very good K program.

JB

Wow. That sounds like an awesome meeting. Congratulations! I hope it won't get killed the way Crisc mentioned. You got a great support and it looks like your son is on his way to the 1st grade. Will this be in place before the school year starts? Paying for the report sure paid off.

We paid for ours and it was worth every penny, but mostly as an eye opener for us and getting to Davidson. As for school one of the teachers finally stopped saying that DS5 was learning because of me and the other moved him much faster through the math curriculum. The director still didn't get it. As far as she was concerned they taught all the kids on their own level anyway and they would always be able to meet his needs. DS5 was in Montessori last year.

Congrats JB dad!! You did good! Can't wait to hear how DS likes first grade!

Yipee!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks everyone. We're very happy & excited. One year at a time There is still more to go with getting the GIEP in place, but we (us and the Director of Pupil Services) do not see any issues. It's just a matter of waiting our turn as there is already a queue of requests. Even without the GIEP in place she's going to reach out to the GT teacher.

I'm really happy with how the meeting turned out. The Director was pointing out areas that might be issues (i.e. handwriting) and then suggesting solutions or assurances. She did this not once, but several times.

We're very fortunate. Down the road, same state, different district, it's a completely different story.

JB

Wonderful, JB! I'm so glad to hear a success story in the public school. Good work.

Yay! Yay! Yay!

Fingers crossed that the board rubber stamps it!

And definitely do leave the door open for further skips. I think you'll probably need them...

Thanks JB. I think this approach might be a good one with our daughter. My kids are starting at a new ability-grouped school next month, but I think early entry to grade 1 would be best for her, given her motor skills and her other abilities. She's pretty much had the K level stuff down for a while, including fine motor skills, and she's not 4 yet.

As I've said, I'll keep everyone posted on this school. All of us are very excited about it.

Val

Great Val, let's keep the good news rollin' in!

Yes, please! More, more, MORE!

That's great, JB Dad. I'm happy that things are looking positive for your kiddo.

I hate to bring this up here, but your story reminds me of an ugly little rumor I have heard, which is that school admins pay more attention to Dads than to Moms. Does anyone want to comment on that?

Congratulations JB Dad. That was a great victory!!

Lorel, I read in one the many gifted books I've picked up...maybe "Re-forming Gifted Education" that the Father really needs to be at the forefront and doing the talking. Unfortunately, my DH works long hours at the lab ... and when out of his element, is quite shy ... I just don't see him going in there being a strong, assertive type. He would just say "What she said..." pointing at me lol.

Hey Lorel, thanks for asking that question. This was in the back of my mind. I was thinking that maybe it may be helpful to have both parents there with the dad being very well versed in GT research and needs. I always felt when I did the talking it was in one ear and out the other at our school.

My husband definitely gets that school doesn't work as is for DS, but hasn't done nearly the research on acceleration and GT needs that I have. He still dances around the "G" word.

My dd's father doesn't believe she is gifted. He would be asking them not to accelerate her...

Yeah, Lorel, I want to comment on that. I don't know if it's true, but if it is, it's of no consequence to me.

I'm currently working with the school for accomodations that will be right for my daughters. And I love my husband dearly, but I would never send him in, he is not as effective a negotiator as I am. It has nothing to do with gender. More indicative of career/life experience and temperment.

It would be a mistake for any administrator to assume I am overinflating my child's needs because I am a doting mother with nothing better to do with my time. It would also be a miscalculation to assume that I'm not resourceful enough to push successfully if a realistic request is met with resistance for no good reason.

With that said, so far my talks with our principal have been met with respectful consideration, even though I feel we have different philosophies on gifted education and said child's needs.

Our talks with the school haven't gone as seemlessly as JB's, however, we have a different animal here, I think, in terms or who I deal with at an administrative level.

I think that me being able to attend helped our case. Hard to say for sure. I know that the psychologist report helped the most. In out initial meetings with the school we got standard answers. Putting ourselves in their shoes (knowing they see parents like us every year), keeping a positive dialog, and then getting our documentation really helped. I know that doesn't always work. In fact if we had a different Director, this might have been a completely different story. It's also unfortunate that there are probably a lot of people who wouldn't be able to get their own psychologist report.

We still need to get that school board approval, but I think we're okay. I think that is just an administrative detail at this point.

JB

Great to Hear, It sounds like the beging of a fix for you. I wish more parents would advocate for their kids.

On the dad issue, I may be way off base. I saw no real differance, but my DW belived their was a diferance in the way they treated me. I never saw it though.

Dads may be less emotional maybe, more structured in their approch. I don't know I am guessing.

I paid about $700 to get for testing for DS and got nothing in way of a report. Scores only ... and there are math errors on the report that still aren't corrected and it's been since March 2008. Got just a sheet w/ scores on it.

DH's presence helped us with the school. I don't think the man necessarily has to be in the forefront of the conversation, but if he's present and supportive, it might matter.

I know that when I talked, they nodded politely and ignored everything I said, just as they had been ignoring everything I said for a month or more. Then DH said, "Hold it! You're not hearing her!" and said EXACTLY what I had JUST said. Word for word! Suddenly, they all exchanged looks and the school made concessions. It was annoying, but at least it was effective.

I think you use every tool in your toolbox to help your child. If you can whip out Daddy for a meeting (and not everyone can), then I recommend that you should. Even if all he does is nod agreement with everything Mom says, it can't hurt. And schools are generally sexist places--they see moms all day long, but not many dads--so his presence might very well might help.

For what it's worth, the Director of our school seemed very responsive when DW and I went in together to talk. Admittedly, we weren't making any demands. But we described our DS4's abilities and asked whether there was anything special he thought we should do beyond allowing DS to work a level ahead (which he had already approved). He had clearly thought about it and laid out what seemed to us a reasonable plan. I did the talking, and that may have been important. But if I had to guess I'd say it probably helped also that DW was there. Somehow it seemed to present a united front.

BB

I don't doubt that it is a benefit to have both parents present. So far, though, I have been the one to advocate. Not because my husband doesn't agree concerning the need, but that he has a high level of confidence in my abilities.

The tester that ID'd the girls has told me that he hasn't seen anyone get as far as I had in obtaining accomodations for our children. He's been working with the school district for many years.

I think the difficulty dealing with the district has more to do with the size of it, and the number of people involved in the decision making. Less to do with the fact that I am a mom and I didn't bring hubby along.

My 2 cents.

Incogneato, I hope that you don't think I was devaluing your ability to negotiate. I simply wanted to hear opinions from the people who have gone out there and attempted to advocate. It's been a long time since I had a child in school, and I wanted to get some feedback on that rumor. It seems that at least some people here feel that having a Dad present at meetings did make a difference. Of course there are too many variables to make any real conclusion, but it is interesting to hear everyone's perceptions.

Bianca, I find it very surprising that your ex denies any level of giftedness in a child so clearly advanced. It makes me feel sad for dd, as her Dad doesn't seem to know her.

No, Lorel, I didn't feel that way. Perhaps there is some level of unconscious bias towards the male parent I don't really know. Maybe I could say it better this way; If there is it is of no matter to me because at some point the school had to have figured out that I wasn't going away. Did I ever feel that I had been "managed", patted on the head and sent back out to play? Maybe, a little at the beginning. But it didn't really matter because it didn't phase me. I simply aquired the information I needed and went back in. And went back in and went back in. I was never emotional or illogical and I think it's unfortunate that anyone would hold that gender based stereotype in this day and age. My husband, who is brilliant, would have been more likely to become emotional and illogical!!

So if I was successful in advocation I think it would be because:

I did a lot of research and talked to a lot of people.

I treated it like a business meeting even though there really is nothing MORE personal than my children!

I never told them what they should do. I merely stated the problems that were occuring, why I thought they were occuring and asked them: What can you do about this?

I was polite and respectful.

I was persistant.

I never ever beat a dead horse. Each time I contacted the school it was from a different angle with more or new information.

Lastly, I didn't try to change their system. Some may be disappointed that this seems defeatest, some truth to it. I just figured out the system the best that I could and figured out how to make it work for my children.

Admittedly, I get a little snarky at the idea that the lone mom may have less efficacy in advocation efforts. I mean, I don't sit in on my husband's meetings with the C.E.O. to offer advice or moral support!

As a side note, at one of the conferences the teacher spoke directly to me even though my husband was there! She didn't even make eye contact with him!

I really don't direct my snarkiness to anyone here or any comments on this discussion. It's just that the idea that a mom wouldn't be taken as seriously unless "the man" is present just floors me!!!!

No offense to "the men" on the forum.......

JB! Yippee!
Thanks for standing up for your child and who knows? Perhaps the school will be so thrilled with the results that they will open the door for other kids who are similarly in need of a skip!

Yippee!

I've noticed that there is a great variety in how schoolies react to parents. Some are frankly sexist. Some are not. Sometimes a father's just sitting and not even saying 'boo' will make a big difference. Because it signals that he is 'on board?' because of sexism? It varies! There is also a variety in how involved both parents get in the whole 'gifted thing' - sometimes one parent, father or mother, will end up with the lion's share of 'thinking about a child's special educational needs.' Sometimes both parents are 'into it.'

I believe that the key is that every positive step is a victory for each family, and may touch many lives that we will never know about.

Smiles,
Grinity

Well, I got a lot of great advice from here. A lot of you guys were great sounding boards.

DS is sooooooo excited that he gets to go to school all day.

JB

... but should I be offended when people always seem to ask... "is your husband really smart?" LOL Just because I can't make a jello mold- people - doesn't mean I'm dna deliquent :-P

Just jello-deficient!

OH no kickball!!!! That's too funny....but I'm not sure how I would take that if someone said it to me. Ha Ha Ha.

I think you pull a cranky face and reply, "No! *I'M* the smart one, thank you very much!"

Wouldn't that be a hoot? LOL! Just imagine the look you'd get and the backpeddling you'd see! Har har har!!!

Youch! That's horrible!

"So what are you saying? The short-and-fat genes must have skipped her generation?"

Ee-yikes!

Ha. There is a long background on why this is the case, but we, in our own little, way fight the sexism issue: You know how schools are generally formal with the Mr. & Mrs. Teacher or Principal. I insist that we introduce ourselves as Mr. Dad and Dr. Mom. That lets them know who the smarty pants is in our family.

JB

Ah, bless you, JBD!

Are there typically parents at school board meetings? I was thinking of going to the meeting where they'll be voting our DS's early admissions. I have been led to believe that this is largely a rubber stamp issue (I don't have any reason to believe otherwise). However, by going if any questions/concerns come up I would be there to address them. It's also have the extra benefit of not having to wait to get mailed the official notification.

JB

We regularly attended our school board meetings usually as spectators. Which was actually somewhat unusual, but if you have the opportunity to do so, I highly recommend it. Obviously, for your case you should. But we learned a lot about the process to get something new into place and how tight the budget really is. As we leave our public school experience, I feel like we really gave it our best shot and have a thorough understanding of the system.

JB: Allow me to pile accolades on with the others. Sounds like you had good counterparts to work with, but the tone of reasonableness and restraint you exercise - judging from your posts on the board - must have at least biased the odds in your favor. This is a good model for those of us who are still heading into negotiations.

Thank you.

JB

Thanks also gratified.

So far things had been working well in our district even when we ran into the typical roadblocks. This board has been immensely helpful in anticipating what those roadblocks might be and ways to work around them. And when appropriate giving me a swift kick in the pants about being in GT-denial.

We're off in the right direction...

Thanks again.

JB

Frankly, the pants-kicking is our favorite part! Good fun!

Ouch Dottie! Sorry ((Pat, Pat))

.

JBDAd - I'm interested in that statement. I think MDs are generally more comfortable with using that title than Ph.Ds. I've never used it. WHen DS was in K, his teacher remarked how much he knows about science, w/out thinking, I said "well, his father and I both have Ph.Ds in science." I kid you not, the man rolled his eyes at me. That was pretty much the end of the conversation. I've kept my degree under wraps since then.

I'm just wondering how you do that w/out coming across as snooty, elitest and starting off on the wrong foot?

With our school, the first time that we met, we had a written request so it was pretty easy to be nonchalant about it (signed Mr. Dad and Dr. Mom). Not to mention that the super is Dr. Super (PhD) and several people that we met with are working towards their PhDs. So we didn't have to be that blunt about it. We just made sure all paperwork was formally addressed. It probably also helps that I am not a PhD (or MD) so I can present it without seeming elitist.

JB

Slight tangent here, but I've noticed this - that the public school principle and teachers insist on referring to themselves as Mr. and Mrs. (actually, only Mrs., since we haven't dealt with any men yet). It's been extremely rare in my personal and professional experience for anyone, except an MD, to ask that a title be used to address them. If you use a title, in fact, you tend to come off as pompous or pandering. So I'm puzzled. Perhaps 'Mrs. Mom' and 'Mr. Dad' is the way to go.

Actually, now that I think back on it, I didn't say "Dh and I both have Ph.Ds in science" I said, "Dh and I are both scientists."
I was just adding that to the conversation with the teacher to explain why DS knows so much about science. I was shocked when he rolled his eyes.

Fitzi - the Principal of one of our schools is Ph.D. and at the "meet the teacher" night, she was introduced as "Dr. Principal."

I haven't met a professor that I'd be comfortable with referring to as Mr. Professor (DW is not currently, although it's likely she'll pursue that course after the children are a little older). My original post was a bit tongue-in-cheek as I have never had to correct anyone. But when the opportunity comes up--and it generally does--it's not hard to politely let them know about DW. Given that school admin's with PhDs are addressed as Dr. So-and-so I'm not sure why we'd act any differently... ?

I definitely don't flaunt that (or what I do). In the non-academic and social world, we don't bring it up unless someone asks.

JB

Wow. This is all a really sad commentary on our society and how an innate quality like intelligence can be called "elitist." Reactions like the eye-rolling one described above say a lot about the mentality of the eye-roller and speak volumes about why so many of us have so much trouble with the schools. I mean seriously, what kind of cretin was this guy?

Also unfortunately, this type of attitude helps drive bright kids out of the public schools.

Sorry, I just had to vent. This was too appalling.

Val

When people do this my DW asks them if they have an eye problem. When they say no, she then mimics what they did and asks them if they are aware that they have this problem. She then goes on at length about how it may be the result of a rare brain condition. When they fall for the bait and ask what condition it is, she TELLS them. The next time she meets them in public, she asks how their brain tumor is doing and if they still have that eye symptom. Most of the time, the non-clued-in people around them ask for more information and she shows it to them. She does it such Southern Belle voice, too. LOL.

your wife sounds sooo cool...

[quote=AustinWhen people do this my DW asks them if they have an eye problem. When they say no, she then mimics what they did and asks them if they are aware that they have this problem. She then goes on at length about how it may be the result of a rare brain condition. When they fall for the bait and ask what condition it is, she TELLS them. The next time she meets them in public, she asks how their brain tumor is doing and if they still have that eye symptom. Most of the time, the non-clued-in people around them ask for more information and she shows it to them. She does it such Southern Belle voice, too. LOL.

[/quote]
Oh Austin, I'd love to see that!
Can you get her to do her bit on a YouTube?
For my Birthday?
Please?

((wink))
Grinity

LOL, how does she keep a straight face?

ROFL! Austin, it sounds like you have a real gem at home. I love it!

Thanks! She does have a firehose on her face sometimes! Some of the things that pop out of her mouth are priceless!

Oh, my! Perfection, Austin & Austin's DW!

BTW, in some other thread when I talked about "playing dumb" about what people are saying when they say something dumb (or in this case, do something dumb!), this is EXACTLY the sort of "dumb" I meant. Calling people on their words and/or actions in a clueless way that is actually FAR more clued-in is right on the money!

I love it!

What's the brain tumor/condition called? I'd love to steal her schtick, Austin!

Its unprintable here. Just pick an adult synonym for cloaca.

What does that have to do with a brain tumor?

Yeah, I'm not following either.