This is more of a complaint than anything else, but it feels like just one more kick in the advocacy.

Last year in 6th grade, some teachers sent an email telling parents that A and B students should not sign up for parent conferences. My boy is on a 504 and we had issues to discuss so I replied advising of the reason. But then, I met several parents of excelling students who felt it was their right to get to know the teachers of their kids and they chose just to ignore the advise.

So, now it's 7th grade. Still with a boy on a 504. Teachers said to the students (or maybe it was on morning announcements) that if you have all As and Bs, there's no need for your parents to meet the teachers, and if you have any Cs or below, please tell your parents we want to see them. So, I ignored it, signing up to see 3 of the 7 teachers. Math because they just got IPADS in school and DS has a windows computer and we are trying to work things out to get the two to communicate (school hasn't given the kids any cables). English because the teacher has given no feedback on writing other than erratic grades that DS doesn't understand and I don't get to see. And Social Studies because DS has had issues printing and getting zeros for assignments that the teacher loses when emailed, promises to fix, and never does.

I just got a call from the counselor telling me the teachers were complaining that I scheduled meetings and would I please reconsider. I almost did, but I told her no, I needed to meet with the teachers.

I know it's silly to justify all the reasons to meet with teachers- a sign of insecurity, and it is, so I guess I'm here asking for strength to feel justified to meet with teachers at parent conference time. Part of me feels like if parents ignore this, then maybe they will realize they need to meet with parents.

I'm wondering if it's related to the large number of students and that teachers don't want to come in on the third day of parent conferences, but I don't know. And honestly, I don't think that we should pay teachers for a parent conference day and then have them strong arm the parents to not come.

Please help me think rationally!

That's completely ridiculous.. and to be honest, I'd be surprised if the majority of the teachers even like this plan. My stepmom who's currently a principal, always loved when "good" students' parents would come in for a conference. It was a welcome break to all the drama/anger/sadness of the rest of the conferences.

IMO, you are thinking rationally. You have specific reasons for wanting a conference with certain teachers and you've made a request. This seems completely reasonable to me.

Besides, using an arbitrary cutoff point to deny access to conferences seems unreasonable to me (and is also a way to ignore good students while focusing on less good students). Surely, A and B students are not perfect, and surely, their parents have a reasonable expectation to discuss these points with the teachers.

Did you let the counselor know that you only scheduled conferences with the C teachers? Since if they were A or B teachers, you would already have the feedback you needed. (semi-joking)

If it's anything like our school district is for middle and high school, the teachers aren't given enough time to fit in all the parents of all their students, and it's also basically a madhouse on conference days.. So I'm guessing that the arbitrary guideline came as a way to try to make time for the kids who were having trouble plus as a way to try to insist that those parents attend. You absolutely have a right to a conferenece with each teacher no matter how well your student is doing in class... but otoh.... you mght actually get more quality and longer time with each teacher if you request to meet at a different time - so that's one way to approach it if the counselor is being a brick wall about meeting on the conference days. For the 504 issues, I wouldn't wait for conferences, I'd be communicating as it comes up.

polarbear

Completely ridiculous! Sorry, it is their job to meet with parents, regardless of the students' grades. I get that they have a lot of conferences to set up, but that is no excuse. You could always respond that if it is a scheduling issue (not enough time slots) you would be happy to reschedule for another day, but you feel that it is important that you meet with them to discuss these issues.

I haven't hit middle school yet, but at our elementary school, spring conferences are "optional". I, of course, always sign up for one anyways though. Even for fall, I think I was a bit of an oddball because I requested a conference with DS's math teacher. He is in accelerated math with a different teacher from his home room, so I could not get answers to my questions from her. From the reaction (not negative, just a little surprised) I think I was the only one who requested this, but why wouldn't I? And why don't other parents?

My feeling on your situation is that it is ridiculous to tell parents that they should be involved and supportive of their children's education and then tell them not to come talk to the teachers. They just need to deal with it. I would thank them for their time and acknowledge that they have alot on their plate, but then emphasize how important it is for your and your child to maintain solid communication between parent and teacher.

Good luck!

What a terrible message for kids who have good grades - you are not worth meeting your parents to talk about how to make the most of your time in the school. Do worse if you want attention.

But I also agree with polarbear - individual appointments when dealing with our kiddos with special needs really does get more accomplished than a stopwatch chat where you're shuffled out finished or not.

Your child is on a 504 and you have issues. If they don't want you to have pt conferences then request that they schedule a 504 team meeting - that way EVERYONE gets to find the time to meet with you to discuss these issues. I'm guessing they would prefer the short conferences with only the requested 3 but who knows...

Too bad for her! If YOU want to see her and YOU have legitimate questions, she has a RESPONSIBILITY to meet with you!

Wow. Sorry, but I can't help but wonder what would happen in the real world if a doctor or nurse said, "I don't want to meet with you. I think you're okay." Or if Joe didn't want to have a meeting with Sam because Joe thinks everything is okay.
Sheesh.

I don't think there should be a hard-and-fast rule that only
C-and-below students have their parents meet teachers, but it is a reasonable guideline. My wife, who attends the conferences for our kids (my work is farther away), thinks they are usually a waste of time, but she feels compelled to go so that she does not come across as an unconcerned parent.

:thud:

Education is a three-way effort between all players involved: parent, child and teacher. Someone needs to educate this individual on the concept of being a team player.

I think it's terrible that a teacher would discourage any parent from meeting with them for any reason. Especially because teachers and administrators are constantly saying that they want parents to be involved, that it takes everyone participating to successfully educate a child, that not enough parents are interested enough and involved enough in their child's education. Aargh! I'm furious on your behalf!

In our school district, we only get one 15 minute parent-teacher conference per year, right about now. You only get the one in the spring if your child is below grade level. I always insist that we meet anyway with my older boy, who is hearing-impaired.
I do sympathize with the teachers since we have like 33 kids in the class and it's a huge time commitment for them to prepare and sit through the conferences. Our school gets out at 1:30 pm (instead of 2:30 pm) daily for one week during the conference time.

in this situation, I would insist on the conference too

... but just wondering, in this day and age, why does anyone even want a conference in person when email seems so much more convenient? When I used to go to my stepson's conferences (he just graduated high school earlier this year), I always felt like I'm "not equal" ... I'm just there to let it all fall on me and the teachers didn't really listen what I had to say anyways. Then when emails became more common I felt more on level with them and actually got a lot accomplished too! AND had a paper trail!

DS4 just started public preschool two weeks ago and their conferences are on Monday. And while he's 2E and I'm sure the teacher and I would have a lot to talk about, I told her I am not going to waste her time since she already let me know by email (when I asked) that he has adjusted really well and there are no issues at the moment. I just asked her to let me know ASAP should anything arise. One or two conferences a year just seem so insufficient!

Although I agree you can get alot done by email, I think it's good to also meet the teacher face to face. Something about the human contact that is different from email. They can also show you their written work while talking to you, which you can't do as easily via email.

I always used to meet the teachers at the beginning of the year during the back to school night. I just never found the parent conferences too productive, especially given the number of parents each teacher had to see on those days. I was just one of many.

As for written work, I was never shown any other than what he brought home from school, so that wouldn't even occur to me as something to ask for during the conferences? hmmm, something to keep in mind for when my two little monkeys are older!

We just had ours yesterday. So frustrating... we had to break up a an actual productive conversation with the SW and spec ed teacher about appropriate differentiation and accommodations so we could all walk down the hall for our 15 minute "conference" with the teacher. She doesn't get it - any of it. Not the giftedness. Not the disabilities. Not the anxiety. Not the big, cheerful, outgoing personality. None of it. I heard how slow DD is to put her things away in the morning. (Yeah, she's dyspraxic - she does everything slowly.) I heard about how amazingly insightful her comments were during a recent discussion about a book. (Uh, yeah, she's gifted that way - remember?) I heard about her "adjusting nicely to second grade" and "feeling comfortable now speaking up which she never was before." (Yeah - right. My unbelievably extroverted child who was just telling us last weekend how relieved she is that the awful public shaming system was *finally* removed from her classroom. "It was awful" and "I was nervous ALL the time". Glad she is feeling SOOOO comfortable in your classroom that you have finally broken down her wall so she can be comfortable contributing to your "discussions".) All we heard about was how DD was doing according to typical second grade standards. Unfortunately n-o-t-h-i-n-g about DD is "typical" for a second grader.

Total. Waste. Of. Time. Ugghhh...

Maybe this above a "C" standard would sound different to parents of more typical kids. In a situation as complicated as ours a 15 minute summary of totally useless information was pretty pointless. It just highlighted how tough a road we have ahead of us.

Because it isn't.
If I email my child's teacher for clarification, and then have further questions based on what her answer is, email could take days. A conversation could take minutes. We've had a recent situation that was cleared up, mostly, with two phone calls. Had it been left to email, it would have taken forever, and escalated exponentially. I'm very glad not to have had that happen.

This happened to us this year with DD8. Her teacher emailed saying that DD's behavior and grades gave her no cause for concern and she did not see the need for a conference. I read it as "I don't want to meet with you and will be annoyed if you insist" and caved. In retrospect, I really wish I hadn't. The especially weird thing about this is that in fact, we aren't getting the message that her behavior is all that great, though grades are very good.

Email is great when you need to hold people accountable. It's also great when you need to make an argument, because it allows you to get all your points across before anyone makes a counterargument, because face-to-face, it's easy for things to go wrong when the other side locks in on one point, and either ignores the others, or you never even get the chance to bring them up. And, it's great for brief communications.

For anything outside of that, human conversation is far more effective. In particular, email is a creativity killer, because it inhibits that organic flow that conversations have.
Also, text comments have a way of being interpreted with a lot more negativity, because they lack the vocal and body signals that clue in the audience to intent. This is part of why flaming is so common.

I agree with the above, and would also add that when you are advocating for a student at school, email conversations may be limited due to the school staff being very careful re what they put into writing due to liability concerns.

polarbear

I only had one parent-teacher conference in 3rd grade because the fall conference was the only mandatory one. This year, for 4th grade, the teachers specifically informed the parents that a conference was not necessary unless the student was not doing well. I don't remmember but I think it might be the same C cutoff. I did not bother with a conference for either DS or DD because I just did not see the point. I also know that there is not enough 15-minute time slots in one day to accomodate all the parents. If I did have an issue to discuss, I would request an appointment when I am not restricted by the 15 minute limit. Particularly in your situation, I would rather have a separate appointment on a different day when you would have your teacher's full attention. With the 504, you should have a lot more leeway to request meetings.

A lawsuit a few years ago by parents who found out with only weeks to go before graduation that their son was failing and wouldn't be graduating has resulted in a GLUT of parent conferences as part of the settlement. Every stinking year from sixth grade through graduation, our schools shut down for three days or have half days for a week to have student-led conferences with their "sponsor teacher" (randomly assigned to x-number of students) where our kids tell us what they want to do when they grow up, the goals they have to make to get there and how they are going to reach those goals. These have replaced the previous - and far more useful - conferences with the actual teachers working with our kids on a daily basis. Now the only way to get a conference is to contact the school counselor and request one ... and that automatically triggers attendance from one of the school's principals as well.

Thus, we've found email much more effective, if only to circumvent the ineffectiveness of what is currently in place.

Sigh--we're facing this again over here. It's conference time, but we got an email from DD's teacher saying DD has straight As and the teacher has no significant concerns, so she feels there is no need for a conference. We are having a great deal of difficulty with DD at home right now, so some part of me wants a lot more info on how things are at school. However, I don't think this teacher likes her, so I'm hesitant to go in and say "Really? You don't see any of xyz negative behavior at school??" Since we also are still thinking she may have ADHD or an ASD (highly functional, if so), I'd also like to ask her for gut feelings on DD's social/emotional function. However, again, I worry about putting more negative thoughts into this teacher's head.

(insert endless thought loop here re: Can she possibly have ADHD if she is getting straight As in a gifted magnet and is only MG??)

One significant trouble area is homework; DD gets about 1.5 hours of it a day, and getting her to do it is a battle. I feel the HW is NOT APPROPRIATE, period, but the school (a gifted magnet) seems to be lockstep in requiring this. DD has no apparent learning issues, so I don't have any reason to request exemption from any of this.

Depending on the child, there's a high likelihood that the teacher does not see any of those behaviors that you see at home. It definitely happened with my DD. When I described the daily emotional meltdowns she was having over spilled milk (yes, literally), they looked at me like I was visiting them from another planet. When I told them how much she hated school, they said she seemed happy. They did describe a child who was shy with teachers and didn't seem to be connecting with the other children, which I don't recognize in my slightly guarded, social butterfly DD (she'll watch you for a bit before deciding if she wants to be friends, but then it's on).

The reason we were talking about two different kids is that my DD was trying so hard to be "good" at school, despite being so unhappy with a whole day of learning zilch. By the time she got home, she couldn't stand the pressure anymore. Several times she didn't even make it in the front door before she blew, and the bus stop was only three doors down.

So, yeah... if your DD is one that puts a high value on "being good" and blending into the crowd, your teacher might be seeing a kid you wouldn't recognize as your own.

Dude- What you are describing is exactly what I dealing with and struggling to manage my ds and about to lose my mind with his teacher. My ds gets in some trouble at school, but wants to be good (ex. Got in trouble yesterday because he didn't want to do "butterfly arms" during a song. Really? I wouldn't want to do that either.) I also notice that his behavior at home gets worse as the week progresses and much better on the weekends. He was my sweet, amazing boy during holiday break. His teacher doesn't believe that he doesn't like school, because she says he's engaged and the first to help. He's just a pleaser. I have taken your advice and have told him that I am working with his teacher to make it better. I very exhausted and frustrated, but still trying.

I agree with others that conferences often are not the best time to ask for an in depth conversation with the teacher. Our conferences tend to be jam packed with data that the teachers are required to share. There usually is no time to talk before the teacher needs to move on to the next family.

I get the impression that you still would like to talk to the teacher. I would send her an email asking for a time to meet outside of conferences. I would list the points that you would like to cover in the email to give her time to process and come up with a response. You may want to say that you understand that things seem to be going well in class but want to make her aware that things at home may indicate your kid is stressed.

I also have kids who can hide when they are miserable. I've had more than one perplexed response when I've brought up that my kid came home in tears or didn't want to go to school. The good teachers want to know when the kids are burying stuff.

See, the thing is, she isn't a pleaser or a hider. So that makes the whole thing more perplexing. However, she does want to get good grades and receive character awards, etc., so it may be that she is adequately motivated by that.

I debate whether or not school is making her stressed. It seems like a v. stressful environment this year, but things do not get better on weekends or vacations. Summer was very bad for us last year.

I guess, in the end, my core question is "Do I want to discuss my doubts and worries and problems with my child with a teacher who has signaled to me in many ways that she does not like DD?" (She doesn't seem to like anyone much, though!)

if that's your core question, then I would say no - why make it worse for DD, you might end up validating teacher's bad attitude or she might bring the new knowledge into classroom dealings with DD.

But I wonder what you think the teacher will provide that will help you at home - I think it would be worthwhile to hear what the teacher says, and maybe subtly try to inquire as to any of the things you are worried about - but its highly unlikely the teacher will provide useful means to correct the problems you are having with DD.

This is probably apples to oranges but last year when DS was getting homework in K and we had not yet gotten an IEP or OT it was EXCRUCIATING! Once we realized this was really something and not just defiance (although there was some of that) I completely changed my attitude about homework. Its still hard and he has more now in 1st (its accelerated so its 2nd grade) as he can turn into a snail and doesn't want to do it and procrastinates. But I have let it go - I no longer stand over him, or even sit with him to do it. He is getting the OT so I have outsourced the working with him to fix the situation - I just do what the OT asks of us when she does. So I am just checking now, he brings me his homework and I tell him to fix this or that, and he does. So 90% of the time its not an issue. the 10% is not fun however!

You obviously haven't had the resolution we have had in that he is getting assistance for something that is a problem and he is getting tools to handle the problem. So I am sure that is frustrating but I would take the grades as a sign that she can manage at this point - I would continue to seek therapy or those types of options in order to find the tools she needs to not be driving everyone insane - but I would really encourage you to let homework go - get out of the firing line - let her take responsibility to do it and live with the consequences.

I don't know if this would work, but you are obviously stressed by what she is doing at home - so regardless of what is going on at school - you need a change at home.

I also wonder how hard it is for her to be so good at school - such that she dumps on you at home - but the summer vacation thing seems to belie that.

DeHe

It's not really a binary proposition, where she either absolutely is or is not a teacher pleaser, but I'd say that if she's focused on winning citizenship awards, she at least has tendencies to please.


The question I would ask here is, "What grade is she in, and how long has she been in an inappropriate learning environment?" Because our experience was that the longer DD was in a bad situation, the longer it took for her to detox. The one year she stuck out the entire school year, first grade, she was... uhhh... better over the summer, but she still wasn't really herself.

After we pulled her out early this year for homeschooling, it took over two months for her to really start becoming herself again. This is two months of knowing she doesn't have to go back to school again, and of actually learning things at an appropriate pace, which is very different from being on vacation.


This sounds like a whole other problem, which may need a totally different approach... like the talk-with-other-parents approach, and/or make-a-formal-complaint-to-the-principal, because if the teacher is generally nasty to all the kids, you're probably not the only parent concerned, and only when several parents complain will the school begin to take it seriously.

"Inappropriate learning environment" is one problem, and "godawful teacher" is another. In combination? Yikes. My condolences.

Well, I wouldn't say that she is in an inappropriate learning environment. Aside from the excessive homework, we are fairly satisfied with what is being asked of her at the magnet. In particular, she is experiencing failure and growth in math, which is huge. She's learning how to get stuff wrong and not freak. The many special projects at this school also allow her to stretch herself.

The teacher is another story. No, we aren't the only parents who are unhappy, but school admin is not likely to be helpful. We have decided to take our lumps, basically. She's a dragon, but a relatively predictable dragon, and in some ways, DD probably benefits from a teacher who will not back down or let her argue her way out of things.


Let me clarify. I don't expect the teacher, esp. this one, to help us deal with the problems at home. I just want to know if she is seeing what we see, and also to check in on DD's social progress as seen by another adult. As far as I can tell, DD is popular and well-accepted, but this surprises us a little, given her emotional immaturity and somewhat combative nature. Also, if we do do more testing (and we probably will), it would be good to know if the school feels it is seeing significant behavioral concerns (I guess not, judging by the teacher's comments...but still).

We have had a few comments about negativity, backtalk, and argumentativeness from the teacher. That's certainly in line with what we see. But it must be MUCH less than we get at home, or DD would be in the principal's office every day. As far as I know she has not received any disciplinary consequences of note all year. They use a blue/green/yellow/red behavior system, or something like that, where we would be notified if she moved down too far.

It makes sense to want to see what other adults see - is there another one you could ask, maybe an adult from an extra curricular activity? Or is there another way to see what she does when you aren't around?

If her personality leans to the snark/argumentative side getting a bit like that in school isn't bad because it sounds like she does understand that it's not appropriate and endeavors to most of the time behave, but not all of the time which is fine since no one is perfect!

But if she is popular, doing well in school it does suggest she is able to control herself when not at home. And you would absolutely know if the school found her outside the norm. Might be worth it to ask her if other kids get in trouble a lot. She might be able to give you that perspective about whether they go easy on other behavior issues.

So then the issue is she letting go of the control it takes to achieve the school and social success or is there something going on between the two of you - a dysfunction of some sort, stuck in a rut of reaction type thing which is separate from a diagnosable LD.

More thoughts, which might be totally irrelevant

DeHe

Yes, you're certainly spot on with the last bit. What we find is that she shows this side of herself with adults she is very comfortable with--a dear friend we've known forever, and relatives after she's been with them for a while. So...I think she does it when she feels safe. It's also the case that sib issues are a HUGE part of our problems at home. She's very jealous of her little brother, who has a pleaser personality and is quite the opposite of DD in many ways. It's bad enough that I will not send them on joint playdates together for fear of what might happen. (She is never physical, but will scream and be verbally out of control.) There's never an issue if she goes solo.

This teacher does discipline other kids (their cards go to yellow or red or whatever it is) so I don't think it's the case that school is going easy on them generally.

Sorry to hear you're being required to advocate for what you're entitled to, mon. Bottom line, I'd attend the conferences and not give a second thought about whether the teachers were pleased or displeased at your attendance. You are not being unreasonable.

Alert! Sympathetic rant follows.

This is another reason why a businesslike approach to educational feedback is needed. Why do publicly traded businesses have quarterly reports, analyst calls, and PR teams? Because feedback matters and drives future value. This is even more true for fostering human capital development. My engagement teams, for instance, have weekly-- sometimes more frequnt-- progress meetings, which are necessary.

I'd like to see biweekly progress e-dashboards that parents can check with updates from teachers. Unlike businesses, parents can't hire agents to monitor their investment. Teachers cannot afford to be so complacen with such a valuable resource in their hands, and parents should never be ostracized for being engaged.

End rant.

Very good rant, Aquinas!!

I am appalled that schools are avoiding parent/teacher conferences. My DD15 makes straight "A"s and is never in trouble in school. I look forward to the conferences to determine what they are studying and what she will study. I pull out any B and ask why she got it. This is one of the reasons our daughter is such a good student and the only 2 times per year that I get into her school life anymore.