Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments I think my DS is going underground already.

I think my son is already starting to underachieve.

He is four. I know that is really young, but as I have posted before, we have really found his behavior is heaps better if I do some sort of school with him. He needs the routine and he needs the stretching. We are homeschooling. Every so often I see him really excited in a quest for learning, but those moments are already getting further apart. He doesn't seem to want to do anything that involves challenge.

An example is reading. We were out at a place we had been to fairly often before and I was stuck outside with my younger boy, so I sent DS inside to get a toy. He came back and said "It won't let me in there." I asked what wouldn't and he said the door. I didn't know what he meant, but when I finally got in there, there was a sign on the door saying that "Children are not allowed in here without adult supervision" So he had read the sign - or at least nutted out enough of it to understand something - yet he insists he can't read. He will insist he can't read words like cat and dog.

He can do addition with counters, but he will guess wildly instead.

What makes this tricky is it is very similar to the behavior of a close family member and it is not a path I'm keen for him to follow.

The options seem to be either I am aiming too low and he is taking that a vote of no confidence or too high and he really can't do what I want him to do. Or both in some weird way

This makes it so tough. The trick is to use it as a warning but not a self-fufilling prophecy. Lots of journaling or other venting or prayer or meditation or whatever you do on this one to see the two situations as related by separate. The last thing you want is to leak anxiousness in your son's direction.


I don't think that it's at all unusual for a 4 year old to go underground. Those do seem to be the options, and the good news is that you can at least shift your aim. Prepare yourself for some temper tantrums - the sound of stuck behavior becoming unstuck.
If you see him do higher level stuff, then he can, at least at times, do it. I think it's normal for the abilities to sort of 'come and go' for some 4s. Take whatever energy you can out of disbelieving yourself - not easy to do when we've gotten little besides that from the world. Keep a homeschooling Log, just to put your unconscious on notice that you are paying more attention to reality now and less to preconceived ideas.

See if you can find a conference to attend - if you are in the NorthEast, there is one coming up April 30-May 1 It takes a village, and that may be what he is waiting for.

Similarly, can you hire a high school kid from the honors classes to feed him ideas from their school. Someone who doesn't know better? What about playing chess with DS? Remember that Middle School Science and History Texts are great jumping off points.

And - if you haven't tried 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook' by Block/Glasser, that's another way to handle the interactions between you and DS4 to be sure you are doing what you can to encourage his greatness.

Is DS more of a precocious skills learner or precocious abstract thinker kind of kid? What were you planning for Kindy?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

When my son was a little younger than yours, he also denied that he could read, despite evidence to the contrary - turns out he was horribly afraid that we would stop reading books aloud with him if we knew. Once we convinced him that we would still read together, he loosened up about it. (We kept the promise, BTW, and still read books aloud together as a family - my son is now 14!)

Another thing to think about is that lots of gifted kids really dislike being asked to demonstrate their knowledge just to "prove" that they know something or can do something. If your child can count, and has shown you this before, he may "guess wildly" because he is feeling insulted that you think he can't, or feeling resistant to be being asked to "perform", or because he thinks it is funny to give an obviously ridiculous answer. We found that playing games that required counting and/or addition and subtraction for success (like Blackjack, backgammon, etc.) were great ways to practice these skills without hitting that resistance.

Thanks, Grinity, wise words. I do doubt myself and I do need a village, and we haven't found one irl yet. My natural inclination with the parenting I have done when they were babies has led me to the more Stiener/unschooling crowd, and gifted is a tricky one with some of them. I think that feeds into my natural fear that I might be pushing him.

I keep saying I must check out that workbook!

I will have to look into those ideas and see if there is something I can feasibly do. We are working under some pretty tight constraints right now. We are not in the US and there do not seem to be many conferences around. There is only one support group in my state, and that has had/is having some issues. I had been thinking about a having a teen to help out a bit actually.

I should say he is nearly 5. We are planning to continue to home school him. We really weren't happy with the schools here. They are dealing with huge social issues, and very low academic performance. One school we were considering had 10 extra teachers to help students who were behind and one to help the students who were advanced. There just aren't many educational services here that I can find.

I think he's an abstract thinker - he puts things together. He notices things. I think he prefers a hands-on learning style. I am currently finding that a bit difficult to implement since it requires so much support from me. I admit I do want him to read because I know that will open up a lot more possibilities for him that he will really enjoy.

Yes, I thought that and we had a huge conversation about it. Maybe he doesn't believe me, LOL!

I like the games idea, he's pretty motivated by games at the moment.

You are not alone. You could be describing my DD (age 4). She is always on the cliff ready to jump into the deep dark hole. I wish I had the magical solution but we are still trying to figure out how to get her past this. Since DD does go to school but isn't getting challenged we have added in 'homework' for when she gets home. I've been pleased with her reaction to all of it. She is excited to do the homework and yesterday even asked for some math. Given how long her school day is we are focusing on reading everyday but on weekends we add in some math. Before starting all of this I gave her an assessment and she is clearly in 2nd grade level work. The sad thing is she was basically there at age 2 but because I freaked out about a lot of this and didn't want to 'push' her and given her personality she didn't move forward. I can happily say that our homework idea is moving her forward and it looks like she is starting to thirst for more. Now if we can figure out how to convince her to speak up in school about wanting to learn more we will have really accomplished our goals.

Ok, done is done. But don't blame yourself too much - development is very uneven for higher LOG kids. I'm sure she was busy developing in other ways.


The thirst is your most reliable guide.
Don't expect her to assertively self-advocate until age 10, it's rare for a child to be able to do it, and rarer for an adult to hear it the 'right way.'
Luckily she has you. You can make videos of her homework sessions and show them to teachers.

Love and more love,
Grinity

Check here for upcoming conferences.
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/conferences.htm

A great picture book might be: www.dinotopia.com/

And if you are what we call locally a 'crunchy-granola' sort raising a Machivelli,Jr sort - get that workbook and use it!!! (I was/am, and not every child thrives under those conditions!)

I well remember dragging my son to the localish Stiener school for summer camp a few summers because it would have been the perfect enviornment for me as a child. Just walking in and smelling the beeswax candles and seeing the little cutting boards - oohhh! But my DS just hated everything about it (although I secretely suspect he learned a few important lessons.)

Wink,
Grinity

My perspective is a little different. For some kids any amount of adult investment is misread by the kid as pressure. So, my suggestion would be don't ask him if he can read and don't engage in struggles over school work that requires it. Give him space to get to the place where he is more comfortable with it. If he responds well to structure and intellectual engagement by all means give that to him - but it doesn't need to be reading words or using counters to do math. We found games were really helpful during this time period. The books by Peggy Kaye - Games for Math, Games for Reading, etc. were particularly helpful.

Katelyn'sMom, Thank you, I needed to hear that. I'm, glad it's not just me.



I understand this. We have been doing things sporadically, but not consistently. I have been trying to leave it him to lead, and he's not really. He just tantrums and fights when he isn't getting enough. I guess I was expecting him to ask with his words, since he is so verbal, and it is only recently I have come to realize that he doesn't really know exactly what it is he needs, so he can't ask for it.

And yes, Grinity, it is the thirst that I have noticed is disappearing a bit. It makes me sad

I am trying to avoid struggling with him over doing things. as PassThePotatoes said, I know I hated to be watched doing things and all of that. I'm just really worried because I don't think I am providing him with ideas at his level. Mostly because I'm having trouble judging that. But the games could work, he is very motivated by games right now.

I'm going to have to think some more, but I am battling some sleep deprivation right now, so I might come back to it.

Thank you.