Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Tiger Mom book-raising superior children?

I had read a few posts regarding an article by Amy Chua and the way she describes Chinese mothers raise their children to be high achievers. Looking on line I found some articles and a lot of controversy, so I decided to buy the book. What an eye opener! I honestly don't believe that most Chinese mothers treat their children the way Amy Chua treated (and treats) her daughters. It is terrible! The girls are not allowed any downtime whatsoever, and they're even kept from spending time with relatives because their practices are interrupted. Not to mention all the verbal and psychological maneuvering (abuse?) the girls were and are constantly inflicted for the smallest infraction.

Now Chua's oldest daughter was accepted into both Yale and Harvard, but I don't equate Chua's method of raising her daughters, (no day off for practice even with a fever, 2+ hours practice even on vacations and overseas), with the best method of raising a child. I'm not saying I have the best method-I don't, I need a lot of help in that department- but Chua is by far one of the most egotistical, emotionally and psychologically cruel mother which I have had the displeasure to learn about.

Sorry to vent, but I don't know what the controversy is all about, Chua obviously cares more about her dogs than her daughters. She cares about the fame and glory her daughters can bring to her and lives her life vicariously through her daughters. Now with her controversial book, she has managed to bring some fame her way. I wonder what's going to happen to her daughters now that she has made their life public, specially the 'rebellious' youngest daughter, Lulu? Has anyone else read the book and feel as indignant as I do?

I haven't read the book, but the excerpts I've seen online have convinced me that I'm never going to pay her a penny to read it. I think there's already a thread here somewhere about it, if you dig around a little.

Cuppy -
I did read the book and I enjoyed it very very much. One of my all time favorites. Yes, she is exaggerating, in the way only a person of Intensity could do. To my ear it is like reading an Anthropologist's report of a high achieving, perfectionistic gifted parent raising gifted children. I loved seeing my son's 'factory settings' being described in a book as she describes her Lulu. I think a lot of controversies among gifted parents revolve around 'did you get a Sophie-style kid or a Lulu-style kid?' At least in my family. Raising my Sophie-style nieces and nephews hasn't' given my siblings much insight into my life raising a Lulu-style kid.

I laughed aloud and kept ribbing my DH, about once a page. It's clear to me that Chua has a tremendous amount of insight into her own behavior, if only in retrospect, and that there is a lot of love between the family members between the cracks of the bad-mommy behavior. And to think I would never have read the book at all if my book club hadn't chosen it.

I can totally understand seeing that one has kids have high needs for challenge, and knowing that they aren't going to be challenged at school, and stepping up to the plate - with whatever resources one has, in this case, some idealized version of one's cultural heritage, and doing things that are considered crazy to all those outside.

I think if she had stumbled onto this forum, we might have helped her see that it isn't because she's a Chinese Mom, but more that she is a Gifted Mom raising Gifted Children that she is being pulled to pull out all the stops. I think if she had just a few of the ideas that we take as a baseline here, she might have been able to make the same choices with less tension and more self-support. But remember, her kids were half grown before we existed.

BTW - I read the book on Kindle, and saw that there were many underlinings in the first third of the book, and almost none towards the end (Not true anymore!) I think a lot of folks read the first third and stopped there. Think 'Confessions of Saint Augustine' - in this style of book, you have to sin a lot before you 'see the light' and start off on a new path.

Moms are human, and we bring to parenting all of our weaknesses and fears. We do the best we can, better than anyone who knew the who situation would expect and there are good moments and bad moments. What's different about Chua, is that she wrote it down for other people to read about.

I'll rename the book: Tiger Mom: Confessions of a Perfectionist caught in an unsolvable problem.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Some of what Amy Chua writes makes her sound extreme (no water or bathroom breaks until a piano piece is perfect?), but her eldest daughter seems happy and defended her in a letter http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/why_love_my_strict_chinese_mom_uUvfmLcA5eteY0u2KXt7hM/1 . I read Chua's book, and my wife is reading it now. The lesson I draw from it is that success in a field takes sustained effort toward higher goals over a long period of time, in addition to talent. I think my boys are gifted in math, and the math they study in school is well below their level. Therefore I should make them work at math almost every day, so they are continually moving forward. They don't need to spend a lot of time, but can learn a lot if they concentrate for even 30 minutes. Below is the letter of Chua's eldest daughter.


Dear Tiger Mom,

You�ve been criticized a lot since you published your memoir, �Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother.� One problem is that some people don�t get your humor. They think you�re serious about all this, and they assume Lulu and I are oppressed by our evil mother. That is so not true. Every other Thursday, you take off our chains and let us play math games in the basement.

But for real, it�s not their fault. No outsider can know what our family is really like. They don�t hear us cracking up over each other�s jokes. They don�t see us eating our hamburgers with fried rice. They don�t know how much fun we have when the six of us � dogs included � squeeze into one bed and argue about what movies to download from Netflix.

I admit it: Having you as a mother was no tea party. There were some play dates I wish I�d gone to and some piano camps I wish I�d skipped. But now that I�m 18 and about to leave the tiger den, I�m glad you and Daddy raised me the way you did. Here�s why.

A lot of people have accused you of producing robot kids who can�t think for themselves. Well, that�s funny, because I think those people are . . . oh well, it doesn�t matter. At any rate, I was thinking about this, and I came to the opposite conclusion: I think your strict parenting forced me to be more independent. Early on, I decided to be an easy child to raise. Maybe I got it from Daddy � he taught me not to care what people think and to make my own choices � but I also decided to be who I want to be. I didn�t rebel, but I didn�t suffer all the slings and arrows of a Tiger Mom, either. I pretty much do my own thing these days � like building greenhouses downtown, blasting Daft Punk in the car with Lulu and forcing my boyfriend to watch �Lord of the Rings� with me over and over � as long as I get my piano done first.


Everybody�s talking about the birthday cards we once made for you, which you rejected because they weren�t good enough. Funny how some people are convinced that Lulu and I are scarred for life. Maybe if I had poured my heart into it, I would have been upset. But let�s face it: The card was feeble, and I was busted. It took me 30 seconds; I didn�t even sharpen the pencil. That�s why, when you rejected it, I didn�t feel you were rejecting me. If I actually tried my best at something, you�d never throw it back in my face.

I remember walking on stage for a piano competition. I was so nervous, and you whispered, �Soso, you worked as hard as you could. It doesn�t matter how you do.�


Everybody seems to think art is spontaneous. But Tiger Mom, you taught me that even creativity takes effort. I guess I was a little different from other kids in grade school, but who says that�s a bad thing? Maybe I was just lucky to have nice friends. They used to put notes in my backpack that said �Good luck at the competition tomorrow! You�ll be great!� They came to my piano recitals � mostly for the dumplings you made afterward � and I started crying when I heard them yelling �bravo!� at Carnegie Hall.

When I got to high school, you realized it was time to let me grow up a little. All the girls started wearing makeup in ninth grade. I walked to CVS to buy some and taught myself how to use it. It wasn�t a big deal. You were surprised when I came down to dinner wearing eyeliner, but you didn�t mind. You let me have that rite of passage.

Another criticism I keep hearing is that you�re somehow promoting tunnel vision, but you and Daddy taught me to pursue knowledge for its own sake. In junior year, I signed myself up for a military-history elective (yes, you let me take lots of classes besides math and physics). One of our assignments was to interview someone who had experienced war. I knew I could get a good grade interviewing my grandparents, whose childhood stories about World War II I�d heard a thousand times. I mentioned it to you, and you said, �Sophia, this is an opportunity to learn something new. You�re taking the easy way out.� You were right, Tiger Mom. In the end, I interviewed a terrifying Israeli paratrooper whose story changed my outlook on life. I owe that experience to you.

There�s one more thing: I think the desire to live a meaningful life is universal. To some people, it�s working toward a goal. To others, it�s enjoying every minute of every day. So what does it really mean to live life to the fullest? Maybe striving to win a Nobel Prize and going skydiving are just two sides of the same coin. To me, it�s not about achievement or self-gratification. It�s about knowing that you�ve pushed yourself, body and mind, to the limits of your own potential. You feel it when you�re sprinting, and when the piano piece you�ve practiced for hours finally comes to life beneath your fingertips. You feel it when you encounter a life-changing idea, and when you do something on your own that you never thought you could. If I died tomorrow, I would die feeling I�ve lived my whole life at 110 percent.

And for that, Tiger Mom, thank you.

I hope other people see the beauty in this - for me, being loved isn't about polite empty praise,(especially from the people who love and know you the most intimately) it's about knowing an other person. I'm starting to appreciate polite, but I'd 1000 times rather be seen and known for who I am. This is a key issue for gifted people in general, since they get so much praise for non-accomplishments.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I still hesitate to buy the book but this thread is making me reconsider. When I first read the article I didn't jump to angry mode but was disturbed by how close it hit home. My DD takes piano and is really good for her age but we struggled with getting her to practice and it became a standoff between two stubborn souls. I still haven't figured out what to do about it and have stopped pushing it because she is doing well in her lessons but a time will come that she will need to practice and how are we going to tackle this issue?

BTW: the card comment made me laugh. I have a similar experience with my mom, who is the further-est from a Tiger Mom. We always had to do a Mother's Day present in school and when I was in 1st grade I had a crush on a little boy who was proud of his artistic abilities. Not wanting to show him up, I purposely threw together a cheesy picture that would go into some plastic mug. When my mom received the present she didn't gush over it, just the opposite. She was upset by it all and sat me down and said how disappointed she was in my drawing and that she knew I could do so much better. I certainly wasn't hurt by her rejection of the piece because I knew it wasn't up to par with my abilities. Most parents would be horrified to hear of a mother rejecting a present from their child but my mom was rejecting my lack of trying.

I just finished reading it and heard the self parody she mentioned in interviews. She mentions she was overconfident in her parenting and lacked self questioning. Her youngest daughter made her realize the importance of listening to her child.

I didn't see the book as a manifesto on how to raise children but a reflection of a mother who learned to recognize the difference between unhealthy perfectionism and excellence. The scene that really highlighted this was when they were in Red Square and she said, "You win. It's over. We're giving up the violin." It was a perfectionist's "all or nothing" thinking and her daughter responded, "I don't want to quit violin. I just don't want to be so intense about it."

LOL - I was a Sophie most of the time, with some Lulu thrown in. My sib was absolutely a Lulu - so I saw the value of bending to get what I wanted rather than resisting to get what I want. I had just enough Lulu to resent mightily the pressure and the lack of choice - but like both I understood that what they fought for was meaningful. Not sure yet what DS 5 is, he has elements of both.

What I learned from my parents - thankfully prior to parenting rather than during like Chua was that parenting style must age with the child - the tiger parent approach (although with bathroom breaks ) in my estimation better serves the young grade schooler - I hated the implicit assumption in high school that without the restrictions I would not work hard, it basically IMO diminished me and my ability to understand the need to achieve and keep working. parents answer was it was too costly to risk that I would do it. I like Lulu reject that notion. Interestingly, Sophie's letter indicates she felt the same, just fought the battle differently.

Personally I found it very interesting.

DeHe

Never say never MON ((wink)) - And I'm not saying Chua is going to win 'mother of the year' - but right or wrong she is becoming who she is becoming, with grace, humor and love for her kids.
It doesn't work to make a rule: "All good mothers would react X in Y situation."
G

I, too, was appalled by the excerpts!

I got the book to see if it was really THAT bad.

Before I even opened the book, I read the (really long) subtitle, which says up front that she learns from her daughter and is humbled! (The subtitle is: �This is a story about a mother, two daughters, and two dogs. This was supposed to be a story of how Chinese parents are better at raising kids than Western ones. But instead, it�s about a bitter clash of cultures, a fleeting taste of glory, and how I was humbled by a thirteen-year-old.") None of the excerpts mentioned that one of the main points of the book was that the author learns what works and what doesn't work in controlling children and developing their skills!

I found that the author has a subtle and wicked sense of humor (and thus is definitely easy to misunderstand!) Very self-deprecating. She learns a lot and has bad moments. And some things are just misunderstood (e.g. she calls herself a "tiger" mother because she was born in the year of the tiger).

My final conclusion: this book has been really misunderstood. It is complex, the author is sometimes a disingenuous narrator, and has an unusual sense of humor.

I heard Amy Chua interviewed on Northcountry Public Radio and she was hilarious, warm, friendly, and quite human! This is a complex and interesting text (not a simple parenting book). I ended up amused!