Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy creative ideas rejectd/ how to teach self advocacy

this has come up before for my ds10, and lately a bit more often: when in a group school or club setting he very often feels that his ideas get summarily rejected without real consideration.
This seemed to him to be case when working within the odyssey of the mind team, although they did accept at least one of his ideas and he got to work on his costume separately so he was able to have some of his own expression going in the final skit.
he is a different sort of fellow, to be sure, and fairly sensitive (not the most sensitive of boys, but definitely up there).
Creativity seems to be his real 'hallmark', whenever he gets compliments from the gifted teacher, the odyssey coach, etc., and I suppose if he has begun to identify himself with this, he might be expecting too much in terms of group agreement about how great his every idea is.
Granted, being 10, a lot of his ideas are just loony
but anyway, the point of the post is, are there things we can do to help him advocate for his ideas and if/when rejected, get better at just rolling with things and feeling ok about it?

I do notice, and have heard from ds, that in these groups there are usually one or two kids who will take the lead and without proper adult supervision tend to run things completely 'their way', I sat through 10 minutes of an odyssey meeting with one boy just saying no to both ds and another boy, about 10 times each as they tried to come up with a skit. I finally pointed out that he was only writing down what he came up with, and saying no to everyone else who was trying to contribute. He backed off a bit, but of course I'm not around for most of this stuff.

Now as I write this it occurs to me that ds should at least try to be the 'scribe' for these activities...maybe that is one way to feel more involved and in control some of the time. (not all the time, but might be one idea to move towards a solution).

Please let me know what you think, other ideas, similar stories would be helpful.
thanks!!

That's a tough one Chris1234!
10 is very young to be able to deal with those sorts of dynamics.
To be honest, I think the best thing you can do is sit and listen to the kids and Praise every time any of the boys appreciates any of the other boy's ideas. Soon you'll get them competing to see who can be the best listener/appreciator.

Maybe soon is too optimistic, how about eventually?

Love and more Love,
Grinity

In a perfect world our children would be taught how to work in a group---waaay before they start getting graded on group projects. Good for your son that he is getting started early.

We had a technique that seemed to work well with our DI team. We had brainstorming rules. Every comment/idea was written down, as the kids were saying them---without any criticism or comment---Nothing was too out there. Often one "off the wall" comment lead to another which lead to another... Most of the best ideas were generated this way. Even if your child's idea isn't the one they ultimately choose, he will know that his idea was heard.

The minute a participant starts commenting or criticizing or judging the comments, the "flow" stops. So it's imperative that they understand this part the rules. They can set a time limit. We usually just let the ideas happen and cut it off when they dwindled down.

Once all the ideas are on the board, the kids can talk about the ones they think they can implement best. I remember kids saying "that's a really cool idea, but I don't know how we could do it"... It led to good discussions.

This is one of the hardest things for kids to manage. I hope the adult coaches don't let them handle it all by themselves.

Having worked in corporations, there always seems to be two groups of people. I don't know what to call them, but I'll just call them group 1 and 2. If the whole group is led by certain group 1 members, then group 2 members are often excluded for no apparent reason. Leaders from group 2 include everyone. There are no obvious physical or personality characteristics I can identify as a source of separation. I have some ideas, but I don't want to speculate.

Changing leadership (in your case, have another child or maybe an appropriate adult ultimately in charge) or having someone taking the role of coach seems to be the only ways I know of to solve this. I am a group 2 type and take on the role of coach if I see this happening. It is not that I am assigned the role, I just can't keep my mouth shut when I see these things happening. To avoid conflict, I don't make it overly obvious I am doing this though. One trick I have learned to get out information to the group 1 types is to put it in the form of a question.

I figured this was an appropriate opportunity to put out one of my less likely to be believed observations. As good a time as any to have an idea get summarily rejected without real consideration (couldn't resist the opportunity for humour).

<nodding> Yes.

Some of this technique can be TAUGHT, though, as a means of working productively with difficult people. If you allow the OTHER person to 'approve' your idea (ie-- via asking it as a 'question') then you stand a much better chance of gaining cooperation with people who have a need for control.

"I think that we should _________."

versus

"Hmmm. I might be off-track, here, but has anyone mentioned _____________?"


I also like to use "Explain please" statements-- but this requires something that many gifted children REALLY struggle with-- a willingness to look as though they are NOT the EXPERT.

"Is there a reason why we can't try ________?"

"I don't think that I understand __________ here; can someone explain it to me?"

The questioning and self-effacing statements defuse potential 'social challenge' in idea presentation, making it easier for socially dominant (or controlling) people to hear and acknowledge them. Those strategies are REALLY effective as communication tools when used well.

(It took me a long time to learn these things. I'm a naturally pretty assertive person, but that did NOT work well as a communication strategy when I was both a young faculty member and a female one in a department of older men. So my choices were to adapt to be more effective or to simmer with resentment about not being heard. Easy decision. )

I've learned to do this when I have to, but I HATE doing it! I really annoys me that people can't just accept or reject an idea on it's merits alone instead of looking at who is saying it. It really irritates me that I have to spend time pandering to some (usually masculine) ego. Why should it be my problem that he can't cope with a good idea that doesn't come out of his mouth?!!?

LOL! I know that is a bit OT and it's just a vent. I see the need for it, but it still bugs me.

As a child I took the path of least resistance. I remember multiple times when I just let the group get the wrong answer because the effort involved in convincing them wasn't worth it. Was it a good strategy in the long term? Not so sure about that. It certainly lead to frustration, and possibly contributed to the low self-esteem I had in the following years. Or maybe it was a symptom of it?

I like the idea of writing down all ideas and then hashing through with some rules of thumb such as 'could we really make this?'.
A lot of this does remind me of ways to get through a work meeting.
I myself don't lack confidence at work, and end up probably annoying the hell out of people, but I do try to listen, make a point to even tell the real loud mouths to hold off when one of the quieter folks is trying to get a word in edge-wise.
...as an aside, this reminded me of a specific meeting where I was trying to describe a process to a group of people via a diagram on paper when this one guy interrupted me to try to get the paper and draw it himself, so I literally had to hold down the paper on the table and probably looked like I was trying to protect 'my precious'; I was a bit over the top about it, trying to inject some levity, and everyone laughed, but I thought, are you REALLY gonna just take this paper out of my hand because you are sooo in need of control??

As to saying something in the form of a question, although I have consciously done it when necessary, it sure is annoying to have to do an end-run around somebody's ego that way! Sheesh!!

More clear/assigned duties & rotation of duties are great ideas too; thanks all! eager to see if there are any more insights.

HowlerKarma,

Caught the nodd. Great examples. I think teaching this early could be of great benefit. Definitely the controlling types was what I was referring to. In my case, I was a natural at working my way around this since school age started. However, I only became consciously aware of what it was I was doing later in life.

GeoMamma,

Interesting, never occurred to me people and especially women may have stopped speaking up over frustration of it not being effective. Never thought of this side of it. I am often frustrated by being the only person to speak up. Usually I wait as long as I can with the hope someone else will speak up. Although I also don't bother saying anything if I realize it is pointless. My stubborness is what keeps me from ever giving up entirely, although the frustration is starting to wear thin on me.

Yes, a tangent off the topic, but it relates in some ways. Hopefully the many children who find themselves experiencing their ideas being ignored will not be so discouraged to eventually stop telling them.

I feel a bit better hearing others speaking of these things.