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Hi
Would love some advice. I'm torn between I am worried about nothing and this is tip of iceberg stuff

DS5 is a wonderful kid, pretty well behaved, and mostly into his own stuff and doing his own thing. To the point where other kids have actually said something to me about him being weird - some of it we have worked on - he tends to stick himself in people's faces to get their attention -and mentions his pretending appropo of nothing - so some kids clearly just don't get him and find his approach off putting. A few kids in his class like him and his stories but most of the time he has to adapt to play with them. Or he chooses to read by himself.

However, I'm starting to worry a bit how he is choosing to handle not fitting in. In some cases I suspect he goes out of his way to be odd to sort of drive them off. But in my observation he is not usually intentionally mean first - and the teachers don't report that he is. But how he reacts when the kids are mean to him makes me a bit concerned. I've now seen him twice when kids haven't been nice to him strike back - its not physical ever - but almost insidiously cruel - quite cutting in a remark to another child. If he were an adult it would have been like, whohoo, nice shot. But he's 5! On both occasions the comment itself was factual but had the desired effect and popped the other kid like a balloon.

He told an older boy over the holidays who had been taunting him all day about not being good at stuff physically - "yes I can read - and with my mouth closed too." I was stunned by how effective it was. The kid, who didn't read anywhere near as well as DS, and often by reading out loud, just slunk away.

Is it good to be able to handle things this way - is it a problem only if he is mean first to other kids. I'm not sure what bothers me - I am sure he knew the effect it would have - and I could tell he was pleased by the effect. Is it wrong to successfully "fight" back like that? Its almost a weird use of EQ.And it feels to me rather like revenge - plotted and planned for.

Maybe its just the using of the big brain for evil??

DeHe

I understand exactly what you are saying b/c I myself am capable of doing it. He is being defensive and lashing out in the best way he knows how its just that he has the intelligence to know exactly where to hit metaphorically. This seems like a frustration in not being with intellectual peers but age mates. Some social skills and role playing may be needed. He may need to be shown or taught empathy and how to put himself in their position. It is not always simply absorbed. He is a smart little fellow but still just very young.

DeHe, I'm not sure how much of a problem it is. I'd say right now it's more of a molehill than a mountain, mostly because he's young and still learning his way in life. He just simply doesn't know yet that this isn't always the socially acceptable way to respond, and as far as he knows, it's an effective way to respond. I can say that I'm impressed by his ability to synthesize ideas and emotion and language to come up with some effective retorts!

In the long run, though, it is something I think you could address. When you become aware of a situation like that where he has stood up for himself in this way, I would have a conversation with him about how you're glad he stood up for himself, and you know it was hard for him to put up with the negative situation, but there are some other ways that he can handle a situation like that in the future. He can wait less long to stand up for himself, and perhaps that will allow him to respond before he has reached a high level of frustration or anger. He can simply state how he feels about someone doing or saying something mean to him. He can learn to tell an adult if he has already tried to tell the tormentor to stop and it hasn't worked. And, he can try to remove himself from the situation if he can. It would probably help to role play.

But again, he's 5. He's a smart little guy, but inexperienced in life. Luckily, he has you to guide him and teach him. So I wouldn't jump right to "mountain" just yet!

Vicam
Interesting, empathy is definitely not his strong suit, he has to be shown so and so is feeling how you were feeling when x happens. And then he gets it but it's not yet natural he does that at home, playing with DH, I'll come in and he will say you can't come in or we are playing and you can't. We've had to explain to him that preempting me just hurts my feelings when he didn't even know that I wanted to participate. So in his mind it's clearly all about him because his intent was not to be mean just to continue to do what he was doing. I am hopeful that for k he will be with kids more like him, or at least sort of similar. Won't hear about k for awhile but are looking into activities. He's not an unhappy kid so sometimes it's easy to overlook what it's like to be without true or somewhat close peers. Thanks!

DeHe

Thanks for the support mnmom23! It is so nice when people respond to the "please tell me I am not crazy posts" its very soothing particularly when you can't say this stuff to most people. I think you and MON (thanks too MON) hit the nail on the head that as a response to mean behavior or a bully it's not bad, certainly better than anything physical and with bullies from all I read not showing weakness is key. But it's the use of it, not being mean first, trying to be empathetic and trying other behaviors to put a stop to it.

It was interesting also that you were impressed by his ability to do it - I think that was part of my reaction too which was immediately followed by I can't be proud of that!!! And I'm not except it did show a sophisticated understanding of the kid, and their respective skill sets. Most of the time it seems like stuff rolls off his back, but maybe it doesn't, maybe I need to be teaching him how to let things go so he doesn't stew and then get all revengy.

DeHe

DeHe,
I'd agree with mnmom23 - its still a molehill.
My DD8 was the same way at 5. She had an amazing ability to cut people down verbally without realizing that she was being as mean as it came out. Often times when we talked about it afterward she would be in tears realizing that she had actually been as mean, if not meaner to the other person than they had been to her. She didn't understand the social cues either in terms of telling people they couldn't play before they had even asked to play. However, she would get very upset if she witnessed a person being as verbally cutting as she was to others. It was a strange situation.
I am happy to report though that she did grow out of it, and now there are very few times when she resorts to that sort of come back. (Unless of course it is with her little sister, but I know we all behave differently with little siblings than with others. )

I'm not diagnosing your child online, but the difficulty in reading social cues, the lack of empathy, the lack of coordination--as the mom of a child with Asperger's Syndrome, this screams out at me.

I'd watch the child's social development, and seriously consider getting an evaluation if things don't improve. These children often sound like "little professors" and often have some very impressive academic skills, so they don't always seem "autistic" at first.

Katespeare
Thanks so much for sharing your concerns. I have had a lot of worries about DS since he was a preemie but aspergers and autism are not on that list. He actually doesn't have trouble reading social cues when he wants to, which seems to be with adults and kids who are intellectually where he is. It's his age mates that he has trouble with. And I actually thought his comments indicated he understood what would bother someone which suggests he gets how those comments hurt. He did it deliberately not because he didn't know better or didn't understand but to make the person feel as badly as they made him feel.

In terms of empathy, he is not one of the more empathetic kids in his class but I wouldn't say he is abnormally unempathetic. I was say on that scale he seems very
much like the boys In his class. As for the lack of coordination - did you mean because he needed OT for fine motor? We actually did it for 8 weeks and the. Had to stop but it
actually served it's purpose as it got him writing. He is now writing daily and is much
better than he was in august when diagnosed.He also is tremendously affectionate, likes to be touched and cuddled, makes great eye contact, particularly when he wants to make sure you are listening.

In posting, I was asking about how he was choosing to handle the situation when faced with someone being mean, and in thinking about the responses, my focus was really on whether being able to be that pointed and in effect successful verbally was something I needed to curb as inapprpropriate.

DeHe

Kerry - that is great to hear - although I am not so willing yet to say that DS didn't mean to be as mean as he was - I wonder though if the fact that he was just saying what was true made it "okay" in his mind. Thanks for sharing the BTDT, it's comforting!

DeHe

One of my concerns would be the way "mistreating" other children is viewed these days. All schools around the world have "no bullying" policies. If kids' feelings get hurt with his whitty responses, they may feel bullied.

As for the way he reacts, I think it's his "normal" personality. Sarcastic, dry sense of humor that we as adults might gravitate towards, but that which a "normal" 5 year old won't even understand let alone "accept", if that makes sense.

So imo, even when there's a little intention behind it, it's not a huge issue for your DS and his personality. However, it could be a mountain if it's read incorrectly by the wrong person.