Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional 2E and achievement testing

Any ideas or advice out there on how to get achievement testing for someone with visual, motor, and speech deficits that doesn't just measure the fact that they have visual, motor, and speech deficits?

On a related note, has anyone had success getting the College Board to agree to the use of a keyboard for the writing section of the SAT? I know that the ACT explicitly states that they only allow a keyboard for testers who are physically unable to hold a pencil, which does not describe my son, but using a scribe is problematic because of his speech issues.

He took the ACT without any accommodations last year at age 13 and scored 31 in reading, 23 in Science, but only 12 in Math and 21 in English, as he could only finish about 1/4 of the math section due to how slowly he writes out problems, and he had difficulty completing the English mechanics items because he couldn't scan them very well.

We just completed an LD evaluation which should help in getting accommodations, but the accommodation which would be most helpful to him, which is to take the test in a computerized format where he could zoom in on visually difficult items and where he could use a keyboard for his writing and math, is apparently not yet a reality. Any suggestions?

This could change really soon now that it's my kid who needs it...

I like your attitude

Thanks so much for the support. It is good to remember that we are not alone.

Achievement testing is one of the problems for us since my son's fine motor disability and low muscle tone would cause difficulty with filling in lots of bubbles and in completing timed tests. My son asked me why people with "output disabilities" are not given the accommodations they need. I don't know the answer to that.

A first grade teacher at our public school thought my son was highly gifted and talked me into homeschooling him because she felt he would not receive an appropriate education at our school. She told me not to worry about how we would afford college without me going back to work because he could take the ACT and SAT and make high scores which would qualify him for scholarships. I don't think she realized that his disabilities might hurt his chances of making a high enough score. I will not let him take the ACT or SAT without accommodations. We might just have him study for college classes at home and take CLEP tests for college credit since those tests are done on a computer and he can take it when he doesn't have a migraine. If he does college classes this way then I don't think he will need the ACT or SAT, but I still wonder how we will be able to afford college. It would be nice if he could get scholarships.

But first I need to make sure my son learns everything he needs in order to be successful in college and it seems our state legislators are trying to make this more difficult. My son recently wrote a letter to a state senator who is trying to restrict our rights as homeschoolers. He very articulately described the reason he was homeschooling and why it is important for him to have the freedom to learn the way he learns best without government restrictions.

I think we are going to work through an online Partners in Policymaking course which was designed for people with more severe disabilities but I think will also be useful in learning to advocate more effectively for kids like my very bright and articulate son with hidden disabilities.

Absolutely there are kids who need accommodations and can't function without them. That said, especially for kids with more moderate fine motor delays (kids who can hold a pencil and make marks, who can write some but who tire easily, who can sit in a chair, etc.) I would really encourage parents to keep as many options open by also pursuing other treatments including OT, PT, core strengthening, etc.

I would also encourage parents of younger kids who have not already done so to research exactly what is required before you panic and conclude your kids won't be able to take standardized tests. The ACT requires bubbling 215 answers over about a three hour period and it includes breaks. The essay is optional (a few colleges require it, but most don't).

Lori - you have described your son as being able to write in class essays by hand and to type online for hours with friends. Most kids who are capable of those thing would certainly have enough muscle tone to be able to bubble in 215 bubbles over a three hour period. ACT prep books including sample tests are readily available free from the public library. He could take a sample test on a day when he's feeling well and you could see how he does before you refuse to let him take the test.

Again, I understand the process of seeking accommodations can be expensive and especially difficult for homeschoolers. Some families will have absolutely no choice but to do so. But, I think it does kids a good service to help them have as many options as possible. (and I say that as a parent of a child who had a severe diagnosed fine motor delay and dysgraphia and who ended up being able to take standardized tests without accommodations thanks to OT and work.)

Passthepotatoes,

I absolutely agree that OT, PT, and teaching compensatory strategies should be a top priority for families with children who have motor issues, dysgraphia, perceptual deficits, and other input, processing, or output challenges. It has taken years of intensive (5 days a week plus home program) OT, PT, and vision therapy to get my son to the point where he is. We continue to work on his visual and motor skills and strategies on an on-going basis.

If you can help your child develop the skills to be able to manage a test like this without needing accommodations, that should absolutely be the goal - not because then you won't have to fight the testing companies (although that is certainly something you want to avoid if you can), but because those skills are going to make the rest of your child's life so much easier. I am thrilled that my son can now manage to write down a phone number if someone calls while we aren't home - even if it takes him 5 minutes to do it, and he is the only one who can read it back to us. I'm not being sarcastic, BTW - it really is a big deal.

We have never accepted the idea that these kinds of disabilities should just be accommodated without attempting remediation if remediation or rehabilitation is at all possible. I think that that is cruel. It could permanently close off a lifetime of options and opportunities that might otherwise be open. But we have also never accepted the idea that disabled children should have their intellectual gifts dismissed or ignored because they can't develop their visual and motor skills to a high enough level to compete with non-disabled peers without accommodation, which is, unfortunately, an attitude we have encountered frequently.

It is great that you have been able to make such a strong commitment to getting your son therapies and that you have seen improvements. While we are not all going to end up in the same place with the same level of function, all progress is meaningful. Like your example of your son writing down the phone number, that is something that will make a difference in his life.

I wish I could say that your level of commitment is the norm, but unfortunately it isn't what always happens. I've seen quite a few families simply bowing out by for example embracing soft dysgraphia diagnoses for kids as young as six and seven as a sign that they should shift 100% over to keyboarding and not keep up continued efforts to build fine motor strength and skills. I hate to see doors closed like this.

There should be accommodations available and hopefully there will be as kids need them. However, even in the best environment that provides all of the accommodations the student requests, it can still be a rough road for students and these challenges do make daily life harder. Anything parents can do to get kids therapies and services to help them maximize what they can do will pay off down the road in keeping more options open for the child.

Of course!

Not that it is an answer for everyone, but just as a practical note what it is worth if your kid does find on bubble tests he does have the option now of taking the ACT without the optional writing section. So, whether you can resolve accommodations or not he will be okay. AP tests would be a huge problem though.


Of course that makes no sense. We may be talking past each other. My belief is there needs to be a balance in a kid's life between working on deficits that can be improved upon, and developing areas of strength. It is a gigantic and all too common problem when the only challenge in a kid's academic environment is in areas of deficit (as in hey kid nothing new to learn in math, but here's hours of handwriting).

Over many years in homeschooling communities I've become equally concerned about the outcome of only focusing on areas of strength and not providing needed supports for kids to develop in other areas - whether those are simply areas that don't come as easily or areas of actual disability. I've been in homeschooling groups where a huge percentage of boys are being excused from any activity that would involve them touching a pencil. Parents have said it is an unnecessary skill because they will just type in college. Certainly there are kids this makes sense for, but often these are kids who haven't had assessments or any therapies. Yes, schools share some blame there. Parents really should not assume their kids will be able to get accommodations and this is a reason not to pursue therapies in the many cases where therapies can make a difference.

I agree that we need to let kids show their strengths. I don't think anything is more frustrating than to have something to say or show and not having a way to express it.

I also agree that we need to help them reach the highest level of functioning they can, within reason. I don't think any child should have to wait to show what they know if there is a reasonable means for them to show it now, but I don't think anyone in this thread has been arguing in favor of that position, only arguing that the opportunity for real rehabilitation, where possible, shouldn't be ignored.

My son has had accommodations for his disabilities in place during almost his entire education (one of the many reasons we homeschooled), but he has also had OT and PT and vision therapy. I don't think it should philosophically be an either-or situation. Every family has to carefully consider what the best balance for their child is, taking into account the nature and severity of the disability, the outlook for rehabilitation, and the time, energy, and resources available to the family, as well as the personality of the child. There is no one-size-fits-all plan.

I know I sometimes get so frustrated by having to fight and fight for reasonable accommodations in activities and settings that are away from home, and from having to listen to well-meaning people who insist that a soft pencil grip would solve all of my son's problems because it really helped their neighbor's cousin-in-law's stepchild, that I have a bit of a knee-jerk defensiveness about the topic, and I know from talking with others in similar situations that that I am not alone in that.

Sometimes, my awareness of how hard my son has to work to show what he knows without accommodation blinds me to some extent to what he is really able to accomplish on his own, particularly when it really matters to him. There is no doubt that testing under those conditions did not allow him show everything he can do, but even so, he did well enough to get access to the highest level of the Duke TIP summer program's humanities courses. It didn't get him access to most of the high-level science courses, which disappointed him, but I would not have predicted that he would have been able to do even what he did under those conditions. I had been really tempted to forgo testing until we could get current documentation because I thought that he wouldn't be able to manage it. I'm glad I didn't wait. Sometimes, our kids can surprise us. I think we should give them the opportunity to do so.

Reading back through the thread, I'm not finding any evidence that anyone here thinks that kids who need accommodations to show what they know shouldn't have them, or that kids who can benefit from therapy shouldn't get it. It's a refreshing change!

He does have an ACT prep book. I have always let him circle answers instead of filling in bubbles because I always thought the correct answer to the question was the important thing, not the ability to color in lines of little bubbles. He enjoyed the Nintendo DS SAT prep game a few years ago. He used to enjoy taking tests like this at home before he started getting frequent migraines and back pain.

Even if my son didn't have a migraine the day of the test the three hours it takes to do the test would be a problem for my son, even with short breaks. His brace causes pain when he has to sit for a long period of time. I think chronic pain is his biggest learning disability, but when allowed to work around the pain he does very well. His writing comp class is one hour, once a week, and he is very tired by the end of the class. He makes A+ on most of his assignments but if it were a three hour class it would be very difficult for him. His musical theater class is three hours. He had to miss an entire rehearsal last week and the week before that he could only make it through about a third of the rehearsal because of migraines and back pain. He only had back pain yesterday so he was able to stay the entire time but had to sit out and watch the class as they were learning the new dance. He always learns it in time for the performance. Somehow in the last few years he learned how to remember the dance routines even though he is sitting out and watching some of the time and is actually getting less practice than the other kids, something I didn't think he would be able to do with motor dyspraxia. Since he was able to figure out how to learn quickly in an area of weakness on his own I think this learning disability will not be that much of a problem for him in later life. Pain is the real problem. At home he takes a lot of breaks, often lying down when his back hurts. His iPad and netbook allow him to keep learning even if he has to lie down for a while. There is no testing accommodation for pain. When he is sixteen he might be able to stop wearing the brace and hopefully he will have learned how to manage the migraines. Maybe then he will take the tests, or maybe not.

I refuse to take him out of piano and musical theater so I can afford therapy so he might be able to color in the lines of little bubbles faster. If coloring in bubbles were some very important life skill it might be different. I think he has learned much more important life skills in musical theater, where his friends are much more like him and it is safe to talk about what they are reading without being labeled a geek. One of his friends is studying Shakespeare on his own just for fun and they talked about that yesterday. Focusing on a disability that I don't believe OT or PT can change that much does not make sense to me. Musical theater, friends, music, improvisation, singing, dance, working as part of a team to make a good show, this is what he needs, not the ability to color in lines.

I do believe that OT and PT would have been helpful when he was younger, when it would have made more of a difference.

His handwriting is sloppy, especially if he has to write quickly, but it is legible. He can and does write neatly if there is enough time.

Lori,

Since your son has formally diagnosed disabling conditions that include both a significant pain component that is worse with prolonged sitting and a fatigue component, he may actually be eligible for the accommodation of taking the test in short sessions over the course of several days. It sounds like that would be really helpful for him.

When the time comes, it would certainly be worth a try to send in what you have in terms of medical documentation.

Certainly you should apply for accommodations for him Lori. The process can take a while so start early. It seems unwise to me to totally just assume he won't be able to do this. He's bright kid who has shown you that he can exceed your expectations. It seems a shame to cut him off from this possibilities that may allow him to use his considerably intelligence in ways that may help open up future possibilities for him.

One thing I'd keep in mind is that this is a one time thing. It isn't like he'd have to maintain that level of energy day after day. Adrenaline can be quite a powerful thing to overcome some of these challenges for a short period of time. Also, hopefully solutions will be identified that help him manage his pain. If he's never tried to practice bubbling I would not assume he's incapable of learning to do it. Some kids who struggle with handwriting or fine motor strength are still able to bubble.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, improvements in strength are a HUGE help with hypotonia. It is not too late for him to make improvements that will help him live a healthier life. PT is not just for little kids. Pain management and relaxation strategies aren't just for little kids. Some kids actually make more progress after puberty. I hope that turns out to be the case for your son. He's got a lot to offer the world.

Just wanted to update anyone who was interested on the outcome of the College Board decision. They approved a keyboard on the writing section (who hoo!!) and also 100% extended time on writing and math, small group testing, large block answer sheet (no bubbles) and extra breaks.

On the down side, they say we don't have enough recent documentation of his visual disabilities for him to get a 14 pt testing booklet, and they denied 200% extended time on the math section. I don't think they are thinking clearly about how much writing goes into doing math at this level. Using a calculator doesn't do anything for helping you write out equations, and it is his writing that is really the bottleneck.

I hope it will be enough for him to get by. We'll keep working on getting better documentation of his visual processing deficits, but for this year, this is going to be as good as it gets - deadline to register for the last test of the year is next week.

Very interesting! glad he is getting some accommodation.
We might well be in a similar position for time accommodations in the math arena eventually, I will keep in mind your point about getting/keeping up with documentation on this.

Good news Aculady, and hopefully it's good enough news.

I can't believe that they are dragging their heals on the visual disability, but nothing should surprise me now.

Are calculators that print allowed? Not as good as writing down equations, but perhaps for some of the easier problems???

Hugs,
Grinity

We're keeping our fingers crossed that it will be "good enough".

Unfortunately, printing calculators are specifically prohibited.

I'm extremely interested in the low muscle tone, how to show what you know in a bubble question.

One of the best accommodations I've heard is to give the child a chance to verbally answer any questions they've written incorrectly.

I have observed a great deal of school OT and PT, and I love them but my overall reaction as a parent is I'll just have my kids do gymnastics! Or wrestling! The therapists I see at work cite core strength as a huge need for students.

Regarding hypotonia, I understand this is a soft neurological sign and I think essential fatty acids can't hurt.

Two therapies I see as very promising are Masgutova - sp? - my OT friend says kids *lose diagoses* - and Kinetic Konnections.

Mostly good news there aculady. It seems totally crazy to me that they'd deny anyone access to larger type. Unless you've got the disability there is no possible way you could benefit from that (unlike extended time which certainly could be of unfair advantage to someone without a disability).

LinCO,

Thanks for bringing these therapies up.

One of my son's OTs was very well-versed in Masgutova method, and we certainly saw gains and improvements with this, although we didn't get full reintegration of his numerous retained reflexes. I'd absolutely recommend it for children who have retained infantile reflexes.

Essential fatty acids are rarely a bad idea, but we didn't see any dramatic improvement in hypotonia from using the supplements (although there were other things that did improve.)

I'm pretty sure gymnastics or wrestling would have been 1) incredibly dangerous and 2) impossible for my son, whose disabilities also seriously impair his depth perception and his proprioception, so I am grateful that we had the excellent private OTs and PTs who managed to help us get him to where he is today. He wasn't in school once he was diagnosed, so we never dealt with school OT and PT, which I understand can be very different from what you find in private practice.

My son has been taking Omega 3-6-9 for months now and I don't see any difference in his hypotonia, but his timing and coordination got better. For the last year or so he has been learning dances in musical theater as fast as the other kids even though he had to sit and watch the dances part of the time.

He started physical therapy a few weeks ago. The physical therapists my son saw over a year ago before he started wearing a scoliosis brace gave him the same exercises they gave almost everyone else and didn't watch him to make sure he was doing the exercises correctly. I couldn't see that it did my son any good after six weeks and we stopped going and he did some exercises at home using our weight machine. He also had a chin-up bar in his room and could do a few of those before he was put in the brace. He can't do those things now. When he got his scoliosis brace we told the doctor that he was not in PT. He showed my son a few exercises to do at home but even with those exercises, wearing a brace all day caused my son's core muscles to become much weaker. His orthotist found us a physical therapist that seems to know a lot more about my son's condition and I am very pleased with the therapy but our co-pays are about $100 a month. The physical therapist is not telling us that the therapy will work miracles and that he won't be in pain. He says pain goes along with my son's condition, but he gave my son some stretching exercises that help a little. He also told us that everyone can gain strength but the amount of strength my son will gain might not be the same as someone who does not have hypotonia.

I recently asked my son's writing composition teacher for accommodations for the test after she said there would be 13 questions requiring a minimum of three written sentences each and I knew there was no way my son could do that amount of writing in one hour. I also sent her a link that I think helped me explain what living with hypotonia is like. http://uncalledforproductions.wordpress.com/2009/05/20/hypotonia-the-questions-ive-been-asked.

The writing comp teacher said she would allow my son to type his answers on his iPhone in class and email it to her at the end of class which is what my son suggested we do.

3-6-9 is not the product that people are typically using for brain and neuro concerns like adhd, anxiety, or hypotonia. Our American diet tends to include an excess of omega 6 and a lack of omega 3. It is that imbalance that contributes to inflammation, poor hormone regulation etc. Most people are going to do much better on a straight omega 3 supplement. For what it is worth, when we accidentally bought 3-6-9 we saw a major decline within a couple of weeks versus what we see on straight omega 3. The major improvements we see are more with balance, emotional regulation, and endurance.

I encourage anyone coping with these challenges to get occupational and physical therapy. It does take time, it does take hard work, but ultimately it can make a big difference. For floppy people it isn't going to make the floppy going away, but improving strength, particularly core strength, can make a huge difference in daily life. Also, I understand it can be annoying when people suggest activities like karate, swimming, dance, or horseback riding. It may feel like people are saying your kid must not have a real problem if stuff like that can help. But, really anything with patterned movements and opportunities to work on balance is worth trying.

The good news though is that the strength he gains will mean so much more to him than they will mean for a person who doesn't have hypotonia. Even modest gains can be revolutionary in lessening fatigue.

Passthepotatoes,

I second the information on the Omega 3 vs. 3-6-9, and the comments about appropriate patterned movements.

Swimming, dance, horseback riding, and martial arts have all been a huge part of my son's formal "in office" (for definitions of "office which include pools and pastures occupied by physical therapists) and home-based OT and PT - his physical therapist primarily used pool and riding-related activities with him. My son used to joke that PT stood for "Pool Therapy" in the summer and "Pasture Therapy" in the winter. My comments about gymnastics and wrestling were more based on the nature of those two particular sports than on any sense that integrating sport or leisure activities that build strength and balance into a rehabilitation program is impossible or undesirable. I think it is probably an essential part of maintaining the gains made in formal therapy and continuing to build on them.

My son took omega 3 for at least a year before he started taking the omega 3-6-9 for the last couple of months. I couldn't tell any difference when he switched. His balance and coordination continued to get better and he doesn't have a problem dancing and as a result, his confidence has grown. The physical therapist tested his balance and said it is very good until his muscles fatigue. My son also sings better than he did a year ago. Several people have mentioned that he has a very nice voice. One person said they noticed he had more control in his voice now. I think that might have something to do with being able to take deep breaths and breath normally now that he isn't in the day brace.

This is totally OT, but I have noticed that his voice is deepening slowly and I haven't heard the cracking that I heard with some of the other male singers in the group when they went through puberty. He just sounds really good now so that is something that is getting better for him.

I do think the synchronized patterned movements and dancing in musical theater helped my son with coordination and balance. He does not look like he has a disability at all except for the pain I can see in his eyes.

Whenever he performs at one of these outdoor festivals, he is worn out after the performance and he never gets to enjoy the festival or fair or whatever it is because of the fatigue and now the worsening pain. When he was little, I could take a stroller. Now that he is almost a teenager, it is more of a problem and we are trying to figure out how to deal it.

He performed today at a park with the rest of his musical theater group. The parking lot was quite a distance from the stage. By the time he walked to the stage and had to perform his feet hurt like they always do even though he has orthotics in his shoes, but his back is what hurts the most. Yes he can get a little stronger, but I think pain causes some of the fatigue and pain makes it harder for him to increase his endurance. He will probably have pain tonight and he can't lie down on a heating pad because he will be in the brace. Nights are very hard now but he is willing to go through the pain at night so he can be free from the brace during the day.

I asked my son's physical therapist about having him do exercises in our hot tub but he said to just do the exercises that he gave him already because he thinks they will work better. I would think any kind of water exercise would be a good thing because there is less stress on the joints and less pain.

OK, here's another question - my kids' godmother has had several TBIs in the last few years and is getting significantly better with neurofeedback - anybody tried that??

Happy Mother's Day Lori H. I'm happy for your son that he is able to be free of the brace during the day and that he is learning dances as fast as the other kids - what an amazing feat!

Sad to hear about this tough challenges he is facing, and my heart goes out to you as I imagine you must be suffering right along with in AND trying not to show it to be strong for him. Wow!

I get it that he can't sleep on a heating pad, but can he use one for 15 munites after a long day? What about massage? I've used balls for self message that look like these
http://www.gaiam.com/product/yoga+ball+body+therapy+system.do
for back pain at various points and found them helpful.

It is sad that he doesn't get to enjoy the fairs and festivals, but I'm so happy for him that he's found an activity that the enjoys and feels so at one with. So many kids don't find any activity satisfying except video games that I'm always impressed when a young person find something in the real world to immerse himself in.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thanks. I am going to ask the physical therapist what he thinks about the yoga balls. It looks like it could be helpful since one of my son's problems is tight muscles--more on one side than the other and it is the muscle imbalance that makes me worry that if I have him do any exercise wrong or if he doesn't do it enough that it will make things worse.

Last night one of the straps came off of the brace and I had to wake up my husband so he could fix it. I really have to learn not to panic when this kind of thing happens because I know it makes it harder for my son. I don't know what I would do without my husband. It was hard to sleep after the brace problem because I was worried that the strap wouldn't hold, but it did.

Today my son has another performance but it is inside so it will be easier.

Yesterday, my son used an accommodation for his dysgraphia for the end of semester test in his writing composition class--his iPhone. There were 13 short answer essay questions requiring at least three sentences each and there was no way my son could write that much in one hour.

But he can type so fast using two fingers (one thumb and one index finger) that he finished the test before anyone else. He emailed the answers he had typed to the teacher. It was so easy. I don't think any of the other students saw him with the iPhone so he didn't feel uncomfortable using this accommodation.

It was!

Despite the fact that he was sick on the day of the test, he managed to pull off exactly the math score he needed to get into the program he wants to attend.

Fantastic suggestion. Getting a good quality moist heating pad may make a huge difference in his pain level. They are totally unlike what is sold at the drugstore. He could use it on his legs and feet even when he had the brace on. We've found it very helpful with tight muscles that can come from inbalances with hypotonia. http://www.amazon.com/Moist-Heating...mp;ie=UTF8&qid=1308848204&sr=1-2 another good brand is thermophore. Both have good prices on Amazon.

It is a very good observation that your anxiety level can make the situation worse. It may help to try to ask yourself the question "really, what's the worst thing if the straps don't hold tonight?" In the morning we fix them. Also, "what is my worrying accomplishing right now?" When you've asked those questions move to deep breathing and relaxation.

On a related note, since I am still in the process of putting together a portfolio (handwritten work samples at a gifted level are rare here) and filling out that @#$%&* parent paperwork for DS to support his DYS application because his last achievement testing wasn't exactly what DYS accepts, does anyone know if you actually only need qualifying SAT scores on a single section to qualify for DYS, or is it like the ACT scores, where you need the composite also? DS as an 8th grader made a 740 Critical Reading, but only 520 Math on the SAT. The wording on the qualifying criteria page seems to indicate that any one score will work for the achievement portion, in which case I can stop obsessing over the portfolio and just send what I've got when the paper score report comes in.

I read it the same way = stop obsessing, send in what you have, and do send in the parts of the portfolio you have already done!

Do the work, but stop obsessing about it - make sense? Pretend you are making a 'retrospective' of DS so that when he gets married, you can embarrass him really well with a slide show of his early life.

Did you apply also to SET with that CR score? How old is your son now?

Smiles,
Grinity

Thanks for sharing, I'm sure that will inspire many parents to keep working to get needed accommodations!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I feel kind of silly asking this, but what is SET? My son is 14.

Edit:Never mind. I found it. He wouldn't qualify.