Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Grade Skipping --I'm Nervous

Last week we had another WISC done on our DS7. The first was done a few weeks before he turned six. The WJ III was also done.

Looking at his abilities now that I've had them "officially" confirmed for a second time, I see things more clearly. I had great difficulty comprehending Ruf's suggestion that a PG kid could cover elementary school in one year. Yet, as I look at ds and then look at what's expected at the end of fifth and sixth grades, I think it's possible that I have one of these children on my hands. He just seems to know it all without much effort. The exception is math. I've never pushed him beyond grade level, and I really don't see him as gifted in that area, yet he really doesn't have too much trouble with anything in math.

I would like to know of any potential problems with, or benefits to, skipping two or three grades at once in a homeschool situation. I'm thinking more along the lines of tests (EXPLORE, for instance). How about sports? They usually base that on age, right? I have no problem with saying he's in 2nd grade, but teaching on a fourth or fifth grade level. I just don't want to start down this grade-skipping road and find out that we have somehow messed things up.

I guess that'll do it for now. Thanks so much.

In a homeschool setting I would keep him officially at agegrade but give him material in his readiness level.

Academic Competitions, which can be very useful and inspiring, usually go by grade, so skipping isn't an advantage there.

Talent Searches, such as CTY, qualify by grade, so skips can work against the child - and they don't assign the classes by grade, but by age, so that seems double unfair to me. Sigh.

Skips are great if they let your child attend a public school and keep in their readiness level, but they do have drawbacks.

Totally agree and this is what we do with both our kids. None of the material my "4th grade" son uses is 4th grade, and very little of what my young 1st grader uses is 1st grade (she's still working on spelling and writing).

I agree with this too. The benefit of homeschooling is you can go deep and wide, explore obscure topics, spend more time on extra curricular activities, etc. Unless my kids start asking to go to college early or back to school, we'll keep doing what we're doing. My son did the EXPLORE as a 4th grader this year. The work load he does is 4th grade, 5th at best. The materials he uses are 3-7 grade levels ahead.

Why not bump him now?
Is the recommended someone who is knowledgable about the curiculum?
What curiculum do you use now? Do they have 'end of year tests?'

It seems like you've had a difficult time figuring this kid out - it might be worth it to pay a curriculum specialist to work with you kid a bit and figure out where he needs to be, and then help you plan what to work with. If you are in YSP, you can ask you Family Consultant to see if they will provide this service to you 'no charge.'

I've also heard that the MAP is availible to homeschoolers though a Florida group, and that MAP is specifically designed to help teachers answer the question 'what should I teach next?'

Best Wishes,
Grinity

First, thanks to everyone who responded. I feel better now. He turned 7 in December, so he's officially in first grade. (In our state the cut-off is in Sept.) When we had to choose a grade, we decided to place him where he would be placed, age-wise, in public school.


We intended to move him to 2nd in January just because he's nowhere near the 1st grade in the various curricula that was use. Math is the exception and he's using a 2nd grade curriculum now. So, it makes sense to use to go ahead and at least move him to 2nd grade now.

Would those of you who said that you keep your children in their age-grade go ahead and bump him to 2nd? Or, would you still keep him in 1st for purposes of things like EXPLORE? If we advance him, he would be a very young 2nd grader.


Hmmm... No, not knowledgeable about our curriculum in the sense that he knows what it's all about, but he is very knowledgeable about pg children.


We do follow an online living books curriculum as a skeleton, but in the year that we've been schooling, I've had to adapt constantly. Just to give a bit of an overview, I'll mention a few things.

For first grade science, we are using a curriculum that's recommended for 5th/6th graders. We covered zoology in a few months, he loved it, and it was no trouble at all for him to move through it. He retained almost every detail from this text. We are now working on botany because he is very into seeds and growing things. It's been a little of a challenge for him, but only in that he's actually learning new words and a few new ideas. Still, he's not really having to work hard.

For science, we do more than just the books. We use Supercharged Science, field trips, nature study, and Aha! Science (he's blown through the elementary work without any trouble at all). We read living books about various disciplines of science and biographies about scientists. This is without pushing at all and going at an easy pace. (We school year-round, taking off for trips and holidays, or just when we feel like it.)

His lowest scores in achievement testing were in math. We have been using MEP for math, supplemented with Primary Grade Challenge Math and some living math books. While I don't believe that he's a "mathy" child, I do agree that I've held him back here too. He's capable of more. I've just stuck with the curriculum and not urged him to move forward.

We do more than those things, but I guess my point is that little slows him down much at all. That's what makes it difficult. Where do you draw the line and decide that something is challenging enough? What is "good enough" for these kids? I'm so guilty already of not challenging him and saying "good enough," yet I see that he's already developing issues from me doing that.


We thought about applying last year when he was originally tested, but we didn't have the achievement testing and I was unsure about sending in a portfolio. As we started school with him and he took off, we realized that we could benefit from DYS, but we had trouble finding an appropriate reference. (He hides his abilities with most people, and since he's not in PS, we had trouble finding someone we could use for a reference.)

I'm sorry I've been so wordy here. I will figure it all out, but it's nice to have those who have btdt to offer advice and encouragement. Thanks so much to you all.

Can ask for letter of Rec from your psychologist? Music teacher? Martial Arts?Any tutor? Even someone you've just met for one day, like a private school that you interview at...or a school teacher you call up to come over and play once.
Good luck!

Do you need to change his grade designation to do more difficult work? Singapore math is easy to compact, and can provide extra challenge with the problem solving. My 4th grade son started homeschooling in 2nd grade - did 3 years of math that year, and 2 the following (while taking side trips). Now we're doing 1st level Singapore new elementary (algebra, geometry) which is a also challenging curriculum. I choose to do more open ended science, language arts, and history. No graded level curriculum has worked well for us, even at a high grade level. Never is deep enough.

I think it is about balance. I require my kids to do age appropriate amount of work for 1st and 4th grade. For my 1st grader, that comes to about an hour a day. For my older, maybe 2-3 hours. They read and do projects on their own too. My son likes to play with robotics, computer programming, and just research random topics.

I personally think as long as they're learning to learn in SOME area daily, things will be fine and they're likely much better off than in a poor fitting school setting. Is your son happy and comfortable being challenged? I think having time to think and explore areas of interest can be great for these kids if you're looking for ways not to race through grade levels.

Music lessons have been great for my kids. They need to be accountable to their teacher and the challenge level is constantly going up. We use homeschooling as an opportunity to get more involved in extra curricular activities too.

Good luck making your decisions!

Is that okay? The part of the app. with the letter of recommendation asks how often the person is around the child. If that doesn't matter, then I can definitely pull that off. Do you know for sure? I've considered just submitting and letting them decide if it was acceptable. Hmmm.... thinking...

Well, looking at my question now, I can see why you would ask that. No, I don't care if he's "K" or "6th" when we tell people. That's why I never pushed to start him early and held him back from K as a 5 y/o (which happened to be a mistake ) I think it has been in my mind that we will eventually need to give him a more accurate grade level name. Why? I don't know. LOL


No, he's not comfortable being challenged. He's developed this issue where he has to be pushed to do anything that he immediately perceives as difficult. THAT is my concern about not challenging him more than we do currently. If it weren't for math (and anything requiring the use of his motor skills), I wouldn't know what "challenged" looks like for him.

He does have many interests outside of schoolwork. We don't really separate academics from our daily lives too much. We don't have TV or video games, so there's little media taking up his time. He rides his bike, he collects for his natural history museum, he does art, he takes nature walks, he invents things, works in his garden, does some sports, etc. I have been perfectly okay with this kind of life for him --for us.

I suppose my concern arose when it was suggested to us that his lack of focus, his resistance to trying things he perceives as too difficult, and his achievement scores being less than 99% in math were due to me not challenging him enough by presenting new material when he was ready for it.

So, do I ignore what we were told by the doctor? Do I keep going along like we've been doing and let "okay" be good enough for him? I don't know where the balance is at this point and that's what scares me, but I do believe that it will all work out in the end. I'm just trying to gather info and gain insight in order to get a game plan.

Just tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. I know of at least on specific case where one of the letters came from Gifted teachers who were teaching a Saturday Class and had spend a total of 2 hours with him and a group of GT kids. It helped that he was 'playing up' that day, and much younger than his temporary classmates, and that the teachers were familiar with 'what gifted kids are like' and he totally fooled them into thinking that 'he was one of the oldest kids' based on his comments and engaged behavior. I came by at the end of the class to 'see if he behaved himself, given his younger age' and when their mouths dropped open, I know it was time to hand them paperwork.

Yup, I walked around with the letters of rec in my pocketbook for a month, ready to spring them on the first people who seemed even remotely possible. The other was from his once a week French teacher, and I don't know if she felt he was more than 'bright.' I didn't ask, I handed her the paperwork and prayed.

Of course that was many years ago, but DYS is great in that if you seem almost 'ok' but not entirely, they will call you and tell you what they need to see.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

It is really hard to find a balance point. I think you'll have to try a variety of things. If it was just the doctor, well maybe to ignore, but in your situation, you are seeing that he is resistant to doing things that might be difficult. I would call this poor work ethic, which easily could be a sign of never getting work at his readiness level, and around age 7 it's time to start monkeying around with his context so that he gets chances to experience harder challenges. Just a bit. I call it the balanced push - one hand planted firmly in the back, another holding the sternum so he doesn't fall forward.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

When looking at talent search testing there are pluses and minuses to having him officially skipped. If you list him as a 4th grader when he would, by age, be a 3rd grader he may be less likely to make the awards ceremonies if that matters to you. The plus would be that, if you intend to have him do any of the summer programs, he might be able to do some of the programs for the older kids sooner if he is officially in a higher grade. However, some of the summer programs require both completion of a certain grade and being a certain age.

Given that he wouldn't be wildly younger for grade with one grade skip, I don't think that would be a big roadblock for him. It applies a lot more to kids who are skipping multiple grades or who are already really young for grade and then skip one grade (sometimes they are in the appropriate grade to apply for a certain summer program but not old enough by the requirements).

Cricket, the age-based program placement is something that we're about to encounter; he's starting a PTY this weekend. He's in a math class (his least advanced subject), so I expect this will be a good fit. During the summer and fall he'll be in a 3rd/4th class (if we bump him one grade), so that might work out okay. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Grinity, thank you for your opinion and personal story about your recommendation experience. I'll go put the form in my purse now. I suppose we'll wait for this most recent report and then give it a go. I wish I had applied fifteen months ago when we got his first results, and before he started first grade. He was so different then. I had no clue what I was in for at the time.

You may as well start filling out the form now, and start handing out those recommendations forms. There are 1 million excuses to not start today, and we're smart enough to find them all. Don't outsmart yourself. Really - send in the app with the old scores, and by the time they contact you, perhaps they can be helpful in hurrying along the new report. ((wink))
G

My DD6 will be 7 in March. She is in 2nd grade. She skipped K last year and went straight to 1st grade. Yes, she is the youngest in the class. Some kids are 2 yrs older than her but she held her own in class. She did CTY grade 2 SCAT last December and got High Honors award. The principal asked me if we want to accelerate one more grade. My DD is having fun in the class being the top student and grade acceleration will work against her just as Grinity said.

The school plan to do above grade level Math via study island while other kids are doing their Math lessons. She is doing Kumon Math and reading 3 grades above level now.

In the nutshell, I think your DS can go to 2nd may be even 3rd. But it's good to start where the kid is most comfortable especially in the new environment. But HG and PG kids will most often rise up to the challenge.

Good luck!

I would say with homeschooling, you are really able to work above level anyhow. so at this point, I wouldn't see the need to move him up a grade...but just give above level work. Chances are even if you moved him up to 2nd, he would not be doing 2nd grade work anyhow. That is just with homeschooling though.

For us DS6 is in a public school. He turns 7 in July. He skipped K and went into 1st last year and is in 2nd technically this year. But he does 4 grade reading in his classroom and he goes to a 4th grade classroom at another school for math, and is also enriched to do 5th grade too so will be in 6th for math next year. He does amazingly well with all of this. Whenever someone asks his grade we say 2nd (although sometimes my son will say '2nd and 4th)...but then it gets confusing. Yes my child is chronologically in 1st, but is in 2nd doing 4th, LOL. For sports they go by age for baseball and that is all he plays at this point. Sometimes he can get into programs in the area for older kids when I have told them that he does 4th grade math. Good luck, and good luck with the DYS application : )

Peter - please be sure not to misunderstand. I think skips have drawbacks, but I think that 'not skipping' can have bigger drawbacks depending on the child's personality and the family needs.

For example, your current situation has the drawback that your DD is spending a lot of her afterschool hours on academics. This is great for a kid who finds this to be her favorite way to unwind, but not so good for a kid with different preferences.

It sounds like you are keeping her challenged by using the afterschooling, which is great, but do keep an eye on her in school, because females are famous for 'just blending in.' It's a wonderful skill to have, but it puts more pressure on us parents to 'not be fooled' by the contented smile. Plus, we parents tend to have been socialized to think that girls need 'protection' more than 'challenge' so we have to be very careful about our own 'instincts.'

just a thought
Grinity

Thanks, Grinity.

My DD6 is head-strong and a show off type girl. She wants to stand out and not blend in. We just got the report card from the teacher praising her about teaching other kids how to solve sudoku.

My DD9 is in 4th grade and she is TAG identified after 1st grade. But DD9 hates challenges and she is moving along with her grade level (although her reading has always been at least 2 grades above level). But DD6 is moving fast and actually better than her sister in Math.

We have to balance the psyche of older one (pretty sensitive too) and keep the challenge on the little one. DW volunteers at school often and we keep an eye on our DDs. we identified 4 other kids in DD6's class who are at least 1 grade above level and we are advocating the school to do in-school enrichment. I already met the pricipal and she agreed and right now working out the logistics.(The 3rd grade onwards have a lot of home works and we do not want the kids to feel that they are being punished for being smart.) I do not want to take away their piano, gymnastics and art classes. DD6 is in chess club and Destination Imagination, too.

You are right about "protection". The kids these days grow up too fast and I heard a lot of "not so comforting" stories even in middle school. And, yes, that's another reason I do not want to accelerate any more.

I think we are doing the right thing but I would welcome anyone who make good suggestion because it's hard to fix when broken.

God bless.

Ug Peter, you do have a lot to balance! Sibling issues are tough, but in a way the older is helping the younger to feel more 'at home' on the planet. I call it the 'at home gifted cluster.' 2nd borns who have the motto 'we try harder' is a well worn path, and hopefully your younger will stick on it.

Good for you for getting the school involved with providing some in-class accomidation for your older's group.

Chess club and Destination Imagination are great activities.

Yippee!
Grinity