Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments guidance on K vs 1st and school choice?

Hi,
I'm a newbie, so please forgive any posting goofs! I'm finding reading this site very helpful over the last week or so and I'm hoping some of you might have time to give me some direction.

I am panicking about just discovering that Jan (now!) may be a month of deadlines for getting into schools for the 2011-2012 year. I don't even know where to start in gathering useful info about area schools (San Diego) suitable for my son. He is nearly 5, is some level of extremely bright, and has been in excellent center-based child care since he was an infant. He won't be old enough to meet the public school age requirement for first grade for the 2011-12 year. He is currently in a all day mixed kindergarten/preK class of 4-6 year olds with 2 teachers for 24 kids. He could stay there next year if necessary, in the same classroom, but his teachers say he should really go to first grade. Is socially, intellectually, physically ready for it. But I think if he stayed in this preK/K class, the teachers would make an effort to support his needs and help him be challenged and happy.

I'd prefer to put him into a first grade class, but
public school system (reportedly excellent school blocks away) is expecting 30 kids per first grade class next year, which is nearly a deal breaker for me, just on principle. And then there's that part about him not being old enough anyway. The school system's web site discourages trying to get around this deadline. The public school kindergarten, really not an option because he'll be very out of place, has small class size, but is only half day which is difficult as my husband and I both work.

So-private schools for first grade next year, then? which I just realized may have application deadlinend of the spectrum which will make the parochial schools impossible, limiting our choices. How do I start this process of learning about our options and about the schools, and how do I not make myself nuts over it? We've only lived here a couple years so I don't have friends to gather info from. The director of his current school is wonderful, and has been in the area a long time, so I can discuss with her.

Any suggestions/advice? Should I have a beer and try not to panic? Do I need testing to assess where he really needs to be next year, and what type of classroom might be best for him? Or is my sense of him vs his age peers, my reading of GT literature, and his teacher's assessment sufficient to make a skip to first grade? help!

Beak

Someone who knows more about your system will probably be along in a few minutes, but a few quick reactions:

How do I say this? I think you might be well advised to resign yourself to making yourself nuts over this for the next few weeks/months. Finding a good school willing to do a skip for a child they don't know is hard anyway, never mind at short notice. (OTOH, if you find a school willing to be flexible on the basis of what they see him doing when they meet him and what you say, it's a good sign!)

It's great that he's in a good situation right now and that the director of his current school is good. Talk to that person! I wouldn't dismiss the idea of keeping him where he is next year if you can't arrange something that's clearly better. A good teacher in the hand is worth two in the bush. If you find it's impractical to get him a skip to 1st for next year, having him stay where he is and then enter school in 2nd might not be such a daft idea.

There are two reasons you might want testing; to help you know what's best for him, and to convince the receiving school. I don't remember having heard about a skip agreed without testing, but different schools require different tests. You certainly don't want to wait for testing before doing other things. One possibility is to talk to schools on the basis that you are in the process of arranging testing and what testing would they like to see; you might need to accept that they won't commit to the skip until they see the test results, but you could still judge their willingness to do it if appropriate. Risky, though. Maybe the director of your current school can help guide you on this.

Welcome!

Welcome, beak!

I'm not familiar with California at all, but I had a few initial thoughts when reading your post.

First, in my experience, preschool teachers very often tend to err on the side of caution and recommend extra time in preschool and K, especially for boys, so if your son's teacher is recomending that your child needs more, then that says a ton to me. I would definitely use this teacher as a resource, a source of support, and as an advocate for your son. Would she be willing to call schools that are options for you to say, "I have this student in my class that I feel very strongly is ready for a 1st grade classroom . . . " and see what she gets? Sometimes an educator to educator conversation is very helpful. If not a conversation, would she be willing to write a letter of recommendation detailing specifically why she thinks 1st would be a good placement?

I thought it was interesting that you said the school system's web site discourages trying to get around this deadline. To me, this sounds like a door is open for someone for whom getting around the deadline would be truly appropriate.

I think the idea of your son staying where he is for another year and then entering into 2nd grade is an option worth looking into. If he's in an nurturing environment and they are willing to provide the level of learning that he needs, it may make the case more obvious to the other school that he's beyond their curricula.

I have heard of a few rare cases where schools do not require testing when looking at grade or subject acceleration, but virtually all do. They want something "tangible" that shows them that not only is the child ahead now (which could be due to you being an attentive parent, they think) but that your child is highly likely to continue to learn at a much faster pace than his peers. So, in conjunction with you looking into his schooling options, I would look into testing options, as well. I know that when we were looking at early entrance/skipping K, the school provided us with a free individual ability and achievement assessments as part of their decision making process. For others, I know it's sometimes necessary to get the assessments yourself, but in that case it would be helpful to know which tests the schools like to see.

Another thought: what we found very valuable, and what the school found very valuable, was having a day where our child visited the classroom into which he or she would be placed the following year to see how they did with peer interactions, self-starting, separation, academics, etc. In our case, our kids visited a K class for several hours to see if they would be ready for K the following year. The thought, I guess, was that if they could get along well in the K class at that point, then they would certainly be ready for K the following year. Perhaps your son could sit in on a 1st grade class for a day this spring, or could sit in on a K class which would hold the kids who would be his classmates in a 1st grade class.

Good luck beginning your search for school options. It will become an obsession at times, but *try* not to let it take over too much of your time. It sounds like you've got a great little guy!

My DD6 went to day care/school in central texas from 2-5. They use ABEKA curriculum. Since my DD advance through pre K and K before 4, they ordered and do 1st grade for her at 4. When she went to public school, we requested testing for acceleration and she got accepted for 1st grade. She is currently in 2nd grade but her Math and reading level is at 5th grade. She is outgoing and she enjoys bossing around. When she was 4, she read books to her fellow Kders while the teacher went for potty break, etc and now helping other kids do their Maths/sudoku, etc in class.

It depends a lot on how your DS is and your public school system is. 1st check if your school district has policy on gifted education and about their acceleration policy. If they do have the policy, you get free testing by the school when you request. Check your public school rating on the greatschools.org and check your school rating. If it is not bad, save your money for college and send him to public school.

Good luck!

You've gotten some great advice!
I love all these ideas and agree heartily. Frankly, our local website doesn't say anything about early entrance - you've got much better odd at a place that acknowledges that it might exist and discourages it.

I love the idea of using the current school as a resource. You can always ask.

I don't believe that testing is required for early entrance - with giftedness the bottom line is 'Is this child already thriving on the work expected of an older child? if yes, than keep giving that level of work!' If testing is required, then it may be the start of a reliable local relationship with someone who 'gets' gifted, and that's a good thing.

Of course, if you just want a list of school, try here:
http://www.greatschools.org/california/san-diego/private/schools/
Remember to go visit school, observe things like 'what books are on the classroom library shelf' and keep your ears stuffed with cotton when the staff starts talking about their abstract philosophy. Only direct observation of classrooms will tell you anything about what schools are actually like.

Welcome to the Forum!
Grinity

Thank you! 1I need to come back later, with a few more specific questions, but wanted to say thank you for these responses, and good ideas. I feel much calmer now (for the moment!)...

We sent our dd4 early to K this year and so far it has been pretty good. I was pretty 'for' it based on how she was doing in general, at home and at school, her generally outgoing nature, etc. I thought she'd be bored to tears if we waited.
I did end up getting testing done to assuage the concerns of the staff however, I think they felt better with a more firm leg to stand on and point to as a reason for the move up. I also did not mind seeing the results, although taken so young I know these numbers can move around (I don't expect to find out she's not gifted however, that is clear to just about anybody who meets her...or should I say gets run over by her fast moving train...)

Anyhow, it is going well so far, she is learning lots but not feeling overwhelmed, or too bored, so really a good spot for her. She did not read much going in and is doing well with that, which I believe is just right for kindergarten. I will continue to consider the right/wrong-ness of this skip probably every single year, every time she has a hard time with anything, now that I think about it!!

Hi again,

Thank you Grinity for the Greatschools link. Being able to easily locate schools on the map there, and use the links to the school webpages is a big help.

A re-visit to the school district and the website for the nearest public school reveals no information on early entrance to K or 1st grade. I was sure that I read it was not allowed, or wasn't easy to accomplish, something like that, but I guess I either dreamed that or the info's been removed.

Does anyone have advice on making first contact with the school or the school system about how to work towards getting my son placed into first grade when he's not going to make their age cutoff? There is a GATE program that tests at 2nd grade for placement in 3rd. Would a phone call or email to the GATE office be a good place to start, and ask about early entrance to first grade? Is that the appropriate wording?

Thanks!

I think that I would send an email to the GATE coordinator and your current teacher who is recommending 1st grade.
Something like:
Dear GATE coordinator,
Ms. Smith, my son's current teacher at Dasiy Hill Learning Center, recently had a conversation with me that she feels strongly that my son's social and emotional needs will be best met by him going to 1st grade in 2011-2012.

My Husband and I were surprised because our son's birthday is x-x-xx, but so touched that she cares enough about our son's emotional and social development to make that recommendation. We have been so blessed to have caring professionals in our son's life.

Do I need to take any special steps do I need to take to register him to start 1st grade on Sept 3, 2011? If so, can we please meet so that you can review the steps with my husband and I?

Sincerely,
Jane Smith

Note the 'it wasn't my idea' and the 'I have a husband, and he cares' (sexism is alive and well at the elementary school level, and the 'take you seriously' level goes way up if you threaten to bring DH to a daytime meeting) and that academic needs are never mentioned only social/emotional.

It is our understanding that children do not have academic needs in elementary school, except if they are behind grade level, but every child has social/emotional needs - getting a child into a classroom that meets their academic readiness level is a key to meeting their social/emotional needs.

Schools sometimes act as if one has to compromise one to get the other -not!
Best Wishes,
Grinity

oh, my goodness Grinity, I have to play "the husband" card?! (not that I haven't ever played it before...)

I like what you suggest though, especially indicating in the email/letter that I'm unaware I'm asking for something difficult. That can often be a good plan = force people to explain to you their crazy rules, like that ones that make it difficult for parents and teachers to do the best they can for the needs of each child.

thanks for the sample letter!
beak