Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Testing questions- DYS?

Hello-
I had DD8 tested last year because of problems she was having in school... I won't go into all of that here, but I was convinced she had ADD or maybe even Asperger's. The kid has no filter and becomes obsessed with certain topics. Last year it was rocks. I pulled at least 50 out of my dryer and the Earth Science teacher here at the high school became her best friend.
Turns out there's nothing wrong with her, she was just bored out of her mind and acting out in a way that was normal for a gifted kid. We had a meeting with the school principal and considered a grade skip, but she is a summer baby and already the youngest in her class. So, we opted for differentiation with a teacher who has been fantastic.

The psych did three different tests:
Her WISC IV full scale was 137 (I won't post all the specifics, but her processing speed was much lower than everything else and she hit some ceilings, according to the psych)
Her Peabody was 141
Her Kauffman was 146

He put her vocabulary age equivalence at 17.4 years. She is super verbal, and an outstanding reader. NWEA scores have always been 98-99th percentile, even in Math, which is her least favorite. She did all the gifted baby/toddler things, was reading before K, etc. We knew she was a smart kid but never put her difficulties together with her intelligence.

She's taking Explore next weekend. I think she's close to the cutoff scores for DYS, and I wonder about her WISC scores. Is the processing score pulling it down? I don't think her Kauffman score is an accepted test. I'm interested what her Explore scores will be like. She does so well on NWEA, I suspect she'll score well.

If she does well on Explore, should we bother applying for DYS? I know she's right on the cutoff and I wonder if it would be worth our effort. We could put a portfolio together, but it seems like a lot of work to be rejected. I guess I'm looking for info about how picky they are with selection. I'm sure there are lots of kids who are on the fence. Would it be worth a try?

Thanks for any input. We're always on the lookout for resources. There's not much available in our school system for gifted kids, the program starts in fourth grade, and it's fairly minimal. I'm always trying to keep her busy.

Thank you--
Julie

None of the numbers we recieved on the WISC were over 145...They were hovering right around 140. How do you calculate the GAI?

I'm thinking on the WISC IV she's close but not quite there. The other tests where she was over 145 (K-BIT and Peabody) aren't accepted tests.

We'll wait and see how she does on Explore, and if she qualifies that way we'll work on a portfolio. Do NWEA scores count as achievement testing? The way I read the website, they have to have two of the three options. She is right on the fence with the IQ testing. I think she could benefit from services, but I know there are kids with more extreme needs. I won't push too much, I just want what is best for her. Her school acts like they're not exactly sure what to do with her, so the guidance would be nice. I think her needs are a little more extreme than what they're used to dealing with.
Thanks for any further advice-
Julie

Julie - I'm glad that things are better! If she has VCI or PRI over 145, you can bet that a single skip would hardly be challenging academically, even if she is the youngest kid in her current grade. But there are tradeoffs as well, so perhaps better not to rush into a skip if the current teacher is wonderful. A teacher who gets your kid is priority #1!

What grade is she in, and what grade does the building change, say from elementary to middle school?

Good luck on the Explore!
Smiles,
Grinity

I'm just chiming in that I have a dd with an early fall bd who was also the youngest in her grade (or close to the youngest). We still agreed to skip her a grade and it was absolutely the right choice for her despite her age.

We've never found in class differentiation to be adequate except for one year where my oldest dd had a really wonderful teacher who ran the classroom rather differently with all kinds of centers with different types of work and a lot of parent volunteers who came in and helped at the various centers. Kids were only assigned to some of the centers (no one did everything) and the assignments as to where each kid went were tailored according to the academic needs.

GAI may well be in the qualifying range - so you might have enough already. I think you should submit what you have and let YSP guide you as to what else is needed. Often they don't reject kids, but instead ask for 'more testing.' Let them take the lead.

Even if your child don't make the cut off, at this time, DITD provides help to any educator that wants it through their cyber-educators guild
http://www.davidsongifted.org/edguild/
Free and open to all teachers of highly gifted kids! They even have email lists, although I don't know how active the lists are.

I don't think it's correct to say 'oh, other kids have greater needs' - the point is that at the top of these tests the tests lose their ability to distinguish one child from another. You DD has been through so much - who knows what her potential is. If she had been getting her educational needs met all along who knows what she could 'appear' like at this time, right? Let the YSP make their own choices. It's not like getting rejected puts a black mark on her record (or yours.) Of course I wouldn't mention it to her until it's good news. The kids who almost make it into DYS are still very unusually gifted and very rare in most school, and have deeply unfilled needs in most school settings.

When my son was in 2nd grade he got his IQ testing under similar conditions. In 3th grade things went very well with a teacher who really got him. In 4th grade they provided in-class differentiation, and things were 'so much better than terrible.' Our first chance at a skip came in 5th and it was hard to know what to do, because things we so much 'less terrible' that they looked good. In retrospect I'm so glad we took the chance, because 5th-8th would have been so much worse by comparison without the skip.

Who knows?
Grinity

I have her scores in front of me now, so I can give you the exact numbers...
Verbal Comprehension: 132
Perceptual Reasoning: 139
Working memory: 126
Processing speed: 115

From what I see from the subtests, her VCI probably isn't high enough. She's close, but not quite there. We'll see how explore goes. Things were bad for her at the time we had her IQ testing done... She was crying every night and refusing to do her homework. Looking back, I don't blame her and I feel bad for being mad at her for acting out. Who wants to do 100 addition and subtraction problems when you already know how to multiply and divide?

Regardless of any of her scores, I'm glad that we're having a better year. We'll see how things proceed.

Thanks again-
Julie

My oldest's IQ testing was done under similar circumstances. We had taken her out near the end of 1st grade to homeschool after most of the year spent being yelled at by her teacher who kept telling her she was lazy and who color coded the kids by performance and behavior. Dd was a wreck and had been telling me that she wished she had never been born and wanted to be dead. Other parents were calling me to tell me she was sitting at her desk in school crying, which is very uncharacteristic for her b/c she is very private about her feelings in public.

We did the testing a few months later in 2nd grade and she completely shut down on the block design test refusing to complete it when pushed to work fast. Her scores in the PRI ranged from an 8 (block design -- 25th percentile) to 19 (99.9th percentile). She, too, does not qualify for DYS and we haven't bothered retesting b/c, although I do believe she is more able than her IQ scores indicated, I don't know that she is a DYS level kid.

Yours may be, though. As Dottie said, the EXPLORE scores might give you an idea as to whether retesting in her instance would be worth it.

Thank you to everyone for the advice...
I think DD is truly a kid who is literally "right on the line."
When we had her testing done and they showed us the bell curve, the psych said he would put her right between being a highly gifted kid and a pg/eg kid... Literally you could draw a line. Which is probably why Davidson's cutoff is exactly where it is. Interestingly enough, her behaviors, etc., are also "right on the line." At times she shows some of the more extreme characteristics of gifted kids, at other times, she really seems to fit the mold for an eight year old girl.

We will see what happens with her Explore test and go from there. I truly appreciate all of the advice. I think she's a little more extreme than what school officials are used to dealing with. This year, anyway, things have gone well. We'll take it year to year, and if a grade skip becomes an obvious solution we'll take it. Her teacher this year really understands her and is good with her, so I'm glad we didn't do the skip last year and miss out on our current experience. Thanks again for all the wonderful advice... It's hard to know which way to jump at times!
Julie

Dottie, what do you mean by "good company" way?

Anyway, my DS10 (5th) has a pretty similar score:
VCI 132
PRI 139
WMI 132
PSI 121
FSIQ 140 / GAI 143

So he also didn't meet the DYS cut-off, and I don't think he's at that level (his WISC-IV result surprised us). DYS is certainly a great thing if he can get in. We haven't done any achievement testing yet. The only other test he took was SCAT (V 463 and Math 495). I don't think we have access to Explore test in CA. That leaves us with SAT or the costly individual achievement test.

Considering his scores so far, do you think we should consider the achievement test? How closely does achievement test match IQ test (score-wise) in general?