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    Joined: Jan 2011
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    3DMom Offline OP
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    Hello there and thank you for your time in responding to my post. To give you the short version I am a mom who has been searching for answers for 4 years. My son, who is now 7, has been a challenge to raise. Moody to be polite. To the point a dr even prescribed him antidepressants.The end of last school year his teacher thought he needed special needs classes. The begining of this school year his teacher says he is a few levels above his grade. last year aspergers was mentioned this year gifted. I am frustrated i want my child to be both challenged and supported in whatever gifts/challenges he faces. I just dont know what that is and noone around him seems to know either. Although his IQ has not been tested yet, his intelligence is apparent. Could you all please help me out but highlighting your observatation of gifted kids both the positive and negative or point me in a direction I can obtain this information?

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    In my opinion, there is no one size fits all. Even with two kids that have the same IQ. Some are introverted, some extroverted.

    And I think that when I was new and reading posts, sometimes I built up expectations in certain areas, and I got confused because my child is different than what I read.

    I also find things things that I don't read on this board, there are nuances, strategic thinking that are anecdotal but unusual and things as a parent I learn about about my child and must see she has her own path.

    My child is extroverted and an only child, which means that she likes being at school because there are other kids. I do supplement horizontally and vertically. Vertically with math online, CTY. Horizontally she takes piano, goes to Mandarin (she has spanish and chess as part of her school -- grade 1), science program at the museum, ballet and gymnastics. She also takes swimming tennis in the summer. We also travel alot -- she is 6 and has been to 11 countries. She goes skiing and horse back riding. She is a child that like activity and constantly asks questions. I got her a globe so when a question comes up about a country we can see where it is, she has a child dictionary to look up words. She is very curious and I try to provide tools for her to satisfy the curiousity.

    She also enjoys reading and she goes to the library to find her own books. She likes science experiments and her father has done those with her since was 3.

    This is what my child needs. And I could see her being more than "moody" without the stimulation. I also watch what she eats. Not that she doesn't ever get KitKats or M&Ms but her personality changes and she cannot do anything with her brain after treats like that.

    I rambled but I hope my post provides you with a perspective on your question.

    Ren

    She loves

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    3D mom,
    I am coming from this perspective: my DS8 is both gifted and has Asperger's. It's perfectly possible to have two or more things going on with the same child, which may be why you are getting confusing explanations.

    I would say that you should have your child evaluated by a professional, so you can figure out what's going on in his particular case. A neuropsychologist or developmental pediatrician would be a good place to start.

    I'm not going to recapitulate all my recent posts on this here, but if you search my posts, you will find a lot on this topic.

    Best wishes,
    DeeDee

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    Hi and welcome 3DMom. That sounds like you may be just at the very beginning of this journey, so I'm answering as if this is the case.

    First, you should be congratulated for continuing to look for answers for your son. He is luck to have such a determined mom. smile Second, you should know that giftedness is something that is misunderstood an awful lot by people who *should* be experts (such as teachers, and other school personnel) especially if it is 'out there' intelligence and not just enough to do well answering questions at school.

    A great place to start with LOTS of articles about giftedness and gifted children is Hoagies ( http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/ ) especially the gifted 101 ( http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/gifted_101.htm ) After reading there and looking around a bit you may find that you have a better idea of what you are dealing with. For me the shock of recognition was amazing!

    If you take a look around this forum, as I'm sure you are, you will see plenty of stories of children who are both gifted and facing other challenges. Alternatively, there are a lot of stories about just 'plain gifted' children who were presenting with behavior that looked a bit like Aspergers whatever that were actually a perfectly 'normal' response to a completely inappropriate educational environment, and the 'problem' went away when the environment was fixed. I wish I could tell you which category your son falls into! wink I have heard many on this forum and others recommend a book called something like "Misdiagnosis and dual diagnosis of gifted children" or something like that (please help me out someone!?!) but I haven't read it myself. It is supposed to help tease out these issues.

    I haven't had my children tested. We are not in the school system so I don't really need to at this stage, but if you are in the system and are fighting for an appropriate education for your son, that might be something to consider. It may give you the information you need at this point. Others may be able to give more specific information about that, or you might find some on the forum.

    I hope some of this is of some assistance to you.

    FWIW, with all the challenges and extra stress having gifted children - or adults - brings to my life, I wouldn't trade it's richness and thrills for anything else! smile

    (Will someone please remind me of that next time I'm here to gripe! wink LOL)

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    GeoMamma ... all great advice. The book you reference is "Misdiagnosis And Dual Diagnoses Of Gifted Children And Adults: ADHD, Bipolar, OCD, Asperger's, Depression, And Other Disorders" by James T. Webb.

    The idea of a gifted child having other obstacles is classified under 2E (Twice Exceptional). You should be able to do a search with that and gifted and come up with some information. And as GeoMamma stated, the professionals SHOULD understand this but many see it as two extremes and never think there could be a connection.

    Anyway, welcome to the board. You have found a great place with some wonderful knowledgeable people who are here for each other. I hope you find this to be the case.

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    Thanks Katelyn'sMom, I knew someone would know it better than I did smile

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    I wish I could rememeber where I read this quote....

    "Being gifted is not a gift"


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    3DMom,

    I assume your child is in 2nd grade? Is he in public school? Just curious. Anyway, I'm a gifted teacher. I service students from grades k-2. I don't blame you for being confused on what to think about your son with so many different ideas being thrown at you. I do want to tell you that a regular education teacher has no idea of what a gifted student looks like. I do many observations and assessments of k-2 students and when I point out a student to a teacher, sometimes they will say to me "Oh, he's not gifted, he has behavior problems", or he is too "quirky" to be gifted, or "he never does his work, he can't be gifted." I could go on...my point is, that most gifted students are quirky, have behavior issues, don't do their work, and/or get bad grades. It's not the acievment that gifted teachers look for, it's the child's perspective on things. Not how well they can add, subtract, multilply or divide. We don't even consider that (unless the child is in kindergarten and able to do calculus). Gifted teachers look at how a child learns. Gifted students are "gifted" because the learn in a different way, they see the world in a different way, they process information in a different way.

    I don't want to ramble (too late!!) but I wanted to comment on your post because there are so many misconceptions from teachers, I just wanted to make you aware of that. Please ask away if you want to know more. smile

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    Originally Posted by imakeyouthink11
    3DMom,

    It's not the acievment that gifted teachers look for, it's the child's perspective on things. Not how well they can add, subtract, multilply or divide. We don't even consider that (unless the child is in kindergarten and able to do calculus). Gifted teachers look at how a child learns. Gifted students are "gifted" because the learn in a different way, they see the world in a different way, they process information in a different way.


    I needed this - I'm often worrying that I've misunderstood, because my children aren't doing calculus. But they do seem to think differently to other children.

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    My DS has worn all of the labels. Autism at 2, aspergers at 3 blah, blah, blah.....

    Now at 8 he's just plain amazing. I would suggest that you start with educating yourself on www.hoagies.com as someone else suggested. Look for things that resemble your child, then throw out those that don't. Paint yourself a picture, make a list, identify all the pieces that you are dealing with. Be sure to read the areas that discuss OE's (overexcitabilities)which is really common in GT kids. That would explain his moodiness. There has been several studies that indicate EQ mirrors IQ.I have first hand knowledge of that!

    When you feel like you've got that, the next step IMO would be testing. There are several differrent ways to go about this. You can request it from the school and they may or may not comply. Private testing is an option but it can be pricey. It's also important to find a tester that understands GT. Many testers spend most of their time testing the opposite end of the spectrum and when confronted with a truly exceptional child, fail to present a clear picture. If you have a University near you, you may be able to have him tested there by a student. Make sure that on this road there is a knowledgeable proctor overseeing the test.

    Neuropsych would help you with determining whether there is something such as Aspergers at play, but most insurance companies won't pay for testing unless you can prove overwhelming need.

    The most important thing is to educate yourself. BELIEVE your "mommy gut". You know your child better than anyone. If the alarm bells are ringing, listen to them. Talk to your son. Ask him what he feels and thinks. Ask specific questions about school. Is it too easy? Ask him if given the chance what is the one thing he'd most like to learn? Then go out and find it! You would be surprised how much behavior changes when a child is truly engaged in their passion. Be flexible, let him lead and delight in every second!

    Tes results in hand, questions answered in your head,you'll be in a much better position to determine what you're son needs.

    Last but not least, enjoy the ride! These kids are not what any of us pictured during pregnancy, but damn are they fun!

    If you have any more questions (and you will, thousands)we're always here. We've been there, we understand!

    Good luck!


    Shari
    Mom to DS 10, DS 11, DS 13
    Ability doesn't make us, Choices do!
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    Here's an article about gifted adults, but it sounds like it applies to your son's situation:

    Originally Posted by http://talentdevelop.com/articles/Self-Knowledge.html
    Self-Knowledge, Self-Esteem and the Gifted Adult
    by Stephanie S. Tolan


    Abstract: Self-identification as a gifted adult is complicated by the great diversity among the gifted adult population. What does a gifted adult look like? Unfortunately, for many gifted adults, it looks like somebody else. Using a metaphor of Dots and Spaces, the author explains how we tend to see our own deficits (spaces) but others' gifts (dots). This negatively affects self-esteem and often causes gifted assets to be viewed as mere "weirdness."


    Many gifted adults seem to know very little about their minds and how they differ from more "ordinary" minds. The result of this lack of self-knowledge is often low, sometimes cripplingly low self esteem.


    Most have never been formally identified as gifted, and even those who have may disbelieve the identification or have difficulty incorporating it into their sense of themselves.

    Though women are particularly hard-pressed in our culture to recognize and fully utilize unusual intelligence, uncertainty about gifts can affect both males and females, especially those who are not recognized as intellectual achievers.


    Strangely, even among men and women who are recognized achievers, the "impostor-syndrome" is widely reported. These people go along routinely doing what few others can do, all the while dreading the moment when the world will find them out and discover that they are the fakes they believe themselves to be.

    DOTS AND SPACES

    The problem with identifying and discussing the "gifted" is that they are as diverse a population as can be gathered together under any single label. They have, of course, the individual differences of the rest of humanity in temperament, personality, size and shape, life experience, socio-economic class, gender, race, ethnic background.


    But they also differ from the norms and from one another because of the complexity of the workings of their minds. This diversity may be a primary reason for the inability to recognize and understand the extent of one's intelligence.

    MENTAL CAPACITY AND INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES

    In simple terms, the more limited the mental capacity or the lower the IQ, the more similarities will be apparent between individuals. It's easy to understand why this is so. In the normal range of intelligence (into which approximately 90% of the population falls) there are many different mental abilities widely and variously distributed.


    Consequently, within the broad limits of "normality" there are many and obvious individual variations. Most of the individual differences between people are therefore taken as just that -- individual differences -- unrelated to mental capacity.

    As one moves downward from the range of "normal" intelligence, the number of mental abilities individuals exhibit is increasingly restricted -- and so the range of activities and behaviors of those individuals is similarly restricted. The result is that individuals seem to be considerably more alike.

    Their similarities are fairly commonly recognized as relating to the level of their intelligence. In some cases speech patterns and even bodily postures and movements are clearly similar.


    Tom Hanks, portraying the fictional title character in the movie "Forest Gump" was able to convincingly give the impression of mild retardation not just through the content of the character's lines, but by molding his voice and his movements, even his facial expressions to those patterns.

    At the other end of the scale, the higher the IQ or greater the intellectual capacity, the more individual differences there will be between individuals. No single person can possibly have all the many capacities available to the extraordinary, beyond-the-norms, human mind.


    So each individual will exhibit a constellation of these capacities that will be different from the constellation of any other individual.

    If we were to think of each of these various unusual mental capacities (e.g. photographic memory, lightning mathematical calculation, the ability to visualize clearly, speed reading, quick spatial pattern recognition, ease in learning languages, metaphorical thought and speech) as "dots" and the lack of them as "spaces," we would see very different patterns in different individuals, even if IQ scores seemed to indicate great similarity.

    Because of these varied patterns each highly gifted individual is likely to feel very different from other highly gifted individuals and this sense of difference is likely to create a sense of inequality.

    No matter what the individual's pattern of dots and spaces may be, there is a tendency for the person to take his or her own dots for granted. "Lightning calculation is just something I do," a person might say. "A knack I have."

    There is no great sense of accomplishment for an attribute that seems to have been with one all one's life, even if that attribute contributes to unusual and high levels of achievement in a culturally recognized field. "Oh, sure, I'm good at math. What could you expect from somebody who calculates that fast." We're likely to value something we've had to work at or study hard to acquire far more highly than something that comes naturally -- something that's just "me."

    Meantime, the "spaces," those things that we can't do (or that we do poorly) that someone else can do, easily and well, we're likely to consider really important, particularly if there is a cultural cache to being able to do them. We will feel our lack acutely, and since there are probably a variety of spaces in our particular constellation of abilities just as there are a variety of dots, if we focus heavily on the spaces, we may feel actually incompetent rather than unusually able.


    We are not comparing ourselves broadly to other people in the normal ranges, but to people outside the norms who have patterns of unusual abilities different from our own.

    Because individual differences within the normal range are considered ordinary, typical of the complex species humans are, and in no way related to levels of intelligence, people with the greater differences created by extreme intelligence may dismiss those differences, too, as "ordinary, typical of the complex species humans are."


    They may never consider that their differences are related to unusual intelligence and considerably outside the norms.

    INEVITABLE COMPARISONS

    A person whose dots create a pattern that allows him or her to become a theoretical physicist is likely to be thought of by most people as an unusually bright person. Our culture values scientific exploration highly and readily concedes that it takes unusual mental capabilities to engage in such activities at a high level.

    But the theoretical physicist may or may not agree with that cultural evaluation, depending on what spaces (and how many) he feels he must work around. While he may not feel inferior to a novelist (because a novelist's work is not culturally perceived as either as challenging or as intellectually important as theoretical physics) he may feel distinctly inferior to another physicist who never forgets a detail from a journal article she's read or invariably remembers the specific citation.


    He may feel inferior to someone who is better organized or more verbal or who does a better job of writing up his findings, or can maneuver more successfully in academic politics.

    On the other hand, the novelist is likely to assume that what he or she does is not particularly intellectually challenging, as compared, for instance, to the work of a theoretical physicist.


    Being able to envision settings and characters and transfer that complex and many-dimensional visual imagery into the linear realm of language, to develop an interesting plot or create a character that is both believable and emotionally commanding, to keep a story line and a philosophical argument balanced and moving, all may seem ordinary stuff to one for whom it is a "dot," one who does it naturally. "I'm not all that bright," the novelist may say or feel, "I just have this talent."

    Meantime, if the novelist's computer goes down, the person who can come in and fix it, who understands how it works and what might have gone wrong, who can tinker with it and get it going again, seems to be "the smart one."

    All these people, the computer whiz, the novelist and the theoretical physicists could have comparable (even identical) extremely high IQ scores. But each may see someone else as the "really gifted" person.

    Unusually intelligent people, probably because they are used to being able to do things well that other people struggle with and have extremely high expectations of themselves, may be especially aware of and self-conscious about their spaces.


    The combination of focusing on one's spaces while taking one's dots for granted, perceiving that there are huge numbers of dots that others may have that one does not, and valuing other people's dots more highly than one's own, can lead an extremely intelligent person to feel "dumb" or inadequate.

    Add the sense of being different that plagues many gifted people (particularly those at the highest ranges) and the result can be a seriously distorted self-image and very low self esteem. As a brilliant and internationally recognized writer friend of mine told me when I dared to suggest that she was gifted, "Oh, no, I'm not gifted, I'm just weird."

    Looking at giftedness from the "dots and spaces" perspective might not instantly convince a gifted adult that she is indeed gifted, or solve the self-esteem problems of a lifetime, but it can give her a new way of looking at herself, a clearer view of the abilities she has at her command.


    How we live our lives has a great deal to do not just with who we are, but who we believe ourselves to be. Learning to celebrate our own constellation of dots can begin a process of self-understanding that can lead to real and positive changes in gifted lives.

    ~ ~ ~

    Stephanie S. Tolan, M.A., award-winning author of books for children, such as Welcome to the Ark, and co-author of Guiding the Gifted Child, also writes and speaks about the needs of the gifted.


    originally published in Advanced Development Journal, Volume 8, 1999
    Stephanie S. Tolan website: stephanietolan.com

    interview with Stephanie Tolan
    What's that I hear? Pennies dropping? A whole bucketful of pennies dropping? What a sweet sound, yes?

    Grinity


    Coaching available, at SchoolSuccessSolutions.com
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