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Recently, we found that my 7yo (will be 8 in a month), PG son who has visual processing and sensory issues, also has Auditory Processing issues to boot.

We brought him to a Speech Therapist who will begin APD therapy with him. But she also mentioned that he has an issue with organization. When asked to write a story, he's just overflowing with information and ideas, but has difficulty organizing these into a palatable manner on paper. She'd like him to have a second weekly session with him to sort this out (making it twice weekly at the Speech Therapist).

I'm wondering - is this overkill? Do organizational issues take care of themselves after awhile when they mature? He's actually improved tremendously in the last 6months when he writes simple stories for school. But when it comes to a topic he loves (anything science-y), he gets all excited and ends up chatting non-stop as the ideas tumble out and is unable to get anything on paper.

Hi Blob,
My son has a few learning challenges that are very similar to what you describe. While he has never been formally tested by an audiologist, most experts suspect CAPD. Additionally, he has some executive functioning difficulties that manifest themselves in the way that he organizes, retrieves and expresses language. All at the same time, he is an auditory learner, and extremely verbal. Your description of your son hits home with me.

You ask if the additional s&l questions is overkill. It's hard to tell based on your short description. Would you mind filling in with a bit more background?

1. What prompted the evaluation that uncovered the processing deficits? How is he doing in school - what is he good at, does he struggle in any areas?
2. Is he at public school on an IEP? If so, what does he get for services? What are his goal areas? How is his progress?
3. Are there any familial LD's? Signs of attention problems? How is he at initiating and staying on task for undesirable activities (self care, cleaning room, homework etc)
4. When he was tested, did the evaluator comment on his ability to see the big picture vs the details?
5. How are his motor skills?

Organizational skills usually do not take care of themselves. In fact, as the complexity of life and school increases and the volume and demand increases, these organizational skills become more troublesome. People that have difficulty organizing their expressive language in conversation struggle with writing. They may have a plethora of good ideas, a sound knowledge of the facts, and ability catch on to new concepts, but they are often unable to express themselves fluently and coherently without extra time, scaffolding and structure. As the child moves up the grades, there performance in class discussions and on open response test items can suffer.

I am not predicting that this will happen with your son, but it has with mine. He never qualified for speech services because on structured tests he always scored in the 90 percentile or higher (superior range). Yet, when it comes to real life verbal expression, he struggles to get the words out - orally and on paper.

My DS7 has an issue with getting his words out as well. Especially when it's something he's excited about. I've taught him how to outline papers before he tries to write anything down and this has helped enormously with his written skills. He basically dumps everthing in his head onto a piece of paper, then spends some time sorting it all out. Only then does he begin to work on the assignment.

The first few times we did this, I wrote down the ideas as they tumbled out in spits and spurts. It has taken some time but it has helped a lot.

Tks Shari!

I had to make some quick decisions and already declined the second session. My thinking is this - DS just got pulled out to homeschool, so all the more he doesn't have papers to hand in. I'm requiring him to write up something about once in 2 weeks or so, and with me around, it's easy. I'm his first-line scribe too where he just talks at me and I write (this is indulgent of me but if I asked him to do it, poof, there goes!). After that, he gets to sort it out and write it out anyway he likes. It's not great, but he's eager to have a go at it. So we're off to a good start .

Mich,

Some background - gosh, to think it started 3 years ago when we trotted off to the OT after DS had some serious spills. He'd always been clumsy and I thought he'd grow out of it. Once we got there, he was diagnosed with sensory processing issues as well as weak gross motor skills. He'd always complained of jumping words and headaches when he read, so it wasn't hard to see that he had visual issues as well. He's been going to the OT ever since, till I stopped it recently because he plateaued. He still has problems with sports, but I'm thinking it's part of his visual issues, which will improve as he continues with his vision exercises,

Auditory processing is new to me. There were tell tale signs that I never picked up on but in hindsight, they were there. He never liked bedtime stories or to be read to. I used to think he was a great learner but a bad student, because he'd tune me out even when he asked for help. He'd eventually work it out, so I learnt to let go. He'd say things like, "I can hear you, but my brain is talking too loudly for your voice to register". This past year, he bombed a math acceleration test even though he aced a similar one 6mths earlier. The tester said that he wasn't listening to instructions. I toyed with the idea of APD but the local hospital gave him a preliminary screen and said his hearing was normal, so it wasn't likely. I read enough to know that wasn't 100% correct, but on the other hand, he speaks like, my neighbour says, an old professor. He even spoke early at 6mths! I had a conversation with him about his nanny leaving when he was 14mths, and I could see how sad he was.

Because of his continuing vision problems, we decided to bring him to a behavioural optometrist in a different country a month ago (there are none here where I live). I got referrals from a psychologist who asked me to fill this 8-pager questionnaire. Bingo - that's where they caught the first hint. She asked that he see an audiologist as well, and hence the diagnosis.

To answer your questions, he did great in school. He got accelerated 2 years for math. The teacher thought he'd bomb his language exam because it involved writing a short story but he refused to write in school. So I trained him for 2 weeks. All it meant was starting off a zany story, getting him excited, and he'd finish the rest. I didn't correct what he wrote - I just praised him a lot. He got an A for the exam, like he did for the rest of the other subjects.

I felt that he always had some attention issues because he doesn't listen to me. His psych didn't think he had ADHD since he could play with Lego or read - he'd go back and forth on these 2 activities the whole day, in hindsight, perhaps because his eyes got tired and he'd need a break. After I started him on a GFCF diet, his focus zoomed up. Really amazing, I have to say! He's in a competition math class and is starting to excel - I'm guessing that he'd just get to work on the problem and not have to listen to solutions, especially when he's correct.

About initiating undesirable activities - going to school is one! He begged so hard to be homeschooled probably because listening is so tough for him, and it's boring because he's past the curriculum. He finds his vision exercises a chore, but if I assign him the responsibility, he'd do better than if he took step by step instructions from me.

The APD is troubling. It hasn't affected him academically, but I wonder if the appropriate word is yet. His brain just goes off on a tangent on something that to him is related, but not to others! And then he's on a roll regardless of the efforts to rein him in. I'm hoping that APD therapy can help him pick up instructions better or chime in on his thoughts.

I hear what you're saying about organization skills. He did have problems managing his homework (mostly pretended he didn't have any until I received The Call from the teacher) but I wonder if it's because he found it absolutely meaningless. He had no problems for work he liked. I wonder if there is a difference between strong will and lack of organization, hmm.

Tks for all the questions, Mich! It really helps in my own thought process as well.

For an organizantionl tool for writing look at the Inspiration mapping program for the computer. It lets kids put down ideas an create webs for connecting ideas. It is a visual way to work with some kinestics. Ideas can be color coded or graphics added. From there a written piece is created. It is a good way for some kids to see that that idea just doesn't belong here. Just one more idea.

From what I've read about auditory processing, which is a lot, the child did not have a proper filing system when he was born. [My DS has expressive language disorder, which could be CAPD in some cases, but not in ours, hence my research.] So, these files need to be set up in order to put things into them. It seems that if the file is not there from which to pull it out, he would be able to blurt out a bunch of info and then organize it afterwards. If the files are there to begin with, which an SLP who specializes in CAPD would be able to help with, the organization would happen in his mind - and the earlier that happens the better. Make sure that the SLP does specialize in CAPD! It may not be as easy with things that don't interest him as much because the information is all just "floating around" with little relational value in his head, therefore making it harder to access when needed. They need to be able to relate things to each other; and the filing helps. It may be helpful to you and your DS, since you are taking him once a week, to ask the SLP to give you take home work to do with your DS, and/or to sit in with him on part of the sessions so that you have an understanding of what she is doing with him. If the child is uber-interested in a subject, he may have some kind of organization of his own in his head; but it may not be what will help him optimally, especially when he has to go off to college. Just trying to help. Good luck.:)

Tks for this, vicam. The webpage looks really interesting. Will check ot out.

Mom0405, tks for your thoughts. Your post made me dig deeper into what auditory processing disorder is. I really have to think through. Wonder if I'm still in half denial ... What's very true is that if he has no understanding of a concept, he'll have zero recall. I will speak to the SLP about this and see how we can work at this.

Mom0405 - great explanation - this is what I see with my ds. What has helped my guy is learning a very structured approach for organizing his thoughts, as well as an approach to improve word retrieval. When someone gives him a system to use, he is better able to organize what he knows using the system and express it more coherently, cohesively and completely.

Things like Brain Frames, Mind Maps and programs like EMPOWER can be helpful.

Again, as the load increases and school becomes more voluminous and complex, these kinds of organizational problems can become very difficult.

If your child has not be thoroughly evaluated by either the school or a private evaluator, I would recommend doing so. This problems often do not happen in isolation. The difficulties you describe with motor skills could indicate some overall difficulties with planning, sequencing and overall organization. This can manifest itself in academics, social situations and physically. Early intervention is best, and often when a child gets the strategies in place in elementary school, they can be off and running in MS and HS.

blob, It could just be a visual spatial thing as well. Your mentioning the "zero understanding" model may just seem that way because he is trying to link it to something for more of a whole world view/how do these things relate? And then "aha" happens - yes? My DS is very VSL. I see the wheels turning in his head as he does this; and I try to relate it to other things, or go where he wants to go with it, through his avenue of thinking. I feel fortunate that my mind can do that for him (I homeschool). Like mich said, try figure it out now - early intervention is best. My DS's language is so much further along than it would have been if I had the wait and see attitude that his ped prescribed. All your sons strengths will probably move him along quickly in his progress.:)

Thanks, mich, for the program tips! We are always looking for ways to help link things together.