Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Parenting Dilemma - extracurriculars

I am curious to know if and how parents dealt with children who are academically very gifted (especially in the areas of science) but are also heavily involved in year-around competitive athletics training. (or something similar). It seems that as kids get older, the two do not mix if you want to pursue both at higher levels. As an example, highly motivated science students, will likely involve themselves in Science clubs during the year (Olympiad, Science Bowls etc), and may spend their free times and summers doing science research projects or attending some competitive science programs at some university. That�s what I hear anyway. But the demands and schedules of athletic training, in our case USA swimming, would likely limit available time to pursue such academic pursuits afterschool and during the summers. Personally, I think the academic pursuits are more important especially if you have the gift for it, since, ultimately that�s what leads to college and career interests, but I do see the benefits of high-level athletic training too.

My DH and I are non-athletic, very academic (and musically inclined). Get the type. My older one is very passionate about science, taking after her dad, (physics, astronomy, biology etc), a walking science encyclopedia and uber-creative (both in art, writing and general creative-problem solving). I do think her �creative mind� and academic orientation is her greatest asset. Yet, she is very dedicated to her swimming, which she trains for 5 days a week/two hours a day, year-around, and competes. She is not the best out there, by any means, but is improving at a rapid pace given her dedication. The swim coaches are great mentors to her and the comraderie gained from her teammates (and her sister, also a swimmer) are all super wonderful, as she has really gained greater self-confidence, self-awareness, better time-management skills and the mental toughness to withstand the rigorous daily training and racing. While I don�t see her as the college athlete yet (and maybe I�m wrong), that�s what she wants to do.

But as a middle-schooler, she is already running into the �conflicts� that I mentioned above..for instances the swim season including championships, all conflict with any summer academic opportunities. (she did CTY summer program in the past, now, it will be hard to get away to do it). Even the science olympiad team try-out this year which was extremely competitive, (and they only took five 6th graders), she was in the final running for one of the team spots given her extensive science �enrichment� experiences, try-out construction demo, eligibility science tests, overall grades and finally teacher recommendations, she was ultimately passed over for someone who was �less busy�. (of course, a twelve-year old did not do herself a favor by meticulously listing out her current schedule, and not envision, perhaps she can cut those other activities out had she been chosen, but that�s a separate issue)

It got me thinking though � if I see her passion and talent in science and academics, should I be gently �leading� her away from the sport that she is committed now, as she enters high school? I hate for her to forego academic opportunities that may otherwise be available to her. Unfortunately, swimming is an endurance and training-intensive year-around sport, couple weeks of getting away during the height of the season, or missing daily training, can completely undo you for the rest of the season. The other slight complication is that her sister, also very academically talented but in a more general way, is also a very talented swimmer ranked nationally (I can envision her swimming at college level and beyond) � so our family activities do center around swimming, though our daily �dinner-table� discussions will often involve lots of science and math (led by my engineering DH).

If anyone can relate to the dilemma as a parent, I would sure appreciate any comment. Ultimately the child will decide, but in my case, the child hates to be a quitter, and will dedicate themselve whole-heartedly to everything that they do until the parent intervenes saying enough is enough. So far, keeping up the grades is no problem, so balance is not the issue, but it�s a matter of long-term prioritization....

I can relate to the dilemma. DS (11) has discovered figure skating and it is a challenge to get him the ice practice time he needs and fit in science olympiad and chorus and acting class. So far, I've been hesitant to gently lead him away from anything since these activities literally save him and give him a positive to look forward to after school.

I suspect that as he gets older, he will drop things over time. If not...I'll be looking back at this post to see what gems of wisdom I can gleam from your post

We have been through the high school/extracurricular conflict experience twice (one D in college now, one a sophomore in high school). Here are some thoughts:

- There is no real way to "have it all" with too many extracurriculars. Painful decisions will need to be made. Better to make the decisions before their grades slip than in the middle of a crisis... we have been through a mid-semester meltdown in high school, and our older D had to drop a sport mid-season. She left another sport after her sophomore year, after being elected team captain for the next year. Just too much on her plate to keep up her grades. Almost every activity requires a higher and higher level of commitment as the years go on.

- A smaller school (our Ds go to a small private) offers some benefits in this area. WIth fewer kids, those running the clubs and extracurriculars have to accept that most of the kids do multiple activities. They generally don't have as much leverage as coaches at bigger schools where there is always another kid waiting for a spot to open up.

- So few kids get athletic scholarships... and it seems to me that the families usually pay almost the amount of the scholarships in costs for the sport. Of course, there are many other benefits in sports participation.

- Our younger D ended up dropping her main "school" sport this year and switching to fencing. We have gone from daily practices and weekend tournaments to twice a week lessons/practice sessions (that can be missed if there is a conflict with some other activity). Probably will go to 3 times a week next year, and maybe add some tournaments. She will probably not fence in college, but it has given her a more flexible sport schedule that she enjoys and that keeps her in shape.

Just some thoughts... good luck!

Let me preface this with saying this was my philosophy for raising my kids, so it may or may not mesh with your own. Just sharing what's worked for us.

What I wanted most for my kids is that they be well balanced. I didn't care if they had the best grades, were the best athlete, or had first chair in the band. What I wanted is to allow our kids to explore all aspects of learning and creativity, so we made two rules with all of our kids:

1. When you start school, you add one sport and one musical instrument to the mix. You can try whatever you want, but you can't just quit. If you decide you don't like one sport, you need to find something else to replace it. If you decide you want to drop one instrument, you need to find another.

2. You may only participate in one team sport at a time. You may only take lessons for one musical instrument at a time.

By the way, both of my older kids ended up being nationally ranked in the sport they chose, and because of their dedication and commitment we definitely did the whole drama thing - throwing up before competitions from nerves, meltdowns afterwards. But going through those experiences and learning how to draw somewhere deep down to get through the nerves, to give everything and find out that sometimes it was enough and sometimes it wasn't - there were lessons they learned in sports that I don't think they could have learned in academics.

My son did have to quit band in high school - not because he wanted to but because the band director made him quit when he missed a practice for a sports practice.

You're right that most kids don't get scholarships for sports, but the lessons they learn are still quite beneficial. Plus, getting them to engage in physical activity on a daily basis is such an important habit for a healthy adulthood.

Oh, and I did refuse to let my youngest join soccer when I found out it required us to commit 6 days a week to it. There were other sports that could teach the same lesson without eating up our entire lives. He's picked swimming and is loving it.

My room-mate in college was a nationally ranked swimmer on a full-ride scholarship, and also gifted academically.

I can't recommend scholarships... it's getting paid to swim and swimming at a competitive 1st tier type school means extreme hours. To the detriment of the rest of college. With a scholarship it's very difficult to quit (guilt over burdening family with payments, guilt over letting down school, guilt over letting oneself down as one has been dreaming of scholarship for a long time). If doing it voluntarily many quit a year or two in.

Swimming and doing well at a state or national level if it's not burdensome emotionally or to grades is probably not a bad way to have more choice of colleges, especially if one is not a beacon of giftedness. If it's the least bit detrimental to grades or SATs then it has backfired as a way to enhance college applications (unless the person is truly nationally competitive). There are easier ways to get into college -- start a collection for a cross-religious-affiliation public swimming pool in Afghanistan or something.

Longterm, in terms of preparation for life, it probably won't matter that a kid swam but didn't have a summer job, or swam but didn't go to a academic summer camp, for 5 or 10 years. My roommate, who did nothing but swim her entire childhood, has done great at whatever she tries.

But from a emotional perspective of getting through adolescence and young adulthood, most people who have multiple interests and activities are more happy and more well-balanced than people who focus on one thing. My roommate had a high school pregnancy termination after sleeping with a swim coach -- too many hours unsupervised without any friends but those in swimming. 95% of her college swim-team-mates had eating disorders from years of obsessive focus on the ideal swim weight.

My roommate's swim team ended up almost all in careers they never would have chosen but for trying to find something easy to major in (due to the time commitment of swimming). oriented/determined/success-driven sorts of personalities. That is the real downside of college swimming, it's so time-consuming there is not much time for college.

On the plus side they were all people had mastered themselves, discipline and positive thinking, and are all capable of great things in most any field if they set themselves to it. They take on anything.

Summary: Swimming for fun -- great idea, do it now or later but not all through, that way one can make other friends and have other experiences. Swimming to get into college -- depends on the individual, there are easier ways usually but can be a great option for some. Swimming to get a scholarship -- only do it if you have to.

Polly

I am at a point of looking at choices for DD6, since some sport require more commitment at 7 already, and looking at my own history. I was a highly competitive figure skater and spent my summers in Colorado Springs, waking up at 4 to be on the ice at 4:50 (this was my 6 days a week summer schedule).

I am going to interject a positive I just heard yesterday, then get back to my opinion. Heard of a really smart girl, perfect scores on the SAT, now at Harvard, went through regular public schools in NJ. The difference for Harvard was the fact that she was a strong fencer and she is co-captain of their fencing team. No athletic scholarship but fencing put her over the top for college admission.

Anyway, if your child gets to the Olympic team level, there is little room for other extracurriculars. I remember holding on to piano and ballet for a little while but by 14 there wasn't anything but skating. I had skipped a couple of grades by then and school was still easy so keeping up at school was not a problem and I missed about 1/4 of the school year to go skate during the day.

If your child really wants to pursue a sport, I think they are going to really push. I am hoping DD doesn't and can participate in a range of things.

Even travel gets cut-off when you have to commit to a sport. If DD went to preteam on gymnastics next year, she would have to go 4:30-7 on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We cannot even make that commitment because her science class at the museum is only on one night and the age group meets on that particular night, no option, and we are not going to cut science for gymnastics.

Ren

If my kids really wanted to do a particular extracurricular and they were working really hard at it and seeing results from their hard work, I would try to home school to accommodate both the extracurricular and high achievement in academics.

A very smart teen does not need to be at school 180 days/year, six hours/day for four years to work through a HS curriculum. They can learn a lot more, a lot faster at home.

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies! I really appreciate hearing other parents thoughts as they go through the same for their kids.

elh0706- agree with you that it is hard to pull it away, as long as they are achieving the grades. In my older case, it is the swimming, fencing, Math Contest Club and violin � wish she could do the science more in lieu of these, since that�s her real interest, but, perhaps next year with the science olympiad. Mon, kcab, intparent, Polly, ABQmom � you all bring up good points about finding a better balance with the chosen sport - either through high school team sports, or choosing another sport that may be more seasonal or less time-consuming � I am indeed interested to see what other athletic opportunities may arise as they reach high school (for instance, track & field � my older one really likes running the local 5k races). Wren and JaneSmith, you bring up good insights about how to balance school and chosen EC if you truly become highly competitive at a national or international level. And Polly, you are right that I probably shouldn�t stress too much about how she spends her summers, I suppose she will decide her priorities as she grow older, she will realize her potential, what�s more important as college looms, and there is no �script� for success.

In our case, our high school choice may very well determine where sports and ECs fit in to all of this. Locally, we only have 2 choices, both public, one is a very demanding IB program (with very little emphasis on sports), and the other is a very typical high school, not great, but enough AP classes. The pros and cons are numerous for both, but I�m told it is very rare for the swimmers from our team to attend the IB program, just because both would be too demanding. My girls are attending an IB middle school now, so the IB high school would be the natural progression (and socially, probably a better fit too). That will be a very tough decision for us when the time comes as I�ve heard horror stories about the amount of group projects and other time consuming assignments that our local IB high school program seems to assign their students and many have to quit their EC s, while for others it seems to work. (I admit, I like what I saw with their curriculum though). I have looked into EPGY OHS and it looks great -- tabling the idea as a possibility. The �regular� high school would also be a solution too, although, we would really have to push the school for acceleration since they�ve always been an accelerated track, and that school doesn�t offer advanced math courses beyond Calculus BC.

Back to the swimming, I personally know only one or two ex-collegiate swimmers (at Brown and Stanford), who went on to medical schools for graduate work (ie. So they were successful in their academics, both before and during college). One was our swim coach for one summer (in between his undergrad and grad school), when the girls used to swim summer league, and he was extremely positive about his collegiate swim experience at Brown (he was even the Team Captain). So I guess I had a rather positive (albiet na�ve view) of what collegiate swim was about. Scholarship was not necessarily something I was thinking about, since that is so hard (and the chance of getting one small), but I always thought it would be great for the kids to keep up what they love, if they still do love swimming beyond high school. I also agree the physical training they are getting now, will help them establish a very healthy lifestyle when they become adults, and that I think is important....

I should add a note that it wasn't all roses and bouquets for me as a mom with two of my kids so committed to climbing. There were times I greatly resented the amount of time it took up and the fact that our family vacation money every year was used to travel to competitions in nearby states and to a different national location each year, since one of them made it that far every year. And I worried what the stress of that kind of training and competition would do to their psyche over time.

But looking back on it in hindsight as I see my daughter, almost 20, and son, 17, move on to college, I can see the benefits. I've come to understand that gifted kids need more on their plate and can handle more than most. What seemed overwhelming for me wasn't for them.

Thanks, ABQMom, for sharing the reflection and words of wisdom. Indeed, I do see that gifted kids indeed can handle more and need more stimulation to bring out their best. And you are right that it doesn't always feel so easy as the parent as we help them navigate....