Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments I'm new here,preparing for a big meeting on DS.

Can you advise? Much of this is crossposted, but I'm scrambling so please forgive me.

My son is 8, in third grade in a charter school he's attending for the first time this year. At his previous public school he did go to the next grade level in math for two years but still complained that it was too easy and not very interesting. We ended up homeschooling him and his brothers and sister in the spring, and he did math with his 4th grade math loving but not highly gifted brother and found that to slow.

At his new school he was given the WJIII test and the KABC-2 test. The results arrived Friday, and my husband and I have a meeting with the school next week to discuss.

I need help knowing exactly what to ask for, and advice on dealing with resistance from the classroom teacher. My son's class is a 3-4 class as is the class next door. The third graders from the class next door come in for math and the 4th graders switch out, but Ds' teacher has not let him move with the 4th graders even though he has already completed the same 3rd grade curriculum. In our so-far limited e-mailed conversations about this she has suggested that DS needs to explain his work better, needs to be neater and needs to follow her direction more closely .

His scores on the WJ III range from 124 (by far the lowest) in writing to 154 in math reasoning
His scores range from 96 to 99.9 on the KABC-2


I know a little about what this all means form the grade level provided on the form and the brief narratives. We've known DS was capable well above his grade level, and the tests show this. Now it seems asking for him to be moved the 4th grade for math seems a bit silly, and that we really should be asking for an accelerated math program, etc.

Despite the results, DS has a lot to learn in writing and spelling and actually doesn't enjoy writing at all. I think in terms of that kind of work this classroom is good for him, and his teacher is offering him reasonably challenging work.

Socially and emotionally DS is a pretty happy and stable guy who suffers from occasional bouts of frustration. He�s even tempered, funny, friendly, a little shy, likable and a decent athlete.

If anyone has been kind and patient enough to read this far, can you advise? Most specifically I need advice about how to best advocate for my child. Any other general advice would be appreciated.


Here's more detail about the school relations from another of my posts:

The classroom teacher is a bit of an issue. I actually think she is a talented teacher in many respects. However, she has resisted hearing me on this issue.

At our local public school, where DS attended first and second grades I had a great relationship with the teachers and principal. I volunteered in the school weekly, advocated on general (not gifted)school funding vocally and visibly (attending budget meetings with a newborn many consecutive Tuesday nights, writing letters to the editor etc.), and was (in the end too) reasonable in my demands on my sons behalf. They worked with me, but funding was non-existent and consistency was an issue. Still, he was moved up a grade for math, and once a week the principal's best buddy from her teaching days came in a played math games and did puzzles with him.

Still, DS was struggling with the boredom in school. He didn't have behavioral issues; in fact he's very sunny and amenable. However, every day after school he'd gripe. And the school day is long so after it he'd just want to play legos or go to swim practice, etc.

So we homeschooled. And then we got in off the waitlist for the charter. The director sold us the school would challenge and engage him and that it would be the perfect medium between school and homeschooling.

Enter the classroom teacher. I sent her an e-mail the before school started outlining DS' background. I wrote about his personality, friendliness and general good nature, and his obstinacy. I also wrote about his lack of interest in writing, but his passion for reading anything from cereal boxes to the Illiad. And I wrote about his love for math, and that he had comleted 3rd grade math in a classroom setting, and that he had homeschoolded a good bit of fourth grade math when we homeschooled.

During our first (and only) conference two weeks into the year, Ms. M told us she was placing DS into the middle third grade reading group because she had noticed he was reading Geranimo Stilton and Diary of a Wimpy Kid. I tried to explain that he loves to read all kinds of things�he�s read Diary a dozen times maybe. And why not read Geranimo Stilton, but in the same two weeks he�d also read unabridged Robin Hood, Avi�s Poppy and Rye Series and (he reads a book every day or two plus picture books, comics, newspapers and so on).

I saw the veil drop over her face. Her lips pursed, she closed her folder and told me that she�s check in with him in the weeks to come. That was it, save for a little bit of small talk. We didn�t get to math. She stood up, said she was late picking up her daughter, and I followed her out to the parking lot trying to recover the meeting.

A few weeks later DS told me he was still with the third graders for math. Ms. M and I exchanged a few e-mails but the upshot is that she thought he needed to focus on accuracy, neatness and explaining his work. And that she was perfectly capable of differentiating for him.

This is all very weird or me. Until now, I�ve seen teachers (even the somewhat prickly one DS had for second grades) as partners. I have a pretty good bank of goodwill at the old school, but also felt they really weren�t going to be able to do much beyond stop gap, and that each year we�d have to reinvent a program. I had high hopes for the charter.

However, now that we have the test results I�m hoping that we can all revisit the issue with fresh eyes. I won�t, however, be asking for 4th grade math. That won�t really address his needs anyway. Or at least that is what I am thinking.

Any insight would be so very much appreciated. I can�t really talk about this with friends�I know talking about my issues with DS can come across as bragging, and that no one (except on other mom with a gifted teen daughter) really can advise anyway.

That�s why I�m hoping for some advice here. The school did the testing so the tester is not an outsider advocating for my child, as kind as she is.

All of you have been through similar, I�m sure. So thanks again or reading, and or any advice.

Hi again. Does anyone want to take a stab at this? I know my post is obscenely long. My meeting is in the AM and so I was hoping for insight from people who have been through similar.

Thanks in advance!

There are two steps to this process:

1. Become clear in your own mind about what your son's needs are.

2. Which needs can the school address? How?

Once you know that, people will be better able to help you formulate a plan for advocacy.

Cathy,

Thanks for that!
Here's what's important:

DS needs a math curriculum and instruction from a real person that will teach, challenge and engage him both at his current level (somewhere around 6th to 10th grade) and at the rate he is able to learn. That�s it really. I think he�d be happy to continue along in the rest of the third grade program if he had math that he loved.

What can the school do? We are about to find out. We are in a zero funding/no mandate for gifted kids state so much will depend on what the school is willing to do. The school is just about on the state university campus so I can�t help thinking we should be able to tap that resource.

Isn�t that a little easier to read?

I'm not sure I can be helpful, but I did want to chime in. My DS(almost 7) was grade skipped and then further subject accelerated in math. It's a combination that seems to have worked out well, although he's not as advanced as your DS. The subject acceleration just happened so he's at the top-middle of his class for math, but I fully expect him to be at the top of his class in math by the end of the year since he has a good head for concepts. Like you, I think, we don't want to have him skip a grade again since he seems to fit in socially really well with his main class, but we do think it's very important that he's learning something while he's a school 7 hours a day! It's always a work in progress, both with math and with all the other subjects he's way ahead in and for which he is not accelerated. But, for us and for many of us here, it's sometimes about least-worst fit and the best fit we can get for now. The thing we're working on now is getting them to trust that he's ready to work with more advanced concepts rather than their current focus on math fact speed tests.

Are you in a position to maybe arrange for a math major at your nearby university to meet with your son once or twice a week? It may have to be at your expense and after-hours, but it might at least be interesting to him and allow him to explore things more advanced and in a more conceptual way. It might be a long-shot, but perhaps the school would allow him to work on assigments that the university mentor gives him during math time at school, particularly if they have a chance to see his work (he could maybe "turn it in" to them after he's reviewed it with the mentor). I've heard of that working in some circumstances for very advanced kiddos (like your son seems to be).

I wish I could be more helpful.

Okay, so breaking this down, you would like:

1. math instruction (as opposed to enrichment)
2. from a real person
3. at a challenging level
4. at your son's pace.

Before the meeting, think about which of these items you are willing to compromise on, and which are most important.

Think of alternatives that you and your son would be willing to try if the ideal is not available. Could he use Aleks or EPGY if the "real person" option is not available? Could he be subject accelerated even though the pace might be slow? Could you do afterschool math instruction at home and allow him to do self-paced enrichment projects at school? Could he get pull-out individual instruction once/wk (but not every day)? Could he work with a mentor from the university campus?

Hi - Good luck on your meeting tomorrow. Others have given great advice, and I don't have much to add, except to comment that the excuse for keeping your DS from moving out of 3rd grade math sounds pretty flimsy and those reasons could be caused by the fact that he's being given inappropriate work. If he's already done the 3rd grade stuff 2 years ago, he's not going to be too enthused to show his work, be neat, or follow directions, I would imagine.

I would second the exploration of online math programs like EPGY or Aleks, if a real person teacher is unavailable. Those programs work at a student's individual level, and so are sometimes a great alternative.

Keep your cool in the meeting no matter what happens. Stay professional and focused. You mentioned that the director of the school implied that your sons needs would be met at the school. If you are not satisfied with the meeting with the teacher, I would go see the director (without the teacher if I could). Eventually you may end up with the teacher and the director together. I also agree with those that say an online math program, plus maybe some tutoring from a college student might be a good option.

If there is a school psychologist or counselor (who might be experienced in looking at results of your tests), it might help to bring them into the discussion as well. Remember that teachers (and directors) often have no more training than we do to interpret the results of these tests.

Good Luck!!!!

How did it go???