Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy New here. Results in for DS' test. Now what?

Hi,

My son is 8, in third grade in a charter school he's attending for the first time this year. At his previous public school he did go to the next grade level in math for two years but still complained that it was too easy and not very interesting. We ended up homeschooling him and his brothers and sister in the spring, and he did math with his 4th grade math loving but not highly gifted brother and found that to slow.

At his new school he was given the WJIII test and the KABC-2 test. The results arrived today, and my husband and I have a meeting with the school next week to discuss.

I need help knowing exactly what to ask for, and advice on dealing with resistance from the classroom teacher. My son's class is a 3-4 class as is the class next door. The third graders from the class next door come in for math and the 4th graders switch out, but Ds' teacher has not let him move with the 4th graders even though he has already completed the same 3rd grade curriculum. In our so-far limited e-mailed conversations about this she has suggested that DS needs to explain his work better, needs to be neater and needs to follow her direction more closely .

His scores on the WJ III
Broad Reading: 135
Broad Math: 150
Basic reading: 128
Reading Comp: 137
Math Calc: 145
Math reasoning: 154
Basic Writing: 124
Academic Skills: 136
Academic Apps: 139
Academic Knowledge: 140

His scores range from 96 to 99.9 on the KABC-2


I know a little about what this all means form the grade level provided on the form and the brief narratives. We've known DS was capable well above his grade level, and the tests show this. Now it seems asking for him to be moved the 4th grade for math seems a bit silly, and that we really should be asking for an accelerated math program, etc.

Despite the results, DS has a lot to learn in writing and spelling and actually doesn't enjoy writing at all. I think in terms of that kind of work this classroom is good for him, and his teacher is offering him reasonably challenging work.

Socially and emotionally DS is a pretty happy and stable guy who suffers from occasional bouts of frustration. He�s even tempered, funny, friendly, a little shy, likable and a decent athlete.

If anyone has been kind and patient enough to read this far, can you advise? Most specifically I need advice about how to best advocate for my child. Any other general advice would be appreciated.


Thank you.

In the charter school he's at, how high to the grades go? Is there a middle school nearby? Can you homeschool Math and let him go to the library during Math at school? Is older brother at the same school? Would it be an issue for younger brother to be in the same or higher grade for math than big brother?

Best Wishes,
Grinity

The school goes to 8th grade. The town's middle school is 15 minutes from the charter. The charter is just about on the state university's campus but (amazingly) the school does not take advantage of this. In general and FYI was are in state that provides no funding for gifted students. The town tracks in high school but that's all kids get beyond regular classroom differentiation.

My older son sometimes seems to get a kick out of his brother's math skills but I think they bug him too. Difficult to tell how he would react to little brother jumping to his level or byond. Very complicated little problem here, as in most families.

Hi Suzie

Flexability may be the key, see if they will allow him to test out of 4th and move to 5th. Also look at EPGY online, or another online alternative. It has taken some time to find a fit for our DS8, and we may still not be thier.We had to advocate past the schools to the district and then to the district superintendent. He is grade skipped to 4th and attends the MS for 6th grade math. This took some time and effort on our part. We have had to advocate each year, and make adjustments. To keep math interesting we supplament with the Math Olmypiad, which I now run 1 day a week after school. The problems are dificult, yet fun.

In regards to the math in 6th, its not much more then 5th but he now has some students that will do better then he does, or so we hope.

Lack of funding for gifted education would not have any impact on subject acceleration, and can in fact help you advocate for subject acceleration versus in-class differentiation. It is completely free and does not require any extra work from the teachers. Honestly, with math scores like your son's, a gifted pull-out would still not meet his math needs.

You said your DS was subject accelerated before you homeschooled him. Is there some reason that you're hesitant to ask for subject acceleration this go-round at the charter?

Perhaps, the school would feel better if they were able to test your DS on end-of-year tests of their own to help gage his mastery, in addition to considering the WJ scores (sometimes the school doesn't find as much usefulness in these tests as we do). If he were to score very well on the 3rd grade test then they could also give the 4th grade test, and so on until they found the correct instruction level. And, btw, it may not occur to the school to give more than the end-of-3rd grade test if he does well on that, so you may have to ask them to also give the end-of-4th grade test if you think it's warranted and you want to go that route.

Also, do your DS's KABC scores across the board tend to support his faster learning pace and depth? Perhaps the school will need these results explained to them in terms of your DS's abilities to make up any "holes" in his math education if they are concerned with that. Too, I forget if you mentioned where you had your testing done, but if it was not done by them they may be less familiar with the KABC, as opposed to the WISC or the SB or the DAS. I think I'm one of only two other people on this board whose kids were tested on the KABC and it's harder to find information about it (although everything I have heard about it is good).

Anyway, just throwing ideas out there. Glad you found us!

We will be having a meeting Monday about the results. The school physiologist, SPed director and classroom teacher will be there.

The classroom teacher is a bit of an issue. I actually think she is a talented teacher in many respects. However, she has resisted hearing me on this issue.

At our local public school, where DS attended first and second grades I had a great relationship with the teachers and principal. I volunteered in the school weekly, advocated on general (not gifted)school funding vocally and visibly (attending budget meetings with a newborn many consecutive Tuesday nights, writing letters to the editor etc.), and was (in the end too) reasonable in my demands on my sons behalf. They worked with me, but funding was non-existent and consistency was an issue. Still, he was moved up a grade for math, and once a week the principal's best buddy from her teaching days came in a played math games and did puzzles with him.

Still, DS was struggling with the boredom in school. He didn't have behavioral issues; in fact he's very sunny and amenable. However, every day after school he'd gripe. And the school day is long so after it he'd just want to play legos or go to swim practice, etc.

So we homeschooled. And then we got in off the waitlist for the charter. The director sold us the school would challenge and engage him and that it would be the perfect medium between school and homeschooling.

Enter the classroom teacher. I sent her an e-mail the before school started outlining DS' background. I wrote about his personality, friendliness and general good nature, and his obstinacy. I also wrote about his lack of interest in writing, but his passion for reading anything from cereal boxes to the Illiad. And I wrote about his love for math, and that he had comleted 3rd grade math in a classroom setting, and that he had homeschoolded a good bit of fourth grade math when we homeschooled.

During our first (and only) conference two weeks into the year, Ms. M told us she was placing DS into the middle third grade reading group because she had noticed he was reading Geranimo Stilton and Diary of a Wimpy Kid. I tried to explain that he loves to read all kinds of things�he�s read Diary a dozen times maybe. And why not read Geranimo Stilton, but in the same two weeks he�d also read unabridged Robin Hood, Avi�s Poppy and Rye Series and (he reads a book every day or two plus picture books, comics, newspapers and so on).

I saw the veil drop over her face. Her lips pursed, she closed her folder and told me that she�s check in with him in the weeks to come. That was it, save for a little bit of small talk. We didn�t get to math. She stood up, said she was late picking up her daughter, and I followed her out to the parking lot trying to recover the meeting.

A few weeks later DS told me he was still with the third graders for math. Ms. M and I exchanged a few e-mails but the upshot is that she thought he needed to focus on accuracy, neatness and explaining his work. And that she was perfectly capable of differentiating for him.

This is all very weird or me. Until now, I�ve seen teachers (even the somewhat prickly one DS had for second grades) as partners. I have a pretty good bank of goodwill at the old school, but also felt they really weren�t going to be able to do much beyond stop gap, and that each year we�d have to reinvent a program. I had high hopes for the charter.

However, now that we have the test results I�m hoping that we can all revisit the issue with fresh eyes. I won�t, however, be asking for 4th grade math. That won�t really address his needs anyway. Or at least that is what I am thinking.

Any insight would be so very much appreciated. I can�t really talk about this with friends�I know talking about my issues with DS can come across as bragging, and that no one (except on other mom with a gifted teen daughter) really can advise anyway.

That�s why I�m hoping for some advice here. The school did the testing so the tester is not an outsider advocating for my child, as kind as she is.

All of you have been through similar, I�m sure. So thanks again or reading, and or any advice.

It's great that the school goes all the way up until 8th grade, that gives you some wiggle room. Sign up for a placement test on ALEKS.com say at a 6th grade level and see how he does. Then you know what to ask for in Math.

Did the teacher move him up in reading? It's possible the tight face was because she felt 'tricked' or 'set up' by your son, and then wanted to correct the error ASAP.

Some families send the kids to different schools. Some families are able to really provide the leadership of 'we are all on the same team and cheer each other on' it sort of depends on the circumstances.

When the teacher whines about accuracy, just smile, nod and then say that when you observed him doing Aleks at home, his accuracy improved as the challenge level increased. Say that many advanced kids are like that and that are proposing the higher level work because you want your child to have the same chance to develop work ethic as everyone else.

What seems to work well is to propose a 6 week trial of the subject acceleration and map out objective criteria for if it is or isn't working in advance.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Great advice. I feel like printing it out and taping it to my palm. These kinds of meetings can be very stressful, and I respond to stress by talking fast and getting my Irish up. It has proven not all that effective in other contexts I assure you

How likely is it that these results will cause the teacher to take a whole new look at things? Are results like this unusual enough that it will shock them into resetting their mindsets. As I've said, we are new to the school, so they don't really know ds or us so maybe the will reasses their assumptions. Here's hoping. Thank you very much for responding.

PS--I do think that perhaps the the teacher's reaction in the first meeting had to do with her feeling caught out a little. From what I know of her, she really prides herself on her reputation as a fantastic though hard-nosed teacher. Who can really expect a teacher to assess a kid on a parents (perhaps inflates) description on dear junior's abilities and a few weeks of school? Anyway, here goes....

I just wanted to throw out there that now that you're having a meeting with the principal -- i.e., you've moved up the chain of command -- I think you should focus on speaking to the principal in your meeting (even though the teacher will be there). Yes, it is important for the teacher to be on board since she has the direct connection to your DS, but a good principal should make a decision and then make sure his/her teachers follow through. I know that each time we've made a change to our children's curricula, sometimes with teacher skepticism, the principal has advised us to come first to him with any and all concerns or questions so that he can approach the teacher from a professional perspecitve. I'm thinking that you should particularly be addressing the principal since it was he/she who promised you in advance that they would address his specific needs.

How did your meeting go? If the school psychologist was present, hopefully that person would have explained the scores & what they mean for your son's learning. Was the teacher more receptive?

No news here. Our appointment was postponed. We had school delays of a couple of hours Monday (first snow of the yer--no one saw it coming) and so that put the kabosh on the meeting. Rescheduling. Gives me time to finish some of the reading suggested here. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks Suzie,
It seems like waiting is a huge part of the process. Good luck!
Grinity