Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Non-competetive kid- would you push?

Hi- just looking for some opinions on my DD10 (5th grade, middle school.)

I can personally relate to your daughter. I am STILL like that, here is an example: I did this great life saving procedure on a dog and the person wanted to do a TV spot with me and the dog. I am very shy and said no. Well, my boss went and did the TV spot and although he didn't say he did the surgery, all our clients assumed he did and kept complimenting HIM on what a great job he did, blah, blah, blah. I was so mad/sad/jealous, but there was nothing I could do because I refused to do the spot.

My point of this story is that I don't know if you can change your daughter. Shy, non-competitive people are what we are. What is so funny, is that my son is not at ALL shy. I am so thrilled that he is the type of person who would jump at the chance to be on TV or do a spelling bee. If he were shy like me, I would encourage him to be more outgoing, because I think it has hampered me (like in the example story), but I don't know how effective it would be. Nan

I think it is a chance for a couple lessons that might make a difference in the future. The first is a lesson in consequences, which she has now learned to her dismay. I wouldn't bring it up now, because she obviously is hurting right now, but the next time there is a similar situation, you might want to remind her of this event, and suggest that she might want to consider it as she makes her decision.

The second thing would be to talk to her about her fears and shyness and why she would not take the opportunity that was offered. I think drilling into that a little bit over the next few months might be helpful to her and maybe give her some insight into her choices. I know that I often didn't take these sorts of opportunities because I was afraid of failing, classic gifted stuff, and if that is what is going on it would be great to walk her through some of what is going on in her brain, or find a counselor/mentor who might also do this. I just think about a number of occasions where I didn't step up to the challenge because no one told me I could do it and do it well, and ended up regretting that decision. I know that started around the time I was 10 or so, and I really wish someone had helped me work through it.

Cat

I don't think that push is the exact goal. I think your daughter will appreciate if you talk about every choice has it's good and bad, and that people in your family tend to mourn both the loss of the good and the experience of the bad, and that this is probably ture for her, so she might start to get used to it.

For example: Sign up for the spelling bee has potential Plus: feeling great about going to the bee, the recognition, etc. Minus: Maybe feeling exposed, being teased, missing an easy word.

Not signing up for the bee also has potential Plus: fit in better, avoid the spotlight, and Minus: Going looks like fun.

The best is if you can get her making her own Plus and Minus list of both sides of this sort of thing, that way she can really celebrate and really mourn, and maybe learn for the future (and maybe not!)

One of the first words I taught DS was 'Ambivelent' - so cute to hear coming out of a 3 year olds mouth. The deal with us is that we feel stuff even if we would make the same choice all over again.
Take a look at the book 'I can problem solve for teens' and see if your DD isn't already too advanced for it.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I have a kid kind of like this. He actually has no problem with public speaking and is anything but shy. He just has no interest in comparing himself with anyone else. I've noticed it drives some other boys his age nuts that's he's very ahead academically but won't banter about it. He does non-competitive athletics even.

I would let it go. I think she probably learned quite a bit from this experience. It might help to talk to her teacher about it and ask that she or he might encourage her into some opportunites. My son has a piano teacher that regularly gets him excited about auditions and contests. Not as a competition with other people so much, but as a way to push himself to a deadline and/or goal. Which has been a very useful experience. I think there is a difference between finding your "voice" and confidence, and being a really competitive person.

Good luck!

Perhaps it is in addition to being shy perfectionism/fear of failure/imposter syndrome kind of thing going on. I personally wish that my mom had pushed more than what she did. But hopefully the natural consequence made an impression!

Just read the other replies--Catalana's 2nd paragraph says it better than I can.

This discussion reminded me of sitting in my advisor's office at the beginning of college. As he was looking at test scores and the credits I came in with, he suggested that I should consider the honors program. My immediate reaction was that I wasn't actually qualified for it, I certainly wouldn't measure up to the other kids in the program, it would be too hard. So I didn't apply. In retrospect (and esp. recently as I learn more about giftedness for my dds) I was perfectly well-qualified and it would have been a better fit. I had spent years pretending I wasn't weird and dorky (but that is another thread ;))and being allowed to quit when I couldn't do something perfectly and it did not serve me well.

I do think as referenced above that learning to play an instrument has been very helpful for my dd9 with perfectionism. Good luck!

This is so timely for me. I am similar to your daughter. I perceive myself as being competitive with myself instead of others. A week ago, I had the chance to audition for a solo in a Christmas program that I am involved in. I "chickened out" & was upset with myself for the evening. What I eventually realized was that I was not ready for the experience if I wasn't even comfortable auditioning.

Your daughter simply may have felt too overwhelmed by the unknown--wondering what might happen if she did go to the bee. Of course, when she found out there was fun involved she understandably focused on that, forgetting her fear of public speaking for the moment.

I would use it as a teachable moment & show that things that are scary can also be fun. You could even do something together that illustrates the point. Maybe read a book at the library during children's hour?

I'd like to add another perspective here. I'm also not competitive (except against myself). I've been thinking about this thread for a day or two, and have some ideas that may (or may not!) be relevant here.

As a kid, I never made it terribly far in the National Spelling Bee competition in my school, in spite of the fact that I spelling has always been very easy for me. Looking back on it, I've realized that part of the reason for this was because I really didn't get the idea of what the thing was all about. Spelling was easy for me, and at 12, I didn't see a need to spell words like syzygy or segue. So, why bother?

In some ways, not caring too much about winning (or, let's face it, even entering) can be a handicap because others will shine more brightly or can compete their way past me according to the norms of the workplace. For example, I'd do poorly in a typical academic research environment because I'm not the kind of person who cranks out two or three papers a year, and publications are a important in tenure decisions (academics out there: please don't think I'm disparaging people who write lots of papers. The research world needs productive people. But I think we need a counterbalance to this approach).

On the other hand, there are also enormous benefits to being non-competitive. I'm quite happy to work on my own and submit occasional papers that are the culmination of a lot of work. I set my own agenda and have found a way to do what I want by operating in a microstartup. It's been six years, and I'm finally starting to publish.

Thing is, people like me don't do well in academia because working on an idea for five to ten years before you can think about writing a paper is not viewed favorably by a tenure committee. Not to mention that this approach doesn't generate a lot of preliminary data for a grant application. So people like me tend to get part-time jobs that allow us to do research when we're not at work.

What I'm trying to say is that being non-competitive can be a strength, especially if you can find a niche and you're channeled by internal drive.

Okay, that was long. I hope these maunderings have helped someone see another perspective....

Val