Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional ADD girl, depression, anxiety

Greetings. I'm new to the forum. My 16 y.o. daughter was diagnosed with AD/HD - Inattentive type this past spring. Given her test results and progress so far, I'm wondering if we're on the right track or if there is some other disorder or disability we should be considering.

Daughter was an extremely independent and self-motivated learner through the 9th grade. She had a grade skip from 6th to 8th. Straight-A student. Very perfectionistic. Brother with history of AD/HD - Hyperactive type, gifted, and severe depression (doing well now in college).

In 10th grade, she developed depression and anxiety. She missed a lot of school but was able to make up the work and still got straight A's. The situation was still difficult enough that we decided to homeschool. In the 10th grade, she liked the homeschooling better, but continued to struggle with keeping up with a full academic schedule - actually did not keep up with a full schedule last year. Grades still A's and B's - except Algebra II. Very resistant and anxious about the material.

The depression and anxiety continued, so we had further psychological testing done last May with a psychologist. The Brown scale was highly suggestive for AD/HD. Myers-Briggs was INFJ. I was very surprised by WAIS-IV results: Verbal 143 (99.8 percentile), Perceptual 113 (81 percentile), Working Memory 80 (9 percentile), Processing Speed 92 (30 percentile). The discrepancy between highs and lows was a surprise given she had done so well academically in her early years.

She is currently taking Cymbalta for the depression/anxiety and Intuniv for the AD/HD. She tried a variety of stimulants, but they all caused worsening anxiety. She also takes a small dose of clonidine and Xanax at night for sleep.

She has up and down periods - more ups than downs lately - except during her menstrual cycle when she is down and very unmotivated for school work. She has regular counseling every two weeks or so. Homeschooling gives us some flexibility with her schedule when she is in a down period, but I'm concerned about helping her be more consistently productive for when she starts college next year.

Her favorite subjects all related to the language arts. She's a voracious reader. She despises math. We abandoned Algebra II and are doing a personal finance curriculum instead.

So...give that history and those results, does it seem like we are on the right track with the diagnoses. Is there anything else we should be thinking of or addressing?

Thanks much!

Hi INFJ,
So glad to hear that the 'up's are more than the 'downs' 25 days of the month. That is something to celebrate.

I can't think of anything you are missing - it seems like you've got it really well covered. It might be worth it to look at the various 'OverExcitabilities' and see which ones totally bug her out so you can manage the environment a bit and train her to self-manage a bit.

I wish you had earlier IQ scores to compare these to, just to get an idea if the Working Memory and Processing speed are being suppressed by the current depression and anxiety or she has always been just 'pokey slow' and 'don't multitask me' along with super unusually strong in Verbal.

I doesn't really suprise me could get through at the lower grades, particularly if she is going through lots of body changes with puberty strongly in 10th. Those changes really stress a kid. I'll give a try to unravel her Myers-Briggs based on what else you said, but I'm not expert, and welcome anyone to point out any errors I might make:

Ok, "J"s like to finsh and hand in their homework, which explains what you saw in the earlier years. She probably is still just as anxious to 'get it over with' but as the material gets to involve abstract thinking and shades of meaning, the "P"s have a natural advantage in that they are comfortable with the ambiguity of keeping the decision making process open. As she learns to deal with her anxiety, then the "J" will come back to helping her get the assignments handed in.

Since she is a "J" then her "F" is a stronger part of her make up than her "N" (Does that seem right?) however, since she is an "I" she will show the world her "N" and keep her "F" to herself. That might possibly show up as getting good grades to please the teacher when she was younger ("F") and not being at all moved emotionally by logical arguments ("F" instead of "T") This might be a bit of a jolt in the high school ages if the teachers are expecting the students to operate on a rather simplistic logical basis. "F"s might do ok with nuanced use of logic, but simplistic logic just isn't going to be convincing.

The world sees her "N" - big picture thinking, lack of sequential, detail orriented thinking ("N" rather than "S") which can be why the ADD innatentive fits. If a person sees the big picture, and doesn't tend to 'see' details,(Low working memeory) then they can space out and miss tons of school interactions but still be able to give the impression that they get the big picture ("N") essence of what the teacher is teaching. So an "N" kid can get into the habit at school of focusing in for a moment, getting the general idea, and then zoning back out without anyone realizing what they are doing. Or another way to look at it is that a "N" kid can have ADD inattentive and still do very well in school until the demands overtake her strenths.

But as a parent, remeber the hidden "F" is going to be her strongest motivator - If you can appeal to her sense of wanting the world to be 'fair to everyone' and link your agenda to her deepest self, you'll be more useful. What does she want to be when she grows up? Does she have a sense of her future role in the world? Maybe learning Math would be more palatable if she pictures herself as 'doing research to help other Math Haters who are forced to learn math to know the best way to learn it and get everyone off their backs?' I use that trick on myself sometimes when I am hitting road bumps on the learning road, and wishing it would just 'come easily and effortlessly' like other stuff does.

It makes sense that she is a voratious reader given her Verbal IQ scores. I guess my question is 'why start college next year' and in what sense starting college makes sense.

Based on what I'm hearing, I would suggest starting college by auditing college classes, particularly in areas of her strength and interst, and granting her High School credit on her homeschool transcript. She can continue Math at the high school level. I would look for a way she can be of service to others through using her gifts, say leading a book group for bright middle schoolers through the library or church. Self-care needs to be on the curriculum for every teen, I think, including sleep hygiene, healthy eating, regular excersize, outdoor time, the arts, and lately I would include deep breathing sessions, both to master anxiety and for the CO2 balancing benifits.

If she is willing to be led by you, then lead on. If she is channeling all of her will into fighting with the adults, that's a whole different story,and in a way a healthy sign, right? Either way, the self-care you take of yourself is a very powerful example and influence.

Please let us know how things go, ok?
Love and More Love,
Grinity

Hi Grinity,

Thanks much for the encouragement and all the great suggestions and insights! The Meyers-Briggs was particularly interesting and has been quite helpful, especially since I have the same personality type. We've been able to talk about what our strengths and challenges are as INFJs.

You said: "Since she is a "J" then her "F" is a stronger part of her make up than her "N" (Does that seem right?) however, since she is an "I" she will show the world her "N" and keep her "F" to herself." This is very true. She keeps her feeling quite bottled up, which is not healthy.

DD had a WPPSI-R a Stanford-Binet L-M done when she was 5. This was done by a different psychologist when we lived in another state. It was part of a larger evaluation that also included the Woodcock-Johnson. I don't know if any of these can be used to compare with her current WAIS-IV, but I will give you the info.

WPPSI-R showed Performance 118, Verbal 135, and Full Scale 132. I do have the subtest results for that test if any in particular are useful.

Stanford-Binet L-M score was 137. The tester noted "...excelled in verbal abstract reasoning and verbal fluency at the 10 year level. Vocabulary was at the 8 year level...spacial reasoning and visual memory were relatively weaker. In addition [DD] missed some verbal absurdities items, in which she was asked to explain why a given statement was foolish or silly, because she said, 'this never happens to us' or 'it doesn't happen in real life.'...Because of this, we may have an underestimate of her abilities on this test."

Woodcock-Johnson-Revised showed everything in the 97th to 99th percentile.

It's interesting that you bring up the sense of fairness or justice. This is a BIG deal for her, and she has been driven to do something about it, although she often feels frustrated because she sometimes feels there is little she can do. Injustice makes her very sad.

She has been active in our church with a local ministry for the homeless, and she has been to Brazil twice on mission trips (without her parents!). She's very vocal about Fair Trade issues and is volunteering with a fair trade store in our church. She is strongly considering social work as a career and would like to do some job shadowing next semester.

Self-care is something her counselor has been focusing on, and we are trying to put those into place at home.

For college, for a while she had been considering staying home a year and attending the local community college. She's lately moving away from that and thinking she would rather start at a 4-year college. Her college of choice is very small and intimate and meets her needs for a sense of religious community. I think she is feeling rather isolated now with the homeschooling, and the 4-year college would probably give her a greater sense of community and support than the community college.

I sure appreciate you comments!

If you have a 4 year college with a great sense of community, that is small and intimate and fits with your religious views, AND provides supervision to the level commonly associated with boarding schools rather than non-religious affiliated Libral Arts Colleges....then I think that particular college might make tremendous sense. Another avenue to explore is any religious associated boardign schools that might have classes that would be a good fit. The problem with 'life after age 14' is that grades 'count' in a way that can be problematic for kids with ADD, and a few 'extra' years of maturity can be very very helpful, as long as their needs are being met while you wait.

Best Wishes whatever you decide!!!
Grinity