Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Advice needed on socializing

Over where we are, pulling out of school to homeschool requires approval from the authorities. I am to make a formal application via the school, after discussion with the principal. Because approval is not guaranteed, I had decided to fall back on the fact that DS requires vision therapy, that it is a long drawn, intensive process that requires daily work at home and frequent out of country trips to his doctor. We would therefore need the flexibility of homeschooling to allow for this.

With all this mapped out and with supporting documents, I met with the Principal today. I was surprised by his support and generosity. Take 6 months off to deal with it, he said. We can review later if more time is needed. This school has a highly respected gifted program for grade 4-6; he will assign his Head of Department to provide a curriculum for DS7 upon his return. All this was with the support of his teacher who has been terrific this past year. He's brilliant, she said, but he has a social problem. He only talks to one friend and refuses to have anything to do with anyone else. She thinks they're friends because this boy hangs on every word my son says. He's interested in being the centre of attention, which is not healthy. He's also a master manipulator when he reports incidents to her. When caught massaging the truth, he does a very sorrowful, "I'm so sorry, I tend to exaggerate, but it's human nature" act. Unfortunately, I know she's right. She thinks homeschooling, because there is no daily enforced contact with other kids or authority figures, will only isolate him further and reinforce his attention seeking, since interaction will be 1-on-1. Further, she thinks he needs more discipline that I may not be providing, simply because he needs more than the average kid.

I trust her. I know she really means well for DS. The deal is sweet enough to be confusing and certainly good enough to at least try out, if not just for the interim 6mths. But I'm shaken by the prescription for his social persona. For sure homeschooling will provide him with the freedom he needs to pursue what he likes. We're already after-schooling, but he'll get the down time he wants to read or whatever. The teacher fears he will go deep rather than wide. I'm not against it.

But will he need daily social abrading (not sure how else to put it!) to "balance" him out? The homeschooling community here is really small but i will rely on enrichment classes (robotics etc) as a social avenue - no daily contact but weekly. What are the thoughts on this here? Hoping to seek the wisdom of others here who've btdt.

Here's the question - where does the gifted program draw their population? Is it the top 10%, 5%, 3%, 2%, .05%? A program can be highly respected and rightly so, and still be totally a bad fit for your kid.
I wish I had experience with the social question. But I can give advice anyway, for all that it's worth.
1) Dramatic is standard equipment for many gifted kids. Exaggerating isn't a high crime. Taking responsibility is the goal, but at age 7 I wouldn't expect mature behavior at every moment.
2) Some gifted kids do get 'addicted to energy' and are willing to accept negative energy instead of being ignored. See 'transforming the difficult child' for more on that topic. Is what the teacher is seeing your son being an 'energy addict' around his schoolmates? Sometimes I wonder if there was true friendship to be had from schoolmates then your son wouldn't have to go to such extreams to get a 'charge' out of interacting with them. But friendship is a developmental thing, and it takes years of growing to get to the next stage.
3) Kids need lots and lots of practice with social interactions. This doesn't mean you shouldn't homeschool. It means that getting him around 'true peers' who aren't as easily beguiled might be a good idea. Easier said than done, but if you have a goal, you can try to move towards it.

Do any of these ideas sound helpful?
Best Wishes,
Grinity

Thanks for bringing things into perspective, Grinity! The school deals with the top 1% for that age group. The programme is known to be rigourous but the homework load is intensive. The thought now makes me shiver because it's obvious DS doesn't plan on writing much. And as long as he has to keep pace with a class of children and not have his own time to mull or spurt, it will be tough.

I never thought of him as being addicted to the energy in the class. But you have a point here. He's definitely addicted to praise and attention from the teacher. Except attention comes in many ways.

Yes that's so true - the idea of social interactions whether or not within the school context should be my focus. He needs friends, yet he can't seem to find one to truly exchange ideas with. Unfortunately, it's a reality for him. I can only ensure that the opportunities abound.

Tks once again
(BTW, NHA has been working like a dream with my little one!!)

Great, so you know what the program is aiming for (Top 1% without any 2E, very verbal lots of written output)

Is this 1% a numberical 1% (District has 1000 students, 10 are in the program) or a 1% as in: we gave a test with national norms, and kids who scored over the 1% norm are in the program?

The next step is to look at your kid and guess what they might be: Sometime kids who are closer to top 0.1% do fine in homework heavy gifted programs because they do it all in school and have almost now homework, and the social interaction is great.

Other kids who are closer to the top 1.0% really hate those programs and find them to be 'more of the same.'

Sometimes the teachers in those programs think 'They are in the gifted program, so what else do they want' and other teachers see levels of giftedness even within the program and accomidate that.

I love that you are seeing yourself as an opportunity maker for the social interactions. At some point it's the spin of the wheel and that 'perfect friend' moves in next door. But do understand that it would be really unsual for a 'true friend of the heart' to be availible to a gifted 7 year old amoung age mates. Not to say that lovely and important good times can't be had on the playground with agemates, but finding that one true friend to share one's heart with might take some time.

It was a bittersweet moment when DS, around age 8, looked up at me after on of those long meandering deep conversations, and said: 'I'm so lucky to have you to have these talks with, I'd go nuts if I couldn't ever talk like this.' As they get older, there are much more opportunities, but for a little while, it is ok for Mom or Dad to provide a few of the functions of BFFs. Of course after I got done being touched at his expression of gratitude, I realized that I felt much the same, and that it was time for me to clean up my act and get out and find more peer gifted friends so that I would be able to be availible for, but not dependent on, my son. I had internalized the school's message that I 'didn't need anything special' to such a degree that I had forgotten to prioritize my own need for deep conversations. Opps!

So Blob,
Now I'm confused. Are you going to take the 6 months? Is the offer of gifted-teacher supervision start right now, or after the 6 months? Awesome that they are offering something!

Smiles,
Grinity

Hi Grinity,

We will take 6mths off for intensive therapy. Thereafter, it will become clearer if he goes back to school or not. If he is happy with more meaningful friendships outside of school, probably not. More than 48 hours has gone by since the meeting with the school and my euphoria has died down. The Ministry had promised us so much and delivered virtually nothing. I take the school's word more seriously, but they are a school after all. How can teachers put up with his non-stop questioning when there are so many other kids around? Already his teacher, insightful as she is, has labelled this behaviour as attention seeking.

These are interesting questions you ask. Indeed, I am my son's soulmate and yes, vice versa too. Isn't it great for us? The gifted programme here - technically, it's the top 1%. But the screening is based on achievement 1st and IQ second, which would already throw out those with LDs that are severe enough to interfere with achievement. Maybe it's the limited number of gifted-programme parents I've met - most of their kids are compliant, task oriented souls who do tonnes of homework without complaint and go for all sorts of tuition classes after school to ensure that they have perfect grades, *faint*.

My biggest fear, as DH reminded me this morning, is if DS continues to not be able to put up with people who are not his equal and he ends up old and alone and solving math problems for fun. I want to remember what you said - for this not to happen, he needs interaction with "true peers". What's the likelihood of that happening at Grade 2 or Grade 4? We have many years ahead of us. One day, it WILL happen!

Eeep! I have the same fear. It is in my head constantly right now because last year after trick-or-treating, DS ran to the car to finish working on his journal instead of dumping his candy on the garage floor with the other kids. I'm hoping this year will be a candy dumping Halloween, but I don't think that much has changed.

Thinking of you in your decision making process, Nan

Just a thought...
Doing math problems alone and feeling satisfied and happy about it doesn't have to be a sad future. Some people love math. Some people are introverted. There is nothing inherently bad about being a person who gets joy in this way.

Of course you want your kid to be able to connect with people in ways that satisfy him. But, I would be open to the idea that while his way may be very different from what you would enjoy or from what you imagined that doesn't mean it is sad. In fact there are quite a lot of happy actuaries, mathematicians, etc. in the universe. There is every reason to believe that a person with these interests can find a happy and satisfying life. If anything I'm less worried about kids who have found joy through solitary intellectual pursuit because there are so many ways for that to work out in a happy adult life.

My suggestion for now is to seek out opportunities for engagement that are not just with kids his own age. Ideas: chess club, computer users club, getting to know elderly neighbors or friends who might serve as mentors, community service, game groups, etc.

Nan, it comes when they get more enjoyment out of issues and problems than people.

PTP, you have a great point. I saw DS go from being excited about school ("independance! pocket money!") at the start of the year to now this snide person who can't help smirking and making contemptuous comments about his classmates and teachers. But whatever happens, he'll have his books and activities to keep him happy. With homeschooling, we'll have the time and flexibility to pursue different friendships.

The fog is definitely clearing up in my brain!

I agree. This doesn't exactly sound like a recipie for creating an outgoing and people-loving kid, does it?

Check out this page to see if there are any gifted events happening within traveling distance. Even a yearly weekend event can keep hope alive for many kids: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/conferences.htm

Once he gets to age 12 I recommend CTY summer camps. My son estimates about 1/3 of the kids come from outside the US.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

It is wonderful there is even one child he speaks to in school! It's too bad that kid is a follower hanger-on type and not a real peer perhaps, but it's something. And your DS sounds like he has a good social relationship with you, that is great.

Nothing is going to "balance" your son out. Of course no one wants him to be lonely but that is not always something we can just fix. Not having good friends is not necessarily something that can be controlled by putting him around more and more kids who's favorite activity is chasing eachother around yelling (most 7 year old boys), if that's not his idea of fun.

Isolating him socially at home isn't ideal either but as he's been to school some and it's not working out, currently homeschooling may be the best option.

I have a very gifted brother who was beat up, left out, always socially not it in elementary school. He was not terribly happy but kept going because no one offered a different option, came home and cried, etc. From 10-14 he was sent to a gifted school over an hour from home, and liked that much better, still I don't think made many real friends. In public high school he never ever once called anyone on the phone from home that I'm aware of, though once every now and then another boy would show up to play cards or chess with him so he must have known some kids from school (though much of it was likely initiated by my other brother). By late high school there were a couple guys he hung out with, ate lunch with, studied with, I'm pretty sure he thought of them as friends but they weren't constant companions. Dating was just not even a thought in high school. He was odd, my mother nagged him constantly to wash and put on deodorant and he sometimes did.

It was really college where he met a bunch of guys he became good friends with, they appreciated his humor and he appreciated theirs. They did harmless geeky college prank things together. And a year or so later his wife met him, asked him out, initiated the first kiss, etc. He's very happily married, he's a computer geek, he's also a wonderful guy who's social and sweet and compassionate, he's just not really your average guy. He's just who he is and his family was nice to him and supportive and were his friends until he found others. He basically had to wait until his age-mates grew up before he could really have something to talk about with them. Or maybe he just didn't meet the right kid earlier, I don't know, college certainly concentrated the geeky smart guys for him.

Teachers all want to have an effect and yes perhaps your son's current social attitude is self centered. But more disclipline isn't necessarily going to change him. Perhaps he's just who he is and will find friends when they come along, it may not be for years even if you do go to robotics classes or whatnot. If he is empathetic and socially capable with you then he can be towards others and will likely find good friends eventually.

If he's sometimes manipulative and demands to be the center of attention with you on the other hand (which my brother did not), then you can probably work on that. You may already do it but can demand he respect your ideas and interests in a fair way (such as you getting to choose what game you play half the time, choose the color of gamepiece to be half the time, the restaurant, who gets to talk, etc), act hurt if he says or does anything hurtful or tries to manipulate you. Ie you can act like a respectful but independent minded (non-indulgent-parent) human would and make sure your friendship with him is model of a real true friendship, so that later he is truly able to have one with another person.

Polly