Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Moral support! And questions about test selection

Hi all --

I've been lurking here for a while, and we are now in the process of having DS5 tested... He just started his testing yesterday, and I feel ridiculous for being a nervous wreck. Well, not a wreck, but more nervous than I think I should be.

I know that he is a bright kid, and particularly strong at math, but I just don't know where he'll end up with his testing. I come from a family of highly gifted kids (my three siblings and I all tested 170+ on the old-fashioned Stanford-Binet L/M in the early 70s, and my two nieces are highly gifted as well). I don't want to impose my expectations on my son, and I see my competitive nature coming out when comparing him to my personal history and his cousins (my sister's kids).

I doubt that he's as bright as many of the kids on here, and would guess that he is unlikely to qualify for the DYS program (though it would be very nice).

Was anybody else nervous going through the testing and waiting process (he still has two more testing sessions, then we'll get our parent feedback)? Am I just a crazy type A hyper mom? I don't want to be, but I can't help but feeling like I am. I guess I want the scores to validate how great *I* think he is to his school/teachers/etc...

Sigh.

As to the test selection, the G/T folks at Hopkins recommended KeyMath3 for him (rather than WJ), but the psychologist here who is testing him doesn't seem to have a lot of experience with it. He is doing the Stanford Binet V, the Woodcock-Johnson, and a VMI test (? not sure which one). There are so many posts about SBV vs others for general FSIQ... Any opinions? Should I worry about whether he is being tested appropriately?

Susan

My feeling after reading the posts of most people here is that many are a nervous wreck either during the testing, or while waiting for results. This is natural... higher IQ scores are better, there are prizes to be won (acceleration and other schooling goodies if not a DYS entry), and many of us have been taught that our intelligence is our best and defining quality (which of course it is ).

I hope you can keep from worrying. IQ scores are just one predictor of academic success, and your little one likely has many useful skills and attributes that aren't tested well by today's tests. Also, the earlier the child, the more variable the results may be from day to day. There's plenty of wiggle room in there for rationalizing away poor results.

The KeyMath is a very good test, better than the WJ math tests for giving a comprehensive look at how a kid approaches different aspects of math (when I was doing the norms collection, I was impressed at how much I could learn about a kid even with no ability to generate scores). Curriculum coverage doesn't make it very far into high school, but it's great for a 5yo. That said, when I test for DITD, I typically just use the WJ Broad Achievement (reading writing math) because it answers the question pretty efficiently, gives RPI scores (which I invert to give an estimate of "how impossible would it be for a typical kid this age to keep up with curriculum this kid finds challenging?"), and is conormed with the SB-5. I tend to use the KeyMath either for specific diagnostics regarding problems in math, or to document a kid whose particular talent is in math. My guess is that most psychologists have never seen or heard of the KeyMath -- most don't get much training in educational testing.

I like the SB-5, although it's not without its warts. Haven't yet found a test that doesn't have warts, although I'm warming up to the DAS-2 and it will probably eventually be my favorite -- the things I don't like about it thus far are largely related to usability (the amount of different stuff I have to juggle and remember and do on the fly) rather than to psychometric properties. WISC mainly just has market dominance.

The VMI is almost undoubtedly the Beery-Buktenica Developmental Test of Visual-Motor Integration. That tends to be used when there are concerns about handwriting -- I've never seen it used to document a strength. The main VMI (green booklet) is all most testers give. I typically also take the few extra minutes to give the visual perception (blue booklet) and motor control (brown booklet), because it gives a good differential on why the kid might be having trouble.

Remember that on modern IQ tests, you will not see the kind of stratospheric scores you heard about from your own childhood. They use a different metric -- the scores look similar but mean very different things from what they used to (it's like the difference between weight and body mass index -- they're both numbers that refer to how chubby you are, but they can't be compared to each other). Basically, a 145 is *awesome*, and a 160 is almost unheard of (yes, you can sometimes see scores like that when you test young GT kids on achievement tests, although the normative update from the WJ has reduced some of what really are statistical artifacts). 96% of kids who break 130 will not break 145, and that's all okay.

Relax. It's hard to wait, but regardless of the data, he's still your kid and you still love him. If the tester does a good job, you'll learn more about him regardless of whether he qualifies for DYS.

Welcome to the board!

Aimee --

Thank you SO much for the information about KeyMath vs WJ. It sounds like the WJ is probably appropriate for right now, and perhaps we might want to use the KeyMath in the future if we are needing to help design a specific curriculum. You are right, I don't think he has used the KeyMath much. As far as I know, there are not really any psychologists here in Orlando (at least that I have come across) who *really* specialize in gifted testing.

I am definitely aware of the difference between the old style ratio IQs and the newer normative based IQ scores. I am mostly hoping that he will be well into the gifted range (in our region, you need to be above 130). He doesn't score very well on the typical "checklist" for gifted kids (just based on his personality, which is very passive and quiet), which is also considered *in addition* to the IQ testing. That is, if he is borderline gifted by IQ testing, they may still not accept him for gifted programming because they may deem his scores on the checklist inadequate. I think if he scores high enough on the IQ testing that they will be less likely to focus on the checklist.

Again, thanks so much for your thorough comments.

Susan

I don't understand this one. Most gifted kids are introverts so the "quiet" part fits, not sure about the passive. What kind of things do they have on their list?

There are a lot of components on the checklist related to "leadership" [not my child!], "sought out by peers", "advanced sense of humor", and other things that don't really relate to my child (perfectionism, boredom with easy work, etc). He is extremely bright, but has weak fine motor skills, and is definitely not a squeaky wheel. He is typically pretty content to sit and do a worksheet that is far too easy for him.

I don't really know how they judge the importance of the checklist vs. the abilities demonstrated by the student. His abilities are quieter, and more under the surface than, say, my daughter (DD4). Everybody around her is much more aware of how advanced she is, because she is a much more social and outgoing kid.

thats interesting, my twin 6 yr old girls are quite different in personalities but the social, outgoing, bubbly girl often comes across as a smart arse who doesnt really fully understand what she is saying/joking about (yet she does) whereas my quiet, perfectionist, lack of leadership girl is the one the teachers had quickly assumed was bright. Turns out they have equivocal IQ's.

Can you explain what the "RPI" score is on the WJIII results? I got them back, but I don't really understand that score. [I included the Standard Scores in another post of mine.]