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Hi,

This is my first post. I'm in a situation where I feel very alone, and I'm trying to figure out what to do.

I have one of those early readers who self-taught around 3, and really picked up steam by 4 along with an early and large vocabulary. So, I assumed. I have a bright kid.

In Kindergarten (he is the age youngest boy in the class), he was put in the highest reading group except it didn't feel like he was learning anything new. I complained. I was told he tested at the HIGHEST level they would assess in Kindy, but they were working with him on other things to keep him learning. It just wasn't stuff you could easily assess. I was frustrated, and I went to the reading specialist. I was told the same thing--he is learning. When I felt "unheard," I went the principal. Same thing...I got the "he is learning and challenged, don't worry about it."

Around spring of 09, I went and had him tested. He came back in the 99% in everything except one category where the test taker noted in his paperwork that he was complaining and didn't want to do the test because he said he felt "sick." In that one area on a subtest he was in the 50%. The tester felt this subtest was invalid. His overall iq ended up being (WISPI) 139 even with the uh-oh subtest.

Now, he is in 1st grade. He still hasn't been retested. I keep hearing next week, next week. I'm told he is fine, and I shouldn't worry about him being challenged. Then, I found out that the GT teacher pulls 10 kids out once a week for a special project, and my child wasn't chosen. (I did notice a few teachers kids when I saw them walking back from enrichment.)

I was so frustrated that I called a friend, and I started crying. Not to make this about me, but I suck as an advocate. I'm starting to doubt myself. Am I just one of "those" moms who thinks she has a bright kid, but doesn't. Do I really need to worry about it? I'm so confused.

In 1st grade, my kid is in a one-year above reading group and a one-year above math group. What gets me is that his reading group has lots of kids who learned to read in K. I guess this is is what teachers refer to as leveling out. Hold one kid back, teach the rest.

I'm thinking about hiring an advocate, but I can't seem to find one in my area who is for gifted.

I feel frustrated, defeated. I feel like I can't elicit change.

Then, I get the "guilt" of ...is this really that big of a problem? There are bigger problems in the world. Should this be such a source of frustration.

My son is starting to zone out in class, and his grades are starting to fall. The teacher said, "it is because the work is getting harder." But for him, I don't see that the work has gotten any harder. So now, advocacy is just going to get more difficult.

BTW, the school barely looked at his IQ and Achievement testing (showing 4 grades ahead in reading and 2 grades ahead in math). They basically discounted it all and said, "all our students are ahead because in our district we push."

Ugh, I feel so rotten. It is hard to feel frustrated with no power to change it.

My suggestion would be to start looking at your other school options. Can you homeschool? Are there any gifted schools Or Montessori around? Can you get the testing done again? If he qualifies for DYS there is lots of help there. Look for Gifted Parenting Groups too. Read as much as you can about gifted. Are there any gifted laws in your state? If you do something you will feel better.

This is hard. Hang in there. I struggled to get my son appropriate learning for 3 years at school. In the last year, after DYS counseler talk to the GT teacher, I realized this school is so far from understanding and will not meet his needs. Before this I kept thinking I have just not explained our situation well enough. I now drive my kids to a gifted school. My kids are happy again.

Good Luck to you.

I'm so sorry. Advocating can be so incredibly stressful (says the woman who has only had one teacher meeting) and it's so hard to do since there are so many variables.
Can your sons father help you out? Or maybe a well spoken friend? Can you write down all of the points you need to address and use notes during your meetings? Has the school seen his test results? Can you make them a binder with his results, his work, a sample of what he reads, etc?
Hang in there!

I've got a fourth grader in a new school and all I wanted was acceleration to fifth grade math - what is the big freaking deal? My son finshed the Harry Potter series before second grade and consistently scores in the 99th percentile in math. But it's like talking to rocks.

The culture at my son's school is strange. The moms are way over-involved in silly extras. Inm my son's class alone they are collecting for nine gifts this year - 3 each for the teacher and two special staff members. I don't mind a gifts for teachers/staff memebrs, but three each? Birthday gifts for grown, professional women? One of the volunteer opportunities is to bring a treat for the teacher every day for a week for teacher appreciation week. The class mothers have suggested that everyone should volunteer for at least two activities and yes, they are all during work hours and no, no fathers were included on the email list.

And this is at a school where the teachers can't even get it together to post the spelling words online - is it really that hard to connect the dots and realize the teachers need some help with stuff that will actually benefit the kids academically? Oh - and they lost a kindergartener. A child wandered off and they had to call the parents and say they couldn't find him. He was found eventually, but I didn't hear about it for a week because the method for alerting parents about emergencies is automated phone calls. Same as for an overdue library book.

I am also exhausted and the extra time my son has to spend deciphering what his homework is cutting into his reading time. He is a voracious independent reader of history and now he doesn't have time for it because he's busy doing worksheets that never get reviewed by a teacher.

Whew! That felt good!

I am trying to make a point that is relevant tp your situation - maybe it's hopeless and you should concentrate your energies on areas you can control. Keep your child supplied with high quality reading material. Have your son take up an instrument, or learn a language. And in the meantime, look for a different school.

I am sure others with far more experience will chime in with more positive suggestions, but I wanted to convey that I know where you are coming from and I know how frustrating it is.

Hate to admit it but I do not have the strength to continue to advocate. Nobody tells you how hard it is and how strong you have to be. I am satisfied CTY fills some academic void and hope emotionally things arent't so bad where I will be forced to intervene. Fingers crossed.

Glad you found this board and now you're not alone...you have us!
Have you written a formal letter to the principal yet? I liken it to dealing with the insurance company where you're just spinning your wheels until you give them something in writing. I would put specific requests in the letter: gifted pull-out, subject acceleration, etc. Here are some recommended readings to motivate you for the long haul:

Assertiveness and Effective Parent Advocacy
http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/advo.parent.sherrett.htm

What a Child Doesn't Learn:
http://www.gtamc.org/why-gifted-education-is-important

Quotes:
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/84137/Re_Daily_Quote.html#Post84137

So glad you are here! It does stink, let's say that up front The people on this board have been so super helpful so keep trying you will get there. If you are in a mandated state, you can go to your state board of education site and start reading up on gifted education. It's time consuming, confusing and draining AND every little bit you know helps your battle. I looked for an advocate too. None to be found so I've taken the last year and a half to research, ask questions and basically become my own.

I ran across a speech from a local businessman at a college of business gathering at our local university the other day. He was talking about the need for educated workers and how education at the beginning is the key.

He said, "Speak out! We are the people we have been waiting for!"

I don't know if he was quoting someone else or not, but that statement just stuck with me.

Repeat to yourself that you are not just a pushy parent who thinks that her child is bright. With IQ scores in that range, he is gifted. He does need more than the std classroom material.

Of course there are schools where a lot of the kids are hothoused and a lot of them perform above grade level. That does not make your child's 99th percentile scores irrelevant. It also does not make it likely that all of these "pushed" kids are performing at the 99th percentile.

You need to have a specific plan for what you are seeking and a back up plan that you are fully willing to implement if they say no. Like others have said, I'd be looking at the following:

1) Do you have other schooling options? Being willing to change schools or homeschool may elicit willingness to work with you on the school's behalf if they are motivated to keep him.

2) Ask for subject acceleration in language arts and inclusion in this pull-out group. Don't do it in a wishy-washy way. Put it in writing with supporting documentation (his test scores).

3) Request a meeting with the GT coordinator and bring someone with you (dad, advocate, etc.) Should you happen to live in Northern Colorado, pm me and I'll come help you be the advocate .

You are definatly not alone in this. We all have been there. It took me a loooong time to get the grade skip I pushed for, DD9 just started this week in 5th.

We are all exhausted. It really just comes down to wearing them down sometimes. Keep pushing forward.

Momma Bear,
The quote is from the Poem for South African Women by Jones, June:
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/poem-for-south-african-women/

First, I just want to welcome you to the board. We have some great people on here that have a lot of experience and should be able to give you some help. Just sorry that it was for advocating that isn't working that brought you to us.

I agree with inky in that you need to make 'official' requests that cover you. Put everything in writing. And request all responses back to be in writing. Even if they stop you in the hall to give you the answer, ask that they email/write you the information. Or quickly go home and send them an email with the information that you talked about under the idea of I just wanted to clarify.

If we knew what state you lived in it would help us understand the state laws. You might live in a state of mandatory gifted but have a district that isn't following the rules. Even though your son's results were not at his true abilities they seem like they meet gifted requirements to be in a gifted program. Do you know your schools requirements? I would start with that angle to get him in the pull out. It definitely looks like their program is more of a popularity one. I would question it too if the majority of the kids in the pull out were teachers' children.

Each state should have a gifted association. IE. I live in Texas and ours is the Texas gifted and talented association. You could look it up for your state and give them a call. I talked to mine here and came away feeling that they not only know individual districts but seem to have some good contacts within and around the district to help advocate.


I understand the guilt and my heart really goes out to you and your son. Reasons why it is a big problem: HG+ kids are high risk kids for drop out, drug use, suicide, and not reaching their full potential. They need to be challenged... they need to learn to learn. Your son isn't getting that opportunity while in this school and you are seeing the effects of this. Some gifted kids will become disruptive while others will fade into the background. Your son looks to be fading into the background. Advocating is one of the hardest things to take on but it is also so important.

And last ... do you have an options other than this district? Are there Charter schools, private schools, gifted schools or even homeschooling options in your area? Look at every option and see if you can find a better fit for your son.

I also feel like I should inform you that my DD is not 'school' age yet. She is 4 and is in preschool. We started her in a social preschool and realized almost immediately that it wasn't a good fit. By the end of the 2nd month I was scrabbling, looking for another school. We enrolled her in a private Spanish Immersion program which is a challenge with just the language but the school is also ahead academically by 2 years. It isn't considered a 'gifted' school but it's challenging. She is now in the 4 year old class and goes full time. Besides Spanish she also has classes in French and Mandarin. Before enrolling her I asked about acceleration and they are very open to it. When she shows mastery of the classroom work they will test her and go from there. Of course this is mastery in Spanish.

So even though my child is not school age I still have had a peek into what issues we would be dealing with. I have learned that she needs to be challenged and we are hoping she stays challenged where she is at and if she isn't challenged I hope that they follow through with their promises OR we will be looking for another school.

Thanks Inky, I knew I had heard it before

I feel for you. I completely suck in advocating. I couldn't even make a Montessori school do what I wanted even though they themselves told me that DS (5 at that time) was an exceptionally smart student. Math was ok, but I couldn't get anywhere with LA (different teacher). You know like have DS study more difficult spelling words than just cat, hat, and lake. Never mind that he could spell at the 4th grade level at that time.

We are homeschooling. It's much easier and less stressful than my unsuccessful attempts to advocate.

So glad you have found us.

When I got overwhelmed, at the beginning of last year (thank goodness for this site), I jotted down some notes to myself about how to break down what I needed to do. I actually think as a board we could write a "steps to take when you start to advocate for your gifted kid" info sheet. I am not sure these are in any correct order, many you would do many steps at the same time, but hopefully they will give you some direction and help.

As Momma Bear pointed out, my step 1 is to find out what you are entitled to. Are you in a state with a mandate, does that mandate have any teeth (I'm in a state with a mandate but no funding, so unless I am willing to sue, which I most likely would not be willing to do, I'm stuck). What are your state and district policies on gifted education - you can usually find these online. What policies (written and unwritten) does the school have? What is great about this step is it gives you something concrete to do - good for those of us who need to take action to feel effective.

Step 2 is to think about whether there is testing or retesting that will help with the advocacy effort. Sometimes it is something the district should do, or you have IQ test results but the school wants achievement. For example, as Onthegomom states, maybe it would be worth it to test your son next spring on WISC now that he is older and more likely to stay engaged for the entire test. Maybe he will hit DYS levels and you can get some help that way. However, if your child is in the 99th % he is gifted by any definition. The tests you did may not matter to the school, but they should give you the confidence to know that what you are asking for is not irrational and that he needs more to have an adequate education.

Step 3, in my opinion, is to build relationships within the school and district. Talk to people, find out who the decision makers are, find out what the district/school has done in the past. Get to know some parents of special education children if you don't already, and learn about advocacy from them. If someone says the school has "never" done something, keep it in mind, but don't believe it is an absolute bar. Believe, even though it is difficult , that until proven otherwise, the school wants to help your child, but that there are barriers in theway of the school/princiapl too. There are many many stories on this board where something once deemed impossible became possible. Read them and try to stay positive (maybe that is step 3(b)?)

Step 4 - decide, based on 1-3 above, what you want to ask for. Consider everything from full skips, to subject acceleration, to pull-outs, online learning, even differentiation. Grinity says, and I agree, that if you are pretty sure about what the right answer is, ask for twice as much as you want, or at minimum, what you really think you should get - don't water it down. Be explicit. Be realistic. If you are less sure, you may want to take it in steps. Your first request might be simply for them to test your son on the 2nd and 3rd grade math and LA curriculum.

If you are backed by state or district law or policy, say so. You can ask for it informally the first time, but expect for them to ignore your request or drag their feet. Be willing to spend some time on the informal process, because you may maintain good will if you can work it out that way. However, don't let it drag on. Ten business days is sufficient time for a response - if you don't hear back within that amount of time, be ready to send a formal letter stating what you want and why you are entitled to it to the principal. If that formal letter doesn't do it, send a second letter with copies to the appropriate higher ups (the super. or even board of ed. members in some cases, in some districts it might just be a curriculum supervisor). At that point, I would likely send each copy certified, and if you are protected by state or district policies, cite the provisions, explain why they apply to you, explain what you want and why you are entitled to it. Once again, parents of special needs kids have to do this sort of thing all the time (although in some cases the process is more clear).

Step 5 - consider other options. Homeschool, private school, etc. In my case, I felt fairly certain that the district really did care about my child, they just needed way more convincing than I thought was reasonable. However, I def. started learning more about homeschooling while I was advocating, and started doing a bit of research on private schools. Since private schools would have required me to go back to work full time, they were a very unlikely long term option, but we did consider them as a way to have DS skip a year or two if we decided that was the best option and the public school wouldn't do it.

Step 6- take care of yourself and give yourself time. For most of us, grade skips and/or subject acceleration was a year-long or multi-year process. It is also a work in progress. Do as Daytripper suggests, get support from a partner, spouse, friend or here.

Good luck,

Cat

I get it. It's hard, it's a pain, but it is so worth it. We finally got a great placement for DS7, but it was a lot of work. It is still work due to his 2e-ness (1 1/2 hour meeting with 12 "experts" last week...another one today at 3pm) but it IS do-able.

We have had advocates come with us to meetings which is very helpful. That way you don't get overwhelmed or "bullied." The advocate can calmly state things that would bring tears to your eyes if you had to say it. The special ed advocate is also a gifted advocate since gifted falls in the same category in our school system. (They don't call it special ed, they call it exceptional student education). So maybe you can look in that department for an advocate for you and your child.

Nan

Hi TiredMommy- I love the advice you've gotten. Yes - you child is gifted. And sure they school will act like being gifted is no big deal, because for 2/3 of gifted kids it probably is truly 'no big deal' in some districts. The problem is that what we call 'Levels of Gifted' - and what is fine for a kid who is 125-130 Gifted, which is the majority, just doesn't come anywhere near close for some kids with IQs like yours. Of course it depends so much on the personality of the child, and the teacher and the classmates.

I do disagree that HG kids are 'high risk' for all those terrible things. I think that HG kids do get in trouble, probably at about the same frequency as kids to overall, but that for HG kids, spending years being bored at school is a direct contributer to the problems they do have. I would frame it more as a 'common decency' question. The other 2nd graders get to come to school and have both the excitement of learning something new and the growth of work ethic from learning hard things on a regular basis. Why shouldn't your kid get that too? If it's important for the other kids, they why isn't it important to your kid?

You school probably has a motto, and you may want to look it up and refer to it often. The official motto probably isn't 'teaching all kids to get by with the bare minimum.'

In the end, the school may just plain not give you what you think is needed. We had to switch school, get a gradeskip, enjoy that for a while, then switch schools and reverse the gradeskip. Because it's pretty normal for HG and PG kids to keep changing and growing and needing different things at different times - so flexability is the name of the game!

I think we did a great job of reviewing the basics! Go Us! The whole process is much easier if tapes of 'you always were selfish as an elementary student and we didn't care then and we don't care now' are drowned our by our group of voices saying: 'Trust your Mom-gut!' and 'Your child is worth it!' and 'It matters!'
Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thank you all for everything you wrote. It was all valuable and helpful, even the "yea, it is hard!" comments.

I don't feel as alone and discouraged as I've felt the last few weeks.

Several of you have asked where we live. We are in Maryland. In our particular district, there are no charter schools or gifted/magnet schools. Our district is proud of their schools and publish test scores that are nothing short of phenomenal. Sixty percent of the district participates in some level of gifted programming. I'm saying all this with sarcasm.
I believe the downside to living in utopia where every child is above average, is that there isn't a real interest in truly above-level kids. I've called the BOE GT department. I was told that GT doesn't start until 3rd grade so I just need to work with the teacher.

The pull-outs that happen are called "enrichment" and are based on teacher nomination. GT doesn't want to get involved in the selection because it really isn't GT, it is just enrichment.

Thank you again for all the wisdom I've gleaned. I'm going to continue reading this thread every time I start to feel down.

One more question: I've contacted several educational advocates who have said they only work with special needs. But, I was looking at Hopkins CTY and it looks like they do some advocacy work. Has anyone worked with them in this capacity?

Since you're in Maryland, you may want to check out the More Child blog. There is contact information and a post about John Hopkins CTY.
http://themorechild.com/about/

Sounds like the teachers are gaming the system to benefit themselves and their own and no one else. That's pretty bad.

It really comes down the what the school and state policies are. If they have objective standards and are not following them then they can be open to a lawsuit or and investigation by the state.

You can take the battle to the next level or look for a school that has objective standards. ( Your kiddo would be admitted to a number of programs in Texas based solely on test scores alone.)

In the meantime, maybe you can work with him and build up his self-worth since the school and the teachers have to work hard to squash his and yours to hide the scummy thing they are doing.

Welcome! And you're certainly not alone. I don't know of anyone who has not had to work at least a little to try to find appropriate placement for their GT kiddo.

Since your school gave you the "we don't have GT until 3rd grade" line, I'll share my experience. Our school also had no formal GT until 3rd, but we approached the Gifted Coordinator before our DS entered the school system with our concerns. We approached it as asking for help "We've got these crazy scores, and a kid who taught himself to read at 3 - can you help us figure out what to do with him?" The GT staff hopefully should be familiar with levels of giftedness, and hopefully they will help you in your advocacy. In our case, the GT Coordinator acted as a liaison with the principal, and convinced the school that our DS needed more.

Even though things seemed to have gone smoothly in that the school recognized that our DS was different, it took a long time for anything to happen. What finally really helped was the school tested our DS using their own tests (in our case the WJ and MAP). Then they really got it, and started to differentiate. At the end of kindy last year, we also had to do some advocacy to get a grade skip for our DS, because they told us he was at least 2 years ahead in math and reading, but they were planning to put him in 1st with differentiation. We provided the school with a copy of the Iowa Acceleration Scale (a great form that considers the many different factors of skipping to determine if your child would be a good candidate). http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Resources/IAS.aspx
The school filled it out and finally agreed to the skip. Our DS still needs differentiation even with the skip. We plan to be advocates for a long time!

Good luck, and please post all your questions along the way. Someone will help!

Gratified,

You're right about saying "don't compare him to others." I thought that as I wrote it. I think my frustration and the reason I allude to other kids is that "they were taught" and "they grew in their abilities." My little guy did not learn or grow. The other kids got to learn, my son didn't. That is the real point of contention.

Last year, my son came home once a week from school--sick. He went to the nurses office and told them he thought he was going to vomit. This happened for five straight weeks, then school ended for summer.

He told me a few days ago that he like school a little better this year because he hasn't lied to the school nurse this yet this year. (I thought he was faking it, but that little comment proved it.) He said in K it was so boring. He said this year, it is still boring, but there are some fun things going on as well.

His proudest moment is that he gets to help the girls that sit beside him with reading help.

He seems to be doing okay overall. He isn't miserable. But it is also clear that he isn't into the work part of school. I don't see material coming home that he can't already do--ever.

TiredMom,

Like everyone else I like to say welcome aboard! In my state there is virtually nothing mandated for GT. But what I have found is that if you can educate yourself "Past the educators" regarding the needs of gifted children, the state mandates, federal laws blah, blah, blah..... They will cave. Why? Because they start to realize that you know more than they do and they are likely to get more than they bargained for if they don't!

This really is a case of the "squeaky wheel". They will ignore you as long as they believe they can. Put everything in writing, everything! and find out what the chain of command is in your district. If you continue to get no response from the school, move up the chain of command. Be a nag, be pushy, whatever it takes to make them understand that you WILL NOT go away. Never lose your temper, but rather spout laws and mandates at them. They get nervous the second one person begins to consider the possibility of a law suit and suddenly doors open.

Because in the end, fear works!

just make sure that knowledge comes with the mohawk!! LOLOL

We have had a few conversations in the past about the top notch school districts and how sometimes they are not the best fit for HG+ kids. Many kids in these districts are gifted, but moderately gifted and the district seems to think what works for the masses of their gifted kids works for all which is just not the case. They tend to be inflexible and are harder to advocate with.

Your state is a mandatory gifted state but does not have allocated funding. So there are laws to pull from ... a positive for your case.

"The Maryland Coalition for Gifted and Talented Education (MCGATE) is a statewide parent/professional advocacy group. Membership in MCGATE is open to Maryland's local county advocacy groups, individual parents, students, educators, administrators, concerned citizens, and businesses. Work is done on the national, state, and local levels and with other educational associations to build support for gifted children in Maryland."

http://www.mcgate.org/

I would definitely contact this organization and talk to them. They classify themselves as a gifted advocacy group so it would be a good place to start.

Hope that helps!

I'd actually venture to say that it isn't that many of the kids in these districts are gifted; it's that many of the kids in these districts are high achievers who are wrongly identified as gifted. We, too, live in a district with much higher than state avg test scores where huge numbers of kids are ided as gifted. While my dds are probably more than MG, I'm not ready to say that they are so far out there gifted that they shouldn't be able to work with a classroom where a lot of the kids are MG. That might be a reasonable fit for at least one of them. Even one of the GT coordinators at a school dd12 has attended told me straight up that most of the kids who are in GT programming and ided as gifted aren't actually gifted but rather kids who score around the 95th percentile on grade level reading or math tests.

Seeing how huge the difference btwn these kids and dds is, I'd tend to agree that we don't have some unusual location where a lot of kids are gifted but rather an unusual lot of kids who are called gifted b/c they perform above the minimal grade level expectations. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine b/c it shouldn't be so hard to get the needs of my MG-HG kids met. I don't think that dd12, for instance, would need to be entering high school next year if the schools were better able to serve the needs of low end HG kids without the types of steps we've had to take to keep her learning a little something in at least one or two subjects.

I saw this last year with one of my coworker's sons. The boy was 5 and doing 2 digit multiplication in his head and reading 6 grades ahead. This top notch DFW area district told him there was nothing they could do with his son. Luckily, his parents looked for alternatives and found a good fit for him and the boy is really happy where he is at.

Wow, what a great thread. I've nothing to add, but as someone at the begining of this process too, I am just grateful that you've all given such insightful advice! I'll be emailing this thread home as a keeper

Hellloooo People! I've been off for awhile and was just checking in (the glories of being at a gifted school as I'm not a panic all the time).

I have two conflicting thoughts:

Never give up.

Take some days off.

Never give up. Make it work one semester at a time. Try not to focus on the overwhelming hurdles down the path. Work hard to not to burn bridges or get labeled. Doing gifted right isn't about time, or money. It is about philosophy. And advocating successfully sometime requires a little luck that one day you'll find the ears that can hear and help.

Take some days off. Literally and figuratively. Advocating hard core can suck the life out of you. I admit I got very one tracked and it was hard to live life beyond making school work. Every now and then I found it refreshing to "throw in the towel" and just think they'll be ok. I always got back up off the mat. But full steam ahead can take it all and leave nothing for you, or your family. And frankly, when we were in public school I wish we took more days off. I didn't want to send the message that you can miss school. But in hindsight, a few plan planned school year vacations wouldn't have killed anyone.

I used to think when reading here all the time that it all got easier as they graded up but I think a lot of folks give up, give in, or find ways around (like horizontal learnings, alternative education, and out of school enrichment).

Our kids are bright. Hell I even use the word - they are gifted. And in most circles you cannot complain about it. You won't win people over saying your kid is too smart for school. But here... here you can say it.

I love this thread !! Ds7 is in 2nd grade, and goes to 3rd grade for math. I have been happy with that - even knowing he is way ahead on reading, I thought he was still OK. His teacher gives him 5th grade spelling words. All is well. Then his teacher made the ocmment in an e-mail that he is "superior to 2nd, 3rd and 4th grade in Language Arts". Now I'm thinking...does he need more than 2nd garde is offering ? Conferences are coming up. This thread is my friend Thanks !

I'm the type to give people the benefit of the doubt... I don't like to jump to conclusions about someone else's child being 'pushed' when I know my DD is probably being classified under that same title ... and if not she certainly will be at some point or other. When I read the first part of your post: I was a little annoyed. It falls under us too? But then I kept reading and I think you have a valid point and it made me think about the district I live in. I still think we have higher than average gifted rates than most districts but this is also an upper middle class district and these kids usually have a full time parent at home and they are actively involved in many activities from a very early age. Take the sons of all my friends. ALL of them have been in OT at some point or other. I found that strange. All of them? This was to ensure they were writing by the time they were in Kindergarten. Now one of them really needed it and has/had other issues but for the most part I saw typical boy issues that would disappear with maturity but they chose to use OT to get them past that point.

Sorry - didn't mean to be offensive. I do recognize that my dds have a tremendous advantage having me available to assist them with work when needed. Even as gifted kids, per IQ etc., they likely wouldn't be performing as well if they didn't have the support at home. Is that pushing? I don't know.

What I am referring to are districts where, like the OP stated, half of the kids are ided as gifted. Come on. I don't care how upper middle class the community is, these schools don't have 50% of their kids in the top 2% of the population (or even the top 5%) unless is was a planned community of members from a high IQ society or something.

I don't think that NCLB has been beneficial to a lot of kids. Even typical bright, high achieving kids who aren't technically gifted may need more. So they, too, are now "gifted." That doesn't serve the gifted kids well b/c the gifted programming is now set to serve a lot of kids with wildly different needs.

Much like you originally said that schools full of MG kids wouldn't likely serve the needs of HG+ kids, GT programs full of kids with IQs in the avg-somewhat above avg range likely won't meet the needs of MG kids. That's truly what I see in our GT programs. A child with a composite ability score (CogAT, OLSAT, or IQ) in the 50th percentile can be identified as gifted if he is high achieving in any one area and/or has leadership abilities or the "behavioral characteristics" of giftedness.

Cricket, I don't think your post was offensive at all. I've even had the GT teacher tell me the same thing. She sees a difference in the kids that are "truly gifted" and the ones who test well. Just as there is a difference between gifted children themselves. The higher the IQ, the more different they are even from each other!

No no, I wasn't offended. It was headed that way but as I stated, you have a valid point and it definitely made me reevaluate where I live.

I never thought about it being difficult to advocate in a school that serves more GT children. It seems you run into obstacles anywhere you go.

Great point mon! Many a charter school is being praised for structuring their curriculum in the way you described. It is definitely bringing up the masses.

All I can say is that it really depends on the view/perception of "GT" of the school and staff. We enrolled our son to a public GT magnet school for a semester. The admission uses IQ or achievement test results. There are also 2 other YSers in the same class, though we never identified DS as such to anyone. The school has his IQ scores, as well as his off-the-chart IBST (conducted there) results. But he was miserable over there. We were "suggested" to get him on meds. He was not challenged academically, and was scorned upon as not exactly following the instruction for going above and beyond for the homework. Teachers never truly addressed the teasing situation.

Aren't we glad that we moved him back to our neighbourhood school district and got teachers who really understand the different needs of DS. When there are teachers who really appreciate the ability of such kids and approach the work accordingly, it is a true blessing; and they are not necessary in GT schools.

More than once, I felt I was failing DS, because I was discouraged by the "wall" put up by the teacher/administrator to my request. But seeing DS' progress at home has always made me go back and try again. Little steps do add up. Yes, let me say that advocating still stinks, but it does get easier; however, it never ends. Keep at it, you will get there. And as others have already stated, this is a totally awesome group of people here who understand and support each other.