Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional ADHD, Visual spatial, sensory issues, what???

My son (7) has been identified as gifted by our public school. He is very bright, loves physics, space, and building. He enjoys reading -- always has a book in his hands. The testing completed was limited - just CogAt and ITBS. He is very visual -- tells me he sees things in his brain and says things like I have to look in my brain files. His reading comprehension is remarkable -- remembers and recalls things he reads in amazing detail. He reads well above grade level, preferring nonfiction reference type books written for much older kids. He is good at math as well. He loves designing and building things and often completes designs based on a books or tv shows (about futuristic cars for example) that have inspired him.

The problem we are having is he is inattentive in class. He is not impulsive, hyperactive, or immature for his age. He gets along well with his classmates. He sits, listens to the teacher and then as soon as it is time to do work on his own, he goes into his own world. He stays seated, but sits on his feet and sways and moves. He prefers to stand during his time in gifted class. He stays on task during tests when everyone else is quite and doing the same thing. He tells me the work is boring. He will also say he "forgets" what he is supposed to do. The work he is doing is below his ability level, and he has a 96% average on the work that has been graded. He just has a lot of work he has never completed and turned in. He has messy handwritng and hates to write. His gifted teacher also has trouble keeping him on task -- he wants to build and discuss physics instead of demonstrating some task she has asked him to do. At home we see it in him getting side tracked when I ask him to complete simple things like wash your face, brush your teeth and get your PJS on. I will find him at some stage on the process sitting and reading a book. When I ask why he has not done XYZ, he says I forgot. He has no sense of time. Getting out the door in the morning is a chore.

Our pediatrician called him a divergent thinker who needs to turn on the consequence side of his brain and learn to concentrate. The school (both gifted and classroom teacher) think he has ADHD. A psychologist referred us to a OT for an evaluation (which has not taken place). I have read so much and see a little of him in each of the areas listed above. I feel like different professionals will see it through their own lense. We are early in this process and I feel really frustrated already. I don't really care if we get a "diagnosis" or really know if he has anything "wrong". I just want to help him. Do any of you have a similar child? What kind of professional should we take him to see to get a whole kid prespective? I appreciate any insight you may have.

Hi Awalk,

Inattention can be caused by a number of things, ADHD being one of them.

My inclination would be to seek evaluation with a neuropsych or developmental pediatrician, preferably one who's seen a lot of gifted kids. ADHD is tough to diagnose because they have to show that it "interferes with learning"-- and because your kid is gifted, that means they might not see the "interfering" part clearly.

The advantage to a devel. ped. is that if they found he needed meds for ADHD, a devel. ped. can be a prescribing physician and monitor longer-term.

I think you're right to follow up; whatever the cause, your DS will need to learn strategies for keeping on track.

Best,
DeeDee

I think it is worth pursuing with a professional that is very experienced withe ADHD and learning. I agree with DeeDee that a developmental pediatrician would be appropriate. You might also consider a neurologist that specializes in learning and ADHD or a Psychiatrist. These medical doctors will most likely recommend a full neuropsychological evaluation that includes cognitive testing and achievement testing by a neuorpsychologist that specializes in educational issues.

As far as the OT - there could be some interplay between the two. If he does have ADHD-inattentive type, this is often a situation where he has difficulty regulating and weeding out sensory input. It really isn't "inattention" but scattered attention to everything around him. OT's can offer instruction in certain self-regulation strategies that may help him zero in and focus on only the things that are important. You can will also learn if his handwriting difficulties could be supported by occupational therapy.

I worry about your pediatrician's comment that your son could be a "divergent thinker who needs to turn on the consequence side of his brain and learn to concentrate." ADHD is a medical condition that involves the dopamine levels in the brain. Because the levels are slightly out of alignment in the brains of those with ADHD, there is a medical reason for the inattention. You would no more tell a diabetic that they need to turn on the consequence section of their pancreas and expect the insulin levels to be appropriate. But, like diabetes, for some people there are strategies such as exercise that can help regulate the problem. For others, they need both the strategies and the medication.

I think you should follow up and get more information. It could be ADHD it could be something else. But, the only way to find out is to evaluate and speak with experts.

Best of luck.

Is his behavior difference when he is challenged?

I am not sure if I would call it challenged or engaged -- if the topic is interesting, he will listen and pay attention. He tunes out on activities that are not engaging or if it is repetitive -- simple math that he long ago mastered. We had a great kindergarten teacher who hand wrote more advanced math activities on the back of worksheets for him to do and he enjoyed it. She also listened to what he was interested in and would get special books for him. He was obsessed with the number googol for a time and she found a kid's book about it for him to read during "reading". During art, instead of following the example, he would make whatever the project they were doing 3D by rolling and taping paper. She told me she had to work hard to keep him engaged, and had a student teacher to help her. But she really enjoyed him and he had a great year. Now the curriculum is not differentiated. Our problems started in first grade. But it can't all be that he is bored. He loves to talk and has very creative ideas, but hates to write anything down. One of the activities in first grade was journal. He had to write 3-4 sentences. It was like pulling teeth! When I told him to make it creative -- write a Haiku, a story or a letter -- he did better. We have tried to use "fun" activities as incentive -- going to the art table or reading when you finish your work -- with varied success. He just has a hard time staying on task to finsish really simple work sheets. Things we know he has mastered but simply can't stay on track to complete.

Got it. Sounds like he needs more challenging work, not a diagnosis. (I hope that doesn't sound flippant. My kiddo sounds similar...)

My 7 year old son has/had similar behaviors in the classroom, yet they have all but evaporated with the right school and the right teacher. His teacher told us that the faster she has him work, the better he does. Negative behavior reports are gone, and his anxiety and dislike of school is gone as well!

And by the way, he was diagnosed at a young age with autism, but until he got his current gifted placement, his behaviors were an issue despite our request for more challenging work for him. His previous school, teachers, and administration only saw the autism and not the giftedness. It has been a HUGE change now that the school's emphasis is on challenging work for him!

Yes, a kid like this needs challenge at school. But the part that seems to me to tip the balance toward pursuing a diagnosis is not being able to follow through on household tasks-- tooth brushing, getting PJs on-- without multiple prompts.

The child sounds able to do these simple tasks, and yet isn't getting them done, although it would be age appropriate to be able to do them independently. That combined with the school issues suggests something more than needing challenging work.

My two cents, YMMV,
DeeDee

Awalk, I almost think you are writing my son. My DS8 is EXACTLY like your son. After a long time consideration and observation, and read a lot of information from this board, this month I finally had my son evaluated by a psychologist. He had IQ and achievement test already. Next week he will have OT test than we will wait for the report. That doctor's specialty is 2e kids so I don't have to worry misdiagnosis. My son is bright but he tried to avoid any work involved writing. He is 3rd grade now so there are lots of writing work. His teacher and I both so frustrated to have him finished his work. I cannot give you advice now because I am waiting for the result. I just want to let you know you are not alone. If you want to seek professional help, you have to find someone has experience with gifted children.

This reminded me of the "flow chart" that contrasts audio-sequential from visual-spatial learners here: (from this article: Maintaining Harmony at Home )

I agree that some of your son's activity sounds like a 7 yo boy with a lot of energy & knowledge to share. I have an 8 yo like that & have to remind him at times when it is appropriate to tell people about the latest sea creature he read about & when it isn't. But obviously you want your son to learn to complete tasks & interact in class.

My dd11 liked to stand up while working in 3rd & 4th grade but seems to have outgrown that. She is actually pretty quiet in class. We are having her evaluated soon (neuropsychological eval) for deficits in written expression, spelling, language even though her grades & test scores are high. She has a lot of anxiety when she has to "put things in her own words" in writing. One poster on here suggested stealth dyslexia. Hopefully we will find out soon.

Good luck!

Awalk, my 7yo son sounds exactly the same too. He's very bright and has accelerated math classes where he focuses because it is highly student-teacher interactive. But for unaccelerated work especially related to writing, he balks and drags his feet.

For the longest time, I thought he had ADHD. His psychologist didn't think so because of his giftedness, but I could see the daily lack of focus, the staring and smiling into space when he was supposed to be doing homework, and I was getting a lot of complaints from school. Getting him to complete simple tasks is difficult because he seems not to hear, so you can imagine how it is in an environment like school.

What he does have is a significant vision issue with very poor visual discrimination. He also has sensory issues and has poor gross motor skills. His OT said his vision profile is that of a dyslexic, but he isn't (he's reading the Murderous Math series now). He does however, have the other symptoms of a dyslexic (no sense of time, poor auditory processing). And because of his vision, writing is tough too. We're working to get this corrected, and in the meanwhile, I'm planning to homeschool him within a very tactile environment.

Awalk, I completely agree with the other posters to investigate further. Good luck on your search!

We seem fairly evenly split, don't we?! You're going to have to follow your intuition... But my 2pworth is that he sounds in need of more challenge rather than of a diagnosis - I'd wonder whether the gifted class is almost as underchallenging as the normal classroom for him (might be worth a fuller investigation of his level of giftedness). You said that it can't all be boring and that e.g. he doesn't write much even for interesting writing tasks. My DS's teacher last year had what seemed to me a useful insight when he was behaving similarly - she said that he wants to write things that are like what he reads in books, isn't prepared to be satisfied with something that seems less convincing that that, and gets frustrated. Maybe it's similar for your DS?

I called and spoke with a Developmental pediatrician today and we are in the process of making an appointment. He will look at everything - auditory, visual, intelligence- to help us determine the cause of the behavior. I had the eyeopening experience of watching him do some math worksheets this weekend. I had to sit by him to get him to complete them. He told me he does not even read the whole problem -- just skims for the key words (less,more) and the numbers (explains why he never draws the picture - I suppose you could call it impulsive). It was all the work he has not turned in for the past few weeks, so it was half done and about 8 pages in all. He did them in about 20 minutes, but only because I sat next to him and kept him on task. When I left the room, he was up doing some other activity. It made me realize that if he was not so bright and able to do these problems with such little mental effort, it would have been near impossible.

Most of our homework is wrting down the name of a book you read and a short sentence about it(not much of a problem since he loves to read and choses his own books and comes up with the shortest concise sentence.) This was a completely different experience. I am looking forward to meeting with the doctor. Thanks to everyone for sharing thier thoughts and experiences.

Awalk, I hope you get good information that leads to an excellent plan for your DS. Keep us posted.

DeeDee

I will tell when our report back. It could take 2-3 more weeks.

My son's sometimes has good performance and sometimes don't. Today he had tons of homework because last week he was absent for the test. All of the homework sheets are math and grammar. It took him time to finish but he could keep on working. As long as the homework has writing involved, I need to stay next to him and rush him every few minutes. Sometime it still took hours to finish few questions. He has trouble to express his idea on paper since kindergarten. I am not sure he has ADHD by now but he did fit lots of traits.

Recently I have tried this at home. Gave my son a reasonable time (like 10-20 mins) to finish a portion of homework. I put a timer in front of him so he could see how much time he had. Before time's up or finishing the portion, he could not leave his seat or daydreaming. After that he could have a short break and then came back to work on next portion. The strategy didn't work perfectly but it did help him to focus more.

I hope that you keep in mind that a child can be gifted and have ADHD. And, working with a team evaluators will help you gather objective data necessary for understanding what is going on and what is interfering with his performance. It could be ADHD, it could be lack of sleep, Lyme decease, and learning disability, boredom or any combination of these and more. It is probably best to go into the evaluation process without preconceived notions and to stick to the "referral question" "What is interfering with his ability to stay on focused on academic tasks, daily routines etc".

The key to answering this question will be the gathering of information you need to understand your child's cognitive, medical and learning profile to rule in or rule out causes. This will allow you to formulate an effectuve plan to help your child. By working with a team of experts you can get to the bottom of this much more quickly.

Best of luck.