Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy I'm jealous of people accelerating for reading

All my friends have children who are advanced in reading, not (necessarily or obviously at this point) math. My child is advanced in math, and can't read yet.

I am so jealous of them! It seems like all they will have to do is hand the kid a bigger book with longer words and voila! Accommodation has been made! With mine, it would need a total curriculum makeover to reframe older grade level math in non-reading and manipulative and picture heavy ways. Not to mention that you can sit and read a book on your own for hours, but math doesn't really work that way (for her, anyway).

And, it must be so easy to identify advanced readers when they read things they're not supposed to be able to, or tip off the teacher by requesting Harry Potter from the school library. I can't imagine a situation in Kindergarten where you'd casually bring up remainders in conversation.

Now, please tell me I'm wrong, because it can't be that easy (and any tips for how I can alter second and third grade arithmetic and higher grade geometry stuff to have more pictures would be welcome, too)

Hi Tallulah
I'm sorry you are so frustrated. My 4.5 DS is very advanced inn reading but there are still challenges. He is in pre-k and just got his letter of the week curriculum schedule, I sighed a big sigh and I think he did too. But then he is getting OT for fine motor so having to do Aa next week won't be a total loss. Our challenges are thing like appropriateness, he can't read Harry Potter, way too scary for my sensitive guy. And an interesting moment when my father brought a body book which had a section explaining what an erect man does. That was a bit beyond what we were ready for him to know!!! And you would be surprised about identification in pre-k if they are not looking for it, they won't see it. I told DS new teacher that he was reading, and she has a fabulous rep and she still asked if he was just reading or if he actually comprehended. I ws a bit thrown by that, can you be considered reading if you don't understand what the words together mean? It's interesting, see the thread on verbal skills, its impressive early, but then it doesn't attraction continued attention and people start saying stuff like oh, the others will catch up. Then math precociousness gets everyone all excited.

Anyhow, I can't speaks to altering the math, although I would be interested in what interests her and what others say. Perhaps the no stress chess everyone is
mentioning, we are going to get that! DS is ahead in math but only interested when it related to something else. Instead of focusing on the math, what about the reading.
Have you tried starfall.com. It's fabulous and a friend who's kid is gifted but not
advanced in reading and was resisting said it really helped.

Hang in there!!

DeHe

Advance reading has some challenges too. I have 2 children that read over 250 books each, last year during school,unrequired reading. This is a demanding challenge. My kids are sensitive and I need to keep it appropriate.

In school, my son write like a 4th grader but has adult comprehension so this make a challenge with his interest level.
But I will count my blessings and you should too.

It is certainly OK to vent and complain here. We all need it sometime. I'm just suggesting another way to look at the situation.

We are using the ixl.com website, and I noticed that it features the ability to generate sounds of what's onscreen, though sadly only for the early levels. Could you use some sort of screen-reading software, to let your little one do math practice without reading yet?

One good thing about IXL is that a fair bit of it has pictures, but again that seems to decrease as you go up the levels. I think there are other sites out there that may do more visual-spatial oriented teaching or practice.

I have an accelerated reader and it's not as easy as you think (we have math too so all around it's rough) but... for the reading... we get complaints that the kids read so slow that it's torturous (regardless of giving a child a bigger book, in class, they still do the grade level material for reading. Even if they get an advanced grade level reading text, it's still not on par for what is needed.) As others have mentioned, comprehension is way ahead and bigger books would provide a challenge, however, there are issues with content and age appropriate material. I used to read the books before DC did to see if it was okay... now that she is older, I can't keep up with the amount of books she reads. I often read many reviews on am@zon about a book and can kinda get an idea of the appropriateness. The other is issue is that many books are intense for an emotional giftie as well (so many stories have sad parts or high climax points that can be overwhelming). With time, these are better handled but when a child is so young but can read years ahead, there's a fine line between challenging enough, but age appropriate. Also, at school, they could only check out books that were set for their grade and those were always way below what was read at home. That was a great source of frustration for DC.

You are absolutely right.

I think this is why on achievement tests at age 7 or so you get about 2-3 years above grade level and the kid is considered in the >99.9 percentile, while with reading you can be 5 years ahead of grade level and only be in the high 90s.

This is why we homeschool.

Here's some things that maybe of interest with pictures:

Sir Cumference and all the king's tens : a math adventure / Cindy Neuschwander ; illustrated by Wayn ( there are more in this series)

Transport math / by Lesli Evans.
Science math / by Dawn Stosch.
Body math / by Penny Dowdy.
Nature math / by Penny Dowdy.
Travel math / by Pia Awal.


There are a few more by this author and different levels
Math potatoes : more mind-stretching brain food / by Greg Tang ; illustrated by Harry Briggs.

Math fables / by Greg Tang.

http://www.loreenleedy.com she has some Math topics

go to mindware.com for lots of Math alternatives.


There are also lots of websites for Math:

http://www.brainpop.com/math/ You can do a free trial here.


That should keep you busy for a while. Have fun!!!!

And I'm asking for another way to look at the situation, believe me.

Thank you so much for all those links! I'm opening our library catalog right now. I already have a couple of books about really big numbers to get tomorrow. She seems to really be into the concepts, with a surprising insight into them, too.

It feels like reading a higher level book isn't that different from reading a simple book, but it's just something that builds on what you've read before in terms of vocabulary and speed, and uses attention span and maturity as you get older. I mean, reading Plato and Shakespeare are a matter of concentration and understanding, not reading mechanics. But I'm fascinated by the ceiling on mathematical ability and how you can't force something until their brain is there. I've just tried to explain what I see in my DD three times and I can't do it well, so bear with me. She does interesting complicated stuff, but only on small numbers, and it's not a quantum shift from 1,2,3, lots to 1, 2, 3... 1,000. She has tens, but hundreds are shaky, and not fully instinctive. And getting hundreds won't mean she's automatically got thousands. She's got fractions, but I haven't tried decimals yet because of the place value issue. It's fascinating, particularly since I'm math phobic.

I definitely understand what you're saying. You learn to read, then read to learn, as they say. If you can't read, it's hard to advance in other topics. But, it's wonderful! that you're looking for ways to develop this interest.
http://www.criticalthinking.com
Critical Thinking Company has some great products, like math analogies, complete the picture and balance books (with weight equivalents). These will not only be great for your dd's math, but will also really help her on standardized testing. LOL - I don't work for this company, btw, but my kids really like their products. There are also some other ones, logic stuff, that my kids have gotten as software and I think a fair bit can be done without reading.
http://www.etacuisenaire.com/catalog/department?deptId=MATH&d0=MATH
There are also lots of great math manipulatives (see above link) that are fun for kids to use. Even simple stuff like Tanagrams that you can get at Target.
All these things are wonderful for getting her brain thinking. It doesn't have to be reading! In fact, three of my four were early readers (although I often comment that the best reader, now 17 and an English major in college was the only one who read at a more normal age)... and for the early years, my boys definitely preferred hands on stuff. Ds1 is 10 now and will read for hours, but ds8 still likes the building, doing, etc... and usually doesn't read for more than 30 minutes at once.
It definitely is more "straightforward" for the early readers and YES, it does put a sign on their forehead. I'm not embarrassed to say that I encouraged my kids to discuss what they were currently reading with their teachers as a way to get their teachers clued in that they were not the average kid. OTOH, neither is your dd and you should talk to her teachers about her math ability and see what you can do to continue to encourage that throughout her school years.
Good luck!
Theresa

I agree that even though reading ability is much more prominent and attention-getting when you're very young, it's the math skills that attract attention as you get older. I think it's easier to immediately spot a gifted math kid in high school than to pick up on a gifted kid in writing or English. In the end, everyone takes English, but not everyone takes Calculus, so it develops a bit of a mystique. I have two dds in college. One wants to get her PhD in neuroscience, and one wants to get her PhD in English. I think they're both brilliant, but guess who gets immediately "pegged" as brilliant? Science major or math major just "says" smart to people, even though my science major has just as much awe and respect for her sister's English/writing ability as her sister has for her science and math ability!

loreen leedy is awesome - just got the new one on energy - main character is Erg! Love it!

the sir circumference books were good as well, although my DS prefers the Magic school bus style for information (which Leedy uses. The SC books are presented as a story with the math woven in and the story did not keep him as interested although he remembers the information - like the pair of lells (parallel get it) if you don't like puns don't get it!!

really excited to check out the transport math, etc.

Still waiting on the library for penrose the cat (apparently more math - I think some of these were in an old thread on books)

DeHe

I think this is my favorite part of this site - the advice is so incredibly helpful!!

I got two Sir Cumference books today - they are so great, I'm excited to show her them. I also got the one with piles of peas showing how big numbers are and a Loreen Leedy on fractions.

Thanks!

My DS is accelerated both in math and reading. There are unique problems with both and I'm not sure there is a "better" option. It really has come down to teacher training in our experience.

For reading, he's 7 1/2, grade skipped and reads at a high school level. But he doesn't have the emotional understanding or the content knowledge to deal with material at that level in a healthy way. I totally get that! However, the school's default answer is "he's too young to understand what he's reading so we'll only give him one or two years above grade level." Okay but why not ask content questions at his level? Why not analyze themes, discuss character development or compare and contrast two books of similar themes?

Math is similar- he's ready for Algebra but nobody in his elementary school knows how to teach it. So he gets a mismash of worksheets, half-hearted differentiation and a lot of adults scratching their heads. What he doesn't get is MORE work... a huge bonus from his previous school!

I have comfortably adjusted to serious afterschooling. He's happy at school, loves the specials he gets (PE, art and Spanish) and enjoys the setup. I just know that it's my job to cover the other subjects at his level until we're in a situation where the teachers have the ability.

My DS6 is probably equally advanced in reading and Math (several grade levels above in each). While reading got everyone's attention when he was little (like 2 and 3) math is what gets everyone's attention now. They have to have a different placement for him for math, and reading I am not sure they are accommodating as much as they should/could. With our DS they have subject accelerated him about 2 years for reading and +3 for math. Can't complain at all though, they have really done a lot. Anyhow, I have noticed that whether gifted in math or reading, each have their struggles and rewards. Regarding book suggestions, DS has enjoyed David Schwartz books (If dogs were dinosaurs, How much is a million?, If you hopped like a frog, G is for googol). There are a bunch more that are pretty cool and there are great illustrations!

I agree with what has already been said! While DS6 has always been far ahead in both, it was reading (at 2) that shocked everyone. Very few people other than teachers realized that things like 1-1 correspondence and basic addition were extraordinarily advanced at that age, too. Since he could constantly practice reading on his own, he skyrocketed in reading, to the point where he was in 2nd grade math at 5.5 but tested in at 9th grade reading comp. (and read the HP series--the scary things went right over his head).

However, now that he's doing "fun math" (what he calls algebraic equations and mult/div), he's "catching up" in math and moving faster in that than anything else. At 6.25, he's approaching 4th grade in EPGY math. NOW, we hear more buzz about his math skills than his reading skills.

Your son is still young as a reader, so there's certainly nothing to worry about. You are definitily right, though, that when he does develop the reading skills, his world and knowledge base will suddenly take off with all that he can devour!

Meanwhile, the best reading program I've found online is abcreadingeggs.com. They're doing 5 week free trials right now, and my 29 month old loves it when we dabble in it. It claims to go through "2nd grade", so you'll likely get your $ out of it with a 6 month or 1 year subscription. Plus, it's just entertaining and fun for your son's age group.