Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Need prep for new teacher / new school mtg tomorro

Tomorrow afternoon we will be sitting down with DS9's new teacher at his new public school. He brother started there too, but got pulled out after a few days after getting into a gifted charter last minute.

So she knows we are potentially squeaky wheels. The teacher seems great, but here's the deal:

The school district / school seem AWFUL. Maybe it's my expectations, but I'm annoyed. We got NO info from the school until the day before school started when we received teacher assignments and a list of school supplies. Going to Staples the day before the start of school was not a hassle AT ALL! I did manage to hear about an open house, but only because I kept calling the school and asking when we would get info. In the spring I asked if I could speak with faculty members about the 3rd and 4th grade curriculums and nobody ever called me. It is a uniform school and I had to spend a fair amount of time digging through the school website (with pages that haven't been updated in years) to find out what they needed to wear so I culd have it ready by the start of school. I have received absolutely zero info about academics. Just getting them enrolled took over a month because their computers were "down" for two weeks. We only got a copy of the school handbook yesterday, after 5 days of school, and it references other documents we have not received. We have gotten a few emails (that I had to proactively sign up for) but they come via the PTA - not directly from the school. It's great that the PTA does so much for the school, but I'm uncomfortable with the PTA being responsible for basic school operations. If my son needs more acceleration in math, do I call the PTA president?

My son was "certified gifted 99%" - whatever that means - by the school district when he applied for a different program. He is supposed to be pulled out for reading and math. But we have also been told that no assignments are permanent until after the 20th school day and according to my son nobody is pulled out for reading and math, they are all doing the same stuff.

So while I have no reason to think the teacher isn't a good teacher, I am appalled that the school is giving itself 20 days out of 180 to get it's sh*t together. So my son gets 89% of a mediocre fourth grade education? He's a very fast reader and his math is way, way above what's covered in the worksheets he's brought home. I don't mind him working below his level a lot of the time becasue his writing skills are weak and I feel like this is an opporuntiy to concentrate on that. But he's going to need significant acceleration in math and a way to productively spend his time when he has finished reading all his textbooks 3x over (which will probably be in about a week).

I'm hoping people here can tell me to get off my high horse and I can get calmed down before the meeting. I am also looking for specific practical advice on communicating to the teacher how quickly DS reads and absorbs and what his current math level is.

Would it be going overboard to do the following:

1. Bring a list of recently read books
2. Bring some examples of math work he has done
3. Ask if he can read his own books if he has "deadtime"

Not sure if #3 even makes sense, need more info about the classroom structure first.

I am also annoyed at the local school system, and full of foreboding about my son's initial teacher. The way that they apparently do things in the local school district is to assess all candidates for a grade skip in the first two weeks of school, and a multi-disciplinary team then issues a recommendation within a week or so after that, after which the skip may be accomplished.

This has benefits, I suppose, including relying on many different assessments of people within the system who have different types of experience, instead of heavily relying on just one assessment by a school psychologist. The more people on the team, too, the less weight a single teacher's recommendation will carry, helpful in the case of a skeptical teacher. A child is also assessed interacting with others and learning in a school environment, which might give a better idea of how he will actually function socially and academically if skipped. But there are also obvious drawbacks.

In my case, the school system seems so-so and the teacher seems to be openly skeptical that a grade skip would ever be useful. I'd rather be in your situation.

The "no assignments are permanent" bit makes me wonder if something similar is planned for your son.


I think that's a good way to view the 20-day period. I wouldn't worry about him being behind on the material, since he is a fast learner and the beginning material is probably going to contain a lot of review and at the most quite basic new stuff.

I think bringing specific information on achievement level is a good idea. You could also do a cheap online assessment, which might help: http://www.letsgolearn.com/lglsite/DOMA_Basic_Math_Skills/parents/

I would also ask for the materials from the accelerated classes, so that he can at least work through the workbooks etc. and doesn't get far behind, if you continue to be worried about that.

Since this is a new school, I agree that the first thing I would do is get the lines of communication open and listen, listen, listen. Take a lot of notes. Find out how they plan to handle your child and the timeline and what it all means. Find out the best time/way to contact the teacher. Find out when the pullout for math/reading will start and how it works. Ask who the pullout teacher is and an email address if possible. Ask if the teacher does cluster grouping for reading and math, i.e. try to gather general information that will help you understand what is possible.

What I didn't get from your post is whether the pullout program doesn't start for 20 days of school, or whether your child isn't going to the program for some reason but it is currently happening. If the former, so be it (a good topic to advocate for later on in life), but if it is the latter, I would find out specifically why and ask to have him start immediately. If the latter, once again, find out who the decision makers are and go directly to them.

Good luck and keep us posted. I know it is so challenging to deal with all of this,but it will be worth it for your son.

Thanks everyone. This is helpful - it is getting me focused on what I need to do instead of what I think other people should be doing.

I'm anxious about the timing not because I'm worried about my son getting behind in a month (although it's annoying that school is taking up all his time and interfering with his learning), but because I'm worried that he will develop a negative attitude about school and bad habits. 20 school days is a long time.

My strategy will be to gather information, not convey it. But I will make sure to arrange for follow up communication. The teacher has been responsive so far and I will get contact info for the gifted coordinator.

Catalana - I am not sure if the pullouts are taking place and he is not included or if they have not started. We have no idea what's going on. OTOH, if people aren't getting pulled out, then what is the gifted teacher doing all day? OTOH, my son doesn't seem to be aware of anything likse this going on.

I think everyone has brought up some good points. I would just add that it might be helpful to go in more with your new-to-the-school hat on rather than your advocating-for-special-educational-needs hat on, just for this first meeting. Or, at least start that way and adjust as needed based on what they say. It's always a good idea to put yourself in their shoes to help convey that you're wanting to work with them to educate your son by saying something like, "I know the first days of school are crazy for everyone and that it takes a bit to settle in to the new school year, but . . . ." Also, if you take the stance that you need their help figuring out how things are going to go this year, it makes them feel that you respect them as educators. Of course, if they say things you don't like then you absolutely have to get more in their face about things, but it's always good to start off with a light touch in a new relationship, which is what you're building with the school. Anyway, just my thoughts. YMMV!

I agree with the wonderful posts about putting on your 'investigative reporter' hat. But I would still put those items in my bag, just to have 'in case.'

If there is a gifted coordinator at your school, he or she is also a person you need to met with. Again, first visit is to investigate - especially that 99% gifted - what does that mean at this school?

Our school has no gifted coordinator and no gifted programing, so that's something to be grateful for.

It's hard not to 'be dissatisfied' with school 'in the abstract' - I suspect that most gifted children have Moms who themselves where gifted children and not well enough accomidated as elementary school children. So we have a backlog of frustrations and assumptions that we've held onto since childhood about the defiencies of schools. It's important not to let that leak through during your Advocacy.

One of the things I learned while watchin my son, now 14, grow, is that actually, school works really well for a large majority of students. Who knew?

Another thing to come to terms with - fast - is that it's the nature of Gifties (you and me) to see the glass 1.458 ml empty. Our big brains are so good at imagining a better way and because of our big imaginations, this better way seems so real and appealing. This is really a form of perfectionism, here we call it ODP, outer-directed perfectionism. It's a major cause of heartache amoung Gifties of all ages that we get so caught up in our visions and don't fully develop our ability to 'be grateful for what is.' Maybe we could learn to be more forgiving of the 'what is' of ourselves too, ok?

I hope this helps.

We did the 'reading when he finishs his other work' in 4th grade. It's a 2 edged sword. OOH, he was much less of a classroom disturbance. OTOH, he rushed through his work to get to the reading - bad habit. And it does encourge isolation. If possible, I'd encourage you to aim higher - like that he be in a classroom that mets his educational needs.

If you school has a website, you may be able to see a school motto. Memorize it and practice using it in a sentence 9 ways. Will come in handy for future meetings: "Since I know your school goal is XXXXX, I know that you are just as interested as I am in what's best for my son's social and educational development and thoughfully consider my plan A."

KWIM?

Good Luck,
Grinity

The worry in the back of my mind in reading their "wait 20 days" game plan is that I've been around the block too many times and have run into situations where schools put off meeting a child's needs until it is suddenly "too late." We had that situation in 4th grade with my eldest. They had IQ scores and WJ-III scores that were 1.5 yrs old when we came in. They also had 3 month old ITBS scores that were in the 99th percentile for all subjests (except math, which was at the 92nd) and at the 99th for the composite.

They wanted to wait for the MAPS testing to determine her math placement and left her in the regular math class until that could happen. When those scores came in (at the 97th percentile for math and 99th for reading), the accelerated math class was too full and they couldn't move her. She spent that year teaching the other kids math for the most part. Math is not her strong subject, so she really should never be in the place where she is so far beyond the rest of the class that she is serving as a teacher's assistant.

I'd worry that they are delaying until it is too late to make any moves b/c he's missed "too much" of the math for the next grade up, for instance, and they no longer "can" subject accelerate.

I realize that going in guns blazing doesn't always work too well. We've had instances where it hasn't. However, we've also had instances like this year where I was prepared and planning to pull dd9 to homeschool and let them know as much. I told them what things they could fix to make us reconsider and those things happened b/c they were interested in keeping her.

I'd try going in calmly with whatever achievement data you have (even if they already have it as well) and with a list of requests:

I want him placed in the ___ grade math class, etc. I would like a response on these requests by ___ [date]. That way you can at least count on having a yes or no by a certain date and make decisions accordingly.

It went OK. The teacher rushed in with an outline of how they spend their days and that eased my anxiety somewhat. The 20 days thing is in case they end up with way over/under subscribed classes. In which case they would have to reallocate teachers / students. OK. Obviously that would be unfortunate, but there's no fighting it.

The gifted pull-outs for reading and math start the 13th, with some orientation before that. They are planning on having my son in those groups.

BUT.....the gifted math is the same Investigations 4th grade curriculum, with some additional material. I don't think that's going to cut it. My son already knows the fourth grade math well and most of the fifth. SO I said, "I know you aren't his teacher for math, but do you know how it is handled if a child is beyond the grade level curriculum?" She said I would have to talk to the principal and the teacher. I thought it was interesting that she mentioned the principal before the teacher. Made me think this has come up before.

I have an email in to the gifted coordinator and I will shoot one off to the gifted teacher.

If anyone has any comments on how to handle this from here, or the Investigations curriculum, I would be appreciative. The worksheets he has been bringing home are not appropriate. I get what they are trying to do, but my son doesn't need to study an egg carton to know that 2x6 = 12. I have an advanced degree in math myself and I've worked with him a little, so I think I have a decent idea of what he's capable of.

The other thing is - my younger son is in a gifted school were he will be studying the NC fourth grade curriculum as a third grader. I am in hopes that both kids will be there next year. So obviously, from my standpoint, the ideal solution is to have my son in fifth grade gifted math as a fourth grader.

Anyone BTDT?

Hi Jane,

I can relate somewhat. Although we don't have gifted pullout they are offering an advanced math class this year in fifth grade and my son is placed in that class. I wondered as well what exactly that meant. My son's main homeroom teacher said they cover the sixth grade curriculum but I am skeptical. Our district has no gifted programming and I find it hard to believe they are going to provide this group of children with 6th grade curriculum. Since we are only in day 2 of school I have not seen any homework etc.
It does not seem to me that offering the regular 4th grade curriculum plus a few extras is a "gifted" math class. I will be interested to hear what you find out from the gifted teacher/principal etc.

Breakaway

My fifth grader is in a small group of kids who are being taught 6th grade curriculum so it does happen.