Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums GT Research A correlation between above level tests and IQ scores?

Hi WG -
Your wish is my command ((wink))

It seems to me that above level tests could be used as an inexpensive "foot in the water" in place of IQ scores, which are expensive and distrusted by schools. Does anyone know of any research correlating kids with higher than 1SD scores compared to the agemates who took the above level test and HG or PG scores on IQ tests?

Trinity

There does need to be a better "screening" tool. The only thing that worries me about using something other than IQ tests is they won't necessarily help pick out the 2e kiddos.

Can't answer your question re: SD and HG or PG scores.

The interesting part is that IQ tests claim that they weren't developed to differentiate amoung the highest IQ scores. Talent searches were.
Curious, no?
Trinity

given that schools are really more interested in finding needs at the other end of the scale, then it isn't surprising as schools are the customer the IQ test companies go after.

i gotta find a talent search for my youngins, who are gettin on my nerves tonight with their rivalry in high gear....grrrrrrr.

JHU SCAT????

JHU - John Hopkins University's CTY, The are the local talent search for most of the NorthEast USA.

CTY - Center for Talented Youth

SCAT - an achievement or aptitiude test. When it's given Nationally to, say, 5th graders, it's an achievement test, but it's used by JHU for children 2 grades younger than the suggested group as an above-level aptitude test.

Hence my oft-repeated: "It's not that he knows as much as a 7th graders, it's that he's ready to learn what kids aren't usually ready to learn until 7th grade."

I may have some of the details wrong - so corrections please - most of the insight I got into above level tests is from reading the Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual, which I think is one of the best "Gifted 201" books around, independent of one's feelings about grade skipping.

Smiles -
Trinity

is there a way to take the SCAT if you don't live in the region where it's used for talent searches?

i'd love to have my boys take it.

WG
If you don't have SCAT in your area, your talent search probably uses another similar above level ability test. Which region are you in?
Trin

Willa Gayle,

The Prometric testing centers are located all over the place (do you have a Sylvan Learning Center near you?). I still had to drive 3 hrs each way, but my boys were very appreciative and we made a day of it. http://www.prometric.com/Default.htm
The way to "get" to test is through the talent searches. In order to get into a talent search to register for a test, your child either has to have IQ test data, tested high on standardized tests that schools give in the spring, or get a teacher's recommendation/portfolio. Once you meet that criteria and a small fee, you're given the opportunity to take "advanced level" tests. I don't think you can just register to take the test on your own. The SCAT is expensive (maybe $80) plus johns hopkins fee of maybe $25. The test is short (about 45 minutes or less). This is a good start for 2-6th grades. The EXPLORE test used by Duke TIP and Rocky Mt Talent Search is for 5th-6th graders, takes about 2.5 hrs, and costs $56 (plus talent search fee). After 6th grade, it's SAT/ACT, but going through the talent searches is a good idea because they give you a report showing how your kid did compared to the rest of the population. Very cool.

Here's info on correlating IQ to testing

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10120.aspx

Cym -
I just walked a IRL friend trough JHU talent search SCAT sign up. They have a parent reccomendation option. Our State tests don't give percentiles, just a top level which is in the to 16 or 22%, but the child did better than DS10 on his tests, so I advised mom to "take the next step." Interestingly, this little boy was a very late talker, late reader, but always very noticibly bright and "different." A few weeks ago we watched "The Lake House" on DVD, at 9 he sat through it and enjoyed it very much. I'm so impressed.

Trinty

There are many positive things that come out of taking advanced level tests, particularly SATs/ACTs. First is the "out-of-the-box" experience for the bright kid. Something different. Second is the feedback from the report they send telling about how the child compares to older kids taking the same test. Good for self-esteem and reality check. Third is practice and experience taking tests before they become part of the "permanent record"--scores will not appear on your child's record if taken before 9th grade. So, there's no pressure and kids can learn the process of test-taking and get comfortable with it. We all know that test scores influence which college you get into and scholarships (not an inconsequential factor when one has 4 children). Also, if their test scores qualify, the kid will be eligible for a huge array of summer programs/institutes. My son didn't have to take qualifying tests for EPGY or selective high school based on his scores (streamlines the process). The talent searches also send all kinds of books and information about programs for gifted kids to him, which are interesting to look through even if we're not going to do them at this time. Finally, somehow fancy prep schools put him on their mailing list and we've received several "invitations" to apply for scholarships to boarding schools across the country. It is fun to look at the brochures and talk to my son about them. He's not interested though. I had such a disfunctional home and would have jumped at opportunities like these, but I'm comforted that my son has no desire to get away from home at this point.

Wow - Cym! sounds like your son did really well! congradulations. How good do you suppose one has to do to be invited to apply for fancy scholarships at fancy boarding schools? We have a few that are near us.

WG,

I just sent in my son's application for the EXPLORE test in Jan.
I saw MN test locations listed on the forms (most were public schools-testing is on two Sat in Jan and Feb).



http://www.act.org/explore/ests/

WG.
The correct talent search name is the �Belin-Blank Exceptional Student Talent Search (BESTS)�.
The Belin-Blank Center at the University of Iowa conducts the Belin-Blank Exceptional Student Talent Search (BESTS) which utilizes the EXPLORE test for grades 4-6. It has a different test for lower grades and uses the ACT for higher grades.

http://www.education.uiowa.edu/belinblank/talent-search

You can apply on-line or request an application form.

Sorry for the confusion.

hi Trin-
The test used in our area is the EXPLORE. From what I've read in this thread about it, I don't think Mite would do well on it. My understanding is the SCAT might be a better choice for him -- more about where he is ready to learn rather than what he already knows. He doesn't do well on achievement based testing.

I'm confused. So they have to qualify to take the SCAT? How do they qualify?

I'm sorry. I'm sure all this information is here somewhere. I'm just feeling overwhelmed. I'm not sure what to do first. Should we focus on getting his LD under better management then go for the gifted stuff or will going for the gifted stuff help him deal with the LD things?

LOL Dottie -
I'm glad that they have the parent nomination route - some kids are just not going to do well with age level NCLB tests - too dull! Likewise, some kids prefer to mess with the heads of their tester than comply and get the good grade. I think it's terrific that any parent that feels the need too can plunk down their Benjamin and get the test - not like in the public school system where so many gate keeper and vultures block the way! I hope financial aid is offered for kids who's parents can't afford the fees, but compared with IQ testing, this is a bargan. Also, for kids who tend to ceiling out on IQ tests, it's more accurate - or at least it will be until it becomes the popular thing to do and a wider range of parents start sending their kids to take it through the parent nomination route. ((wink))
Trinity

Hi Willa Gayle,

I was reading your email asking what to address first, LD or gifted. I get panicky, too, about not be vigilant enough. Even if I find it hard to take my own advice, I'll offer it to you: Relax. The testing is just an extra. It's cool for them, and offers some opportunities, but it's not that important. Especially if your son is younger than 5th grade. I know my son did the SCAT test last year as a 2nd grader "just for fun". Even though he did very well, we're not opting for distance learning (at this time) or commuter camps (we live in the middle of nowhere), so it's just for the experience. I'll have him do the EXPLORE in 5th grade and maybe SAT or ACT in 7th. I'd work on the LD first and maybe consider it when things seem under control (is there really such a fairy-tale time in the lives of moms of PG kids?)
Cym

Thanks. It's all so new to me. You know, I'm not scared for Mite as an adult. It is just getting him through this complicated education, LD and gifted stuff with his sweet personality intact that has me concerned. I am focused on his LD right now because that's where the school is neglecting him the most...or is it the giftedness....maybe its the social stuff.....


YIKES!!8^()!!!

WG -
Mite is Mite is Mite - there is no Gifted Stuff and LD Stuff, there is only a small person in front of you. I know that it's useful (to a point) to identify the issues, but it seems to me that the only way to make it all work, is to adress the individual child. Every moment you have a chance to move things forward, or not. Most of the chances will always slip through our hands, but I believe that enough moments greatly increase our chidren's odds of growing up whole. Then there is the world that they will grow up into, in need of a lot of care and thought.

Then there is ourselves - inescapably.

Rest Well, Sweet WG,
Trinity

Hi Willa Gayle,

To take the SCAT, you need to first register with the talent search (jhu cty). http://www.cty.jhu.edu/ts/acceptabletests.html
Look it up you'll be able to do an application (with standardized test results over 95% or teacher's or parent's recommendation). You'll have to pay a fee. They'll give your son a testing number (ours was sent by mail a few days later) and then you find the Prometric testing center closest to you http://securereg3.prometric.com/ProfessionalHome.aspx
They are good about having weekend testing times. They have a fee, too. If you're not going to use Johns Hopkins programs but are interested in closer programs (Northwestern U.), first check which tests they require (I think everyone else uses the EXPLORE). Cym