Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional teaching spanish via RS to DS w/ speech delay

I am hs-ing my DS5. He is at almost 2nd gade level in LA/reading and math...without doing much. He also has expressive language disorder, and is behind about 1.5 yrs NT speech-wise. He is progressing fairly well with his SLP.

Here is my question now that you have a little background...

I went to a homeschool expo this weekend and was thinking about Rosetta Stone. My DS has been asking me what the Spanish words for things are a lot. I took Spanish in grade and high school, and exempted in college; so I have some retension in my old age (ha). DS's speech therapist thinks that teaching him to speak Spanish will confuse his English grammar that isn't there all the way yet. I didn't mention RS; and I don't think she has ever seen how it works; and I beleieve that she thinks that I mean having him take a class. I was wondering what your thoughts are? I was considering Rosetta Stone, and not a class because he loves being on the computer. Isn't Rosetta Stone more memorization for conversation than the actual nitty gritty of understanding the grammar? Also, does it have basic object identification as well - he would like that? I did a demo at the expo; but it wasn't in depth. Anyone using it? Feel free to knock me down on this.:) I was thinking that it may help with some articulation if he has to speak into a mic as well. Thank you!

There's very little specific grammar instruction in Rosetta Stone. That's actually something I don't like about it personally. I'm not sure whether that's a pro or a con for your son. I wouldn't call it memorization exactly either. The idea is that you learn language by using it, not by memorizing lists of vocab. You hear it, you see what it refers to (The Spanish words for "the girl is drinking" are next to a picture of a girl drinking water, for example), you say it, you remember it. It's supposed to be the way people learn their native language.

There is microphone use, and you can see a graph of your pronunciation. If it's not close enough to the correct pronunciation, you have to do it over to "pass" that part.

I have to note that the greatest help I had in understanding the specifics of English grammar and the names for terms like predicate nominative and subordinate clause was when I took a foreign language. I was much more aware of grammar when trying to put together sentences in a foreign language that had different rules.

I don't know how/if that interacts the 2E issues, but I'm not persuaded that learning Spanish will interfere with his learning grammar. I think I'd want some evidence, or at least a persuasive argument.

All of this is with the caveat that I'm not an expert, nor do I play one on TV.

Do your sons use it though? Do/did they like it? Do you recommend something else? Since I learned spanish in the classroom and wished that I could have spoken it better, the speaking part appeals to me. I think that you need to learn conjugation in the classroom and that that can come later along with more vocab (and I had that down, and can still do it); but I am not worried about that for him right now. I agree that I need a persuasive argument for or against and am open to both. It isn't cheap. I don't know what other's thoughts are. I could just put sticky notes around our house with Spanish words for him.;)

p.s. congrats on DYS for both of your sons!!!!!

We only used Arabic, which I don't speak *at all*!

I wouldn't buy it for the kids unless I were either pretty serious about learning the language myself from scratch (and I wasn't about the Arabic) or I already spoke it. Since you already speak it, I think you could support your DS in using it. I just couldn't do that for my DS with Arabic.

It is something you need to do regularly. Once a week probably wouldn't cut it. Every day for 5 minutes a day would be better than half an hour once a week (or even half an hour twice a week.)

If you're still on, you might check this out: https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1091

It was recommended to me over RS for kids by several people I trust, and it's deeply discounted. It expires NOW though. I think you have a day!

P.S. Thanks for the congratulations.

I haven't used RS for my daughter who is learning Spanish but she goes to a Spanish Immersion program. I have to disagree with your speech therapist because learning a second language tends to concrete your understanding of grammar in your native language. I would be curious to read what her/his argument is based on. I know learning a second language can slow down a child's own language but this is a short term issue and one that experts argue is a viable concern when the child is younger than 2 yrs of age. But this does not consider children with 2E concerns.

Have you looked at other options besides RS? We have Muzzy and though I don't think someone will become fluent with the program alone; it is something my child enjoys.

I'm not very bi-lingual even though I live in a bilingual town on the South Texas border of Mexico and have had a Mexican last name for several years. �If I try to talk to someone with very little English I'm told I sound like I'm talking to a two year old. �Well, it's the best I can do. �But I can read Spanish beautifully. �I'm told I sound like a native speaker when I read out loud. �I hear the language, I just don't even try to use spanish very often. �I'll never get good at it that way. �It's hard for me to listen to a conversation in Spanish for too long in one sitting. �For some reason it clicks better when I see familiar phrases in writing. �That's when I hear how it sounds with my memory but with comprehension. �For example I've known one guy for years I thought everyone was calling "waido" for his light skin. �I just saw his name in writing and it's "Guerro" (whey-roe). Because the d's and r's�aren't always harsh the two sounds were too similar to discern to my American ears in this case. �(the rolled R's aren't always held long, just sometimes.). �But now that I know that I can easily say it the same way everyone else does. �It's the same with common phrases. �I really don't get it until I see it. � But.., if I just saw it and had never heard it I don't think it would click the same way. �
I recommend watching cartoons in Spanish (if you the Spanish channel in your cable package you could watch Ice Age or whatever). �You could ask at the library or Blockbuster video store for kindergarten books written in Spanish and kids videos in Spanish. �Then it's not like you're reading word for word what you're hearing, but you'll hear and see many of the same phrases over time. �That's do-able if he's reading at a second grade level. �This way you're not committing to invest in a program but you can reward his curiosity and explore the Spanish language slowly over time. �I also recommend using your own Spanish by taking him to a Mexican restaurant where they have mexican waiters and making polite conversation with the waiter and placing your order in Spanglish. �Encourage him to order his drink using a Spanish word - leche, lemonada, jugo de manzanna. �It's been my experience if you use Spanglish they answer in Spanglish not pure Spanish so you can talk to them and it seems to make them happy that you're trying to learn their language.
It seems to be easier to make Spanish sound right in kind of a sing-song voice which he can hear the sound of using Spanish cartoons or movies without subtitles. �

P.S. To make my post even longer; of course "Spanish" depends on where you're from. �When I first arrived here I couldn't tell the difference between a Texican and a Mexican if they were both speaking Spanish, but now I can. �(sometimes it's obvious by the clothes if it was a flashy dresser from either side). �I can't put my finger on the difference, but I can hear the difference now. �And obviously an El Salvodorian or a Puerto Rican would sound even different. �But to make Mexican Spanish fluently you will want to say things less perfectly. Like instead of "agua" the word is really "awah". �And like in the example above if you blend the sounds smoothly inside of a word saying it softly and don't quite connect the tongue to the ridge in the roof of your mouth even though your tongue goes almost there, you move on to the next sound right before you finish making the perfect "D" you will make a more fluent sounding word. �Sometimes Spanish sounds very harsh, almost like Russian or something. �This is usually to emphasize what you're saying but a few people talk like that all the time. �Like perro is more like pedo but with the soft unformed d mentioned above. �(I know, pedos is "farts", but there's a slight difference in the sound and the context of the conversation will help the sound come out right.) �Unless you want an emphasis on "dog" in what you're trying to say, then it would use the the thick rolled R they teach you with in Spanish class.�
Like I said, just go practice on a waiter. �They don't mind if you sound like a Gringo and they'll help you become more fluent.�

Pedo is a running joke with my in laws. My FIL's mother is from Mexico and he grew up in a Spanish speaking house, but my MIL is 100% Polish and grew up in a famous little community outside of San Antonio but strangely enough, did not know Spanish. When they would get together with his side of the family they would encourage MIL to speak in Spanish and always added perro into the sentence because she always said it as pedo. Even today when my FIL wants to taunt her, he asks her to say perro. He always gets a quick slap and told to shut up. It doesn't help that DD is fluent in Spanish and has no problem saying perro. More salt in her wound, but she takes it like a trooper.

I know nothing about Rosetta Stone, but my DS also has/had an expressive language delay (he's ASD) and he loved learning Spanish in preschool. I do not think it hindered his speech therapy...in fact I think it helped. It got him speaking more and thinking about words and communication. He would answer his speech therapist in Spanish sometimes (which she did not know) which made speech therapy a little bit more fun for him (but I doubt for the therapist....) So, while it was a little aggravating for the speech therapist at times, it actually got him utilizing more vocabulary which was a major goal of ours! Nan

The difference is in the "e" peh-r(d)o for dog, pAY-(soft d)o for fart. �It's the difference between "eh" and "AY" (not sustained long) that she's not hearing. �Like the phrase "Puro pedos" the main difference is between the u and the e. �That phrase is a way to say "that's BS" that's mild enough for a grandmother to use. �
I just don't want to try to learn Spanish because I only understand 30% of what I'm hearing and can say 10% of what I'm thinking. �I know, there's a cure for that.

If you want to make it natural use Spanglish then you can carry on longer conversations together using Spanish words without having to constantly stall the conversation trying to come up with a word for what you're saying. �You just keep talking and if there's a Spanish word on the tip of your tongue for what you're trying to say use it. �

I am just coming back here...laughing. How did this turn into a pedo conversation?!:)

Thank you ladies for all of your commments! This week was our first real immersion of homeschooling; so I have been exhausted, but happily.

I cannot really speak it very well (conversationally); but I can read it. He is interested in learning Spanish words for things. I think that reading Spanish books to him (since I know how to read it) and giving him Spanish words on demand, etc, and acting on your suggestions may be better for now, unless I can get an amazing deal on RS or something. I haven't tried Muzzy; but have heard of it. I haven't seen a demo which is most likely available. I will check it out. Thanks for the suggestion, K'sMom. I want something that he won't think of as work.

NanRos, my concern was that Spanish grammar is off order-wise from English, plus the general shortness of the phraseology. eg.."?Comprende?" "Do you understand?" -> we are trying to get him to say ALL of his words, speaking grammatically correct before he speaks slang. I totally agree about getting more vocab, practicing articulation, and just speaking more in general. It's ALL good! That is why I thought it was a good idea to begin with. His SLP is really great and very open to my suggestions and ideas revolving around what he is currently interested in. She is very creative and actually has him read his own directions, etc. She believes, as I do, that it is helping with his speaking. She is just worried about the grammar order more than anythng else, I believe. She wants him speaking correctly in our native tongue...me too.

La Texican, thank you for your tips. There is a Spanish speaking swim instructor at his lessons that he really likes (and the instructor likes him as well); and DS would love to say funny things to in Spanish. So that may help as well.

Thanks to all again!

Mom 0405. It's because when you leave the conversation turns to farts and "piojo's" (lice or cooties) because that's as far as our Spanish, or maybe maturity level, has progressed.
Mira, cantalo con these cd's and you'll know more than Selena did before her maid got jealous. Viva la musica.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/190-3449192-5346017?a=B0001NDYFO

Mom0405: Just from our one child's experience...it did not interfere with the order of words in English. He had Spanish for a whole year while doing speech therapy (at age 5 like yours) and it did not affect him learning English grammar.

(Also, I personally learned Spanish immersion style while living in Honduras, and doing it that way, you can't "line the words up" to evenly match noun for noun, verb for verb...it just goes.)

Nan

I don't know if you will be able to find a demo for Muzzy but you should be able to search youtube for it. You could at least see a part of the program and decide from there. If you have a facebook account you could 'like' muzzy. They offer some free dvds every once and a while to people via their facebook account.

thank you for the humor, suggestions and advice, as always, ladies!

LaTex: This may be great. My DS loves to sing; although the words aren't always correct.:) I'll share if I hear some funny "rendition."

NanRos, Did your DS use anything at home while having it in pre-k?

K's Mom: I signed up for a demo lesson. It is supposed to be sent to my email account; so we'll see.:) If anyone can find something needed out there, it's me.:)