Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment TalentIgniter (Dr. Ruf)

Oh, I will also add that it never pays to assume that everyone is using the same definition of PG. Ruf's scale, the various IQ tests, and DYS requirements do not line up neatly. Personally, I like the Davidson definition of "beyond the capacity of the current testing instruments to measure accurately" because a kid who fits that bill is almost certainly in need of some sort of special educational attention, but that isn't unanimously accepted as a definition. There are certainly level 4s and even some level 3s in DYS, not just level 5s. <shrug> The kids need help, so I personally don't see a problem with that.

A friend was just telling me that a tester who is experienced with testing HG+ kids recently told her that her child isn't PG because she doesn't have a 180 IQ. The WISC only goes to 160-ish, even with extended scoring! A different tester is sure the child is PG. Clearly Tester #1 has a more restrictive definition of PG than Tester #2.

Who's right? It depends entirely on how one defines the term PG. That the gifted/testing community(s) aren't all together on this issue only adds to the confusion.

Same here. It was my very first book about gifted children I read. I was quite shocked by the discovery that not only was my older one gifted but he was much more than MG. I enjoyed the anecdotal evidence much more than Ruf's list of milestones. Reading what other parents had to say and comparing my child to theirs was an eye opening experience. It was exactly what I needed at that time.

I, like others don't buy into her way of basing LOG on early milestones, but I do like the idea of different LOGs and the fact that the needs of MG and PG are not exactly the same.

If I remember it correctly both of my DYS fit nicely into the Level 4 category when they were around the age of 4. I based more decision more on the anecdotal evidence than the lists. It has been a while since I opened the book, perhaps it's time to see what I would think about it now.

BTW Was it only me or were there others who were slightly surprised by the LOGs Dr. Ruf assigned to her own children?


I too would suggest the book just to see what other parents dealt with, what they children used to do, what problems they faced. It's really interesting from that point of view.

That said I could see myself paying for the test way, way back, when I knew close to nothing about gifted children.

I have huge issues with the levels...but I agree with Kriston that they can be useful. In particular, they were helpful in making DH see that DD is gifted, and likely HG+.

We did participate in the beta test. Honestly, I think that even if one believes in the levels one can probably get a better idea of where one's child fits in by reading the book. The online system, by it's very nature, focuses on a very few developmental skills, which, as we all know, are not the whole picture of a child. But, if you want to convince a reluctant spouse, and you don't want to read the book, that could be worth $45. We did have results that were in line with what we expected (though, to our amusement, we did it twice with oddly different distributions).

I also think that there is a risk that anyone familiar with the levels will "remember" milestones that will place the child at the LOG that the parent believes the child belongs at. It's just the nature of memories of things that happened years ago that, unless you've got them written down, it is so easy to convince yourself that they happened at a slightly different time than when they really happened. And it is also easy to interpret many of Ruf's milestones differently. I imagine that a person who wants a child to be gifted will apply a much more liberal definition to "plays with a shape sorter" than someone who is hoping the child is not gifted, for example.

Okay, I've babbled long enough.

An accurate baby book that noted many of the same things that Ruf notes was really necessary when we walked through the levels. I think that's a big drawback, particularly for second and later children. I didn't even bother to try to figure out the Ruf LOG with DS6 because I just hadn't paid as much attention to those things.

I find the whole thing to be problematic and I would actively discourage parents from this service. I feel very fortunate that I read this book AFTER our child had already had good assessments and after he was old enough to have revealed a high level of acheivement. If we'd relied on this when he was a preschooler we absolutely would have been lead down the wrong path.

According to the book our child is maybe a level two or three. According to comprehensive educational evaluation and acheivement (DYS, over 700 on every section of the SAT by age 11, etc.) he's PG without a doubt. So, I can only say it not at all difficult for me to imagine a parent of a preschooler doing this test and thinking "whew level two, nothing to worry about" when in reality they were dealing with a very different situation. This may delay a parent from seeking out needed and appropriate testing and educational planning.

Also, I just have to say I find the title of "You can find out how smart your child is today" to be totally deceptive.

I read the book, looked at the assessment but haven't done it. I have a DYS who is a strong level 4 with some spikey 5s. BUT... and that's a big BUT... he is only a strong level 4 with any milestones that come after age 2.

My DS is a preemie (just by one month but born sickly with an APGAR score of 0 and a 10 day stay in the nursery). His medications made him basically comatose or screaming bloody murder for months. He didn't roll, sit, look at books, watch TV or really anything at all until 7 mo when he came off the medications. It was obvious within a month that he would have been a very attentive baby but he was too ill.

I have an accurate record because we were keeping one for medical issues. If I subtract 6 months to a year off of every milestone to account for his slowed development, he's easily a high Level 4 with more 5s.

$45 will get you halfway to testing with our university's ed.psych program in training... not the best results but better in my own head than any online assessment...

I don't know about paying the money to get the online report...but reading the info about levels of giftedness helped convince me to have my son tested. I wouldn't rely on historical information as a diagnostic tool, but reading the characteristics was good for pushing me to pursue official testing because I was wishy-washy in my head. Is he gifted or not? back and forth. Nan

I too am one of the ones the book worked for, as dd falls fair and square within the levels, which also correspond with her testing - though I'd also agree the anecdotes were much more telling than the lists. I also found the book significantly more useful than the online lists.

I don't know that her sample is really big enough to make definitive statements about LOG, but they were useful for me to fill out our test results. They were also useful to me in the early stages of thinking about dd being gifted and, because it matched what was going on for dd, it convinced me it was something I needed to follow up.

In terms of this test, I don't know that it is something I would pay for. I probably would have prior to dd doing her SB5 because I was so hungry for confirmation that it wasn't all in my head. I think I would have still been unconvinced though, given it's online, it's me trying to remember etc.

Wow - now I wish we had that as a local option! Dr. Ruf is within probably 10-15 miles of us, but we just can't justify the expense as homeschoolers. Especially now that we've seen 2 years of consistent PG level achievement scores that only cost us $100.

I will say even though I'm not a fan of the Ruf levels for my own kids or necessarily this online tool, I am a fan of Dr. Ruf and what she's done for the local GT community. I think all parents just need to read parenting and education books with a grain of salt and realize that their mileage may vary.

Kimck- you could probably fly to me in CA and get it done for cheaper than Ruf's going rate :-)