Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Advice on grade skip

Mia - I agree. I don't think my DS is even slightly academically competitive. He is just moving at his own pace with his own curiosity, as he is able. He doesn't pay attention to what other kids are doing. There are a few kids in his class that are more competitive (my book is harder than your book), but it doesn't seem to be GT related at all. I was like you in school. I definitely was not competitive or had a strong internal drive to do well. I just did what I had to do to get through. Had I actually been engaged and challenged in elementary school, maybe that would have been different.

I actually think the school Ren mentioned above sounds interesting in their screening process. Are they IQ testing preschoolers? I don't think they are necessarily looked for the most PG kids. It sounds like they are looking for a very bright child that fits a certain profile, since they require multiple interviews. Actually, some of the most PG kids might not perform well in an interview depending on how it's formatted. I could see this being a turn off to the parent of a preschooler and might not be a fit for every HG-PG child.

((Humor Alert - Did 'Questions' Post? I missed it? Where are you, dear?))

Ah! is competitiveness on of the characteristics of giftedness?


I've seen that on those check lists, but not IRL. Lovely to think about though - here's my personal take on it.

I think that competitiveness, when it occurs in gifted people, can be part of their OEs and quite intense. I also think that androgeny is more common amoung gifted folks, so that women who are competitive-natured are more likely to express it in ways that are traditionally reserved for men if they are gifted.

Justice-loving is also on the check lists, and while not universal, certianly something I see IRL. For males, in this culture, at this time, it is especially difficult to be Justice-loving and competitive both, although my DS certianly is a breathing example. For DH, he is fiercely competitive but only with himself, so he says. He hate games. For me, I would say that I've got a 'dominant' type personality, with the Ahisma, that I usually enjoy competition if it's clearly for 'fun' and all the participants are enjoying the 'thrill and agony.' I do get a special thrill from beating my adult male family members in chess. Different from the excitement of playing younger players and celebrating what a jam we've gotten ourselves into. I think that blend is more allowable with this time and place's female role expectations. Health Care is a great field for we who have both because we have permission to do a lot of 'bossing around while helping/doing good/ and teaching all in the same day.' Certian Immigrant and Working Class perspectives help us loud females a lot as well. My grandma was the Mamma ruling the home, wooden spoon in hand, delivering dinner and disipline with the same impliment. My own Mom is more colleged, but the temper and attitude of the rightful ruler is still there, when there aren't any guests around to see.

What I don't have is the need to prove that I'm good through making pointing out that someone else is less able. I sometimes mourn my lack of this because it makes me feel so out of step with others. Why can't I get with the program? But that is rare. Usually I'm sure I'm on the right path, at least for me. See, Dominant, but not competitive. I definitly feel good when I feel I've made the world a better place, even if only slightly, even if for only one family.

So there are my thoughts on competition. I love to hear more about the role competition has played in the lives of your family members.

Smiles,
Grinity

Sorry, forgot someone asked about the test for the gifted preschool. I had asked some questions before so I thought it was covered.

The elementary school run by Hunter College (not public but free) used SB4 I believe. I could be wrong and it might be SB5, but I think it is 4. Then they run a 2 hour group session to choose the kids they want. Looking for reasoning skills I have heard.

The public elementary gifted school used to also use SB but public pressure on the school board made them go to the OLSAT but they do not have a second round anymore. It is top scorers.

Competitiveness. I have been known to be competitive, but I was also a serious figure skater in past days. So I think if you are an athlete it has to be there. And there is a hidden need to win at strategic games. Just an internal pat on the back that I could win.

My daughter (is this inherited) is very competitive already at 3. I am trying to work with that because losing at Candyland can be very upsetting. Not running as fast as the child 4 inches taller can be upsetting. So this is something I am wroking on with her. Getting there in baby steps.

Ren

Competition - more questions:
Introvert v. Extrovert
2E twist
Auditory Sequential Learners v. Non-Linear thinkers.

Hi Wren,

When my dd was three she was also very competitive. And like your dd she got very upset at losing at Candyland. There were times when I had to put said game in the closet for a week after a big tantrum. She needed to learn to be a good loser just as much as being a good winner.

This weekend my dd had her first swim meet. When she was out of the water the timers gave her her official time. She got a big smile on her face because her time was 5 seconds faster than her best practice time. She didn't care what other kid's times were or even what place she got (she got 3rd). She only cared that she did better than she had done before. Definitily one of my proudest moments! (this girld didn't know how to swim four months ago). She is learning that practice and effort pay off.

As for the gifted private school being too competitive. If all the children there are similarly gifted then then children's experiences would be no different than an average student in an average school setting. Isn't that what we are striving for? Aren't we fighting for our kids to be allowed the same opportunity to struggle and succeed with some effort?

Competitiveness -- Wren, my ds is ridiculously competitive. He's grown out of it somewhat (he's 5), but it's still there. To work on it, we taught him the word "persevere," and it's a word we use at least 5 times a day at our house. If he's struggling or losing at something, we ask him what he needs to do to succeed -- and he knows he needs to persevere. He's been much more willing to try with a word to describe the effort in a positive light.

As for outright losing -- for that, all we do is the standard "Did you have fun playing? Well, good! We play to have fun, and we usually have fun whether we win or lose -- but it's really fun to win, isn't it?" That's actually worked quite well after about a thousand repeats.

Or maybe he's just outgrown it somewhat, I don't know! It is extremely normal for children that age, gifted or not, to be upset over losing. We all know it is more fun when you win.

At the beginning of each school year, I let GS's teachers know some of the difficulties GS has had to go through. Not to have him let off the hook, but to ask them to apply discipline knowing he might have different motivation for his actions. One of his traits is 'Justice Loving'. I had assumed he had this trait due to being treated badly as a toddler. His teacher this year identified that trait, and a few others, as GT traits. He is also competitive and really hates losing so we've had to work on who's version of 'Justice' he is going by. This teacher also has an 8 year old daughter in the math GT program with GS, so evidently she has first-hand experience with GT kids.
This board has been useful in trying to separate out what are inborn traits of a GT child and what might be learned behaviors.

Very happy that we got the terms. I knew someone here would have them.

Thank you Grinity.

Ren

The "justice loving" quality is an interesting one. We have that one bad at our house. All 4 of us. DS and DD sometimes loudly proclaim injustices they see out in public. It doesn't matter if it is any of their business. DS has a real issue with smokers.

Yup, we're justice-lovers here, too. We tend to play games with no winners or losers or we play typically competitive games without keeping score. It suits our temperament better than competing. I'm not opposed to healthy, friendly competition, mind you. I was a jock when I was growing up. But I think focusing on competition at too young an age isn't very healthy.

DS6 went through a competitive phase, but don't most kids do that around age 4 or 5? He threw tantrums if he lost a board game, and he bragged about being the smartest one in his class (ugh) and raced to finish reading more books at preschool than his friend, but he didn't so much care to compete otherwise. Happily, this phase passed quickly!

So for my part, FWIW, I suspect competitiveness is a developmental phase. I certainly don't think it's necessarily a sign of giftedness, especially past age 4 or 5.