Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy appropriate playdates

(The helocopter mom thread inspired this. I didn't want to hijack her thread.)

I was wondering about how other Mom's control/monitor playdates? How do you get comfortable your kids are safe without feeling so overbearing?

I think of myself as a protective Mom and not every potential playdate would be ok with me. This becomes very uncomfortable because I feel so far from the norm.

I tell anyone who invites my kids that at least the first time my kids go somewhere I go too. If I feel comfortable they can go again with out me. I say no TV or computer please. Wii sports is ok. I suggest they limit the time to an hour because DS can get too intense.

I don't let my kids play at most neighbor house inside because I have seen 6 boys in play basement unsupervised being mean and hitting each other.

One time we went to a boys house for a visit with me and he had a teen bother with a 22 riffle in reach in the garage. The Mom said oh that should be up, oh I give up. Well DS will not be going back there.

I could keep going because I've seen so many potentially scary things parents allow because they don't seem to be supervising. My kids go outside with out me but I frequently check on them. I know what they are doing and who with.

My DD8 takes a while to adjust to new situations. She usually requires me to stay a few times before she is comfortable being left alone anywhere. This gives me plenty time to scope out the scene, plus it is nice to chat with other parents.

I ask that DD stays in the yard of the parents who are hosting the playdate and to be called if they are going out somewhere. I don't regulate the playdate activities, She can eat, listen, do, or watch whatever her friend is doing.

I understand the need to be cautious. At the same time, I also think that my kids need to learn independence and skills related to making good judgements.

If I don't know people well, I suggest that we meet at a park for a playdate. I figure they don't know me any better than I know them yet, so everyone seems to be happy. But I rarely get involved when my eight- and ten-year olds are playing with their friends. I keep a closer eye on my five-year-old, but I still don't hover.

To me, it seems a bit of a strong reaction to bar your kids from playing in someone else's house because they were wild on one occasion. Many boys can get very physical; it's who they are.

Regarding the rifle, I'm completely with you on that one. Yikes.

Val

Wow - me too. I feel lucky that none of the houses my kids visit have guns and I don't have that piece to think about.

Once I am comfortable with a family, I cut my kids loose to interact and play as they choose and to follow other families rules. Like we don't have toy guns here. But I know some of my sons friends have nerf guns they use, and I'm fine with that. We use a timer for any computer, video game time. If another family doesn't, that's fine too. I used to be a little harder on this when DS was younger, but at 9, if they are playing together and the other parent is fine with it, I'm ok with it.

My son's closest friends (2 close in age sibs) and very close neighbors (across the street), have a mom that has a very hard time cutting loose on some things. She really wants to intervene when the kids are arguing or disagreeing. And I feel pretty strongly that as long as they are not being wildly disrespectful or mean, I want them to hash these things out. These are also quite GT kids (especially one of them), and they are all very opinionated. I think it's a good skill for them to learn to compromise and work together. I'm fine if a play date gets cut short because they get too frustrated. They are all such great friends, that it would be fine the next day. Having my kids at home constantly has increased my tolerance for this. I find myself intervening less having them around more. I regularly have conversations about respect and team work. I just like using natural consequences for social interactions.

I just broke off a standing weekly playdate with a family across the street because I couldn't take the hovering. We've been meeting to let our sons (5 & 6) play for a year and a half now, and that family STILL won't let the boys play in a room by themselves or go beyond earshot if we're outside. They intervene in the boys' play constantly, shutting down any form of "violent" play, which by their definition includes make-believe games like cops and robbers and pirates. They also try to organize the boys' play, giving them ideas and setting the rules for games. In my mind, the whole point of a playdate is for my son to play with someone BESIDES me, and to learn, without being told by an adult, how to socialize with kids his age.

I also resent having to "play" by the other family's rules (my favorite: don't run in the park, you might fall down!). I'll abide by their rules at their house and ask my son to do the same (after all, it's good for him to see that other families do things differently), but frankly, I feel like my rules should apply at my house. With this family, I was walking on eggshells in my own home, because I was constantly fearful my son would say or do something that was ok with me but not with the neighbors (like build a LEGO spaceship that shoots imaginary lasers, heaven forbid). The playdates had become so stressful and exhausting for me and so confusing for my son that I finally called things off. It's a shame, because when the boys were allowed 5 minutes without interruptions and corrections from adults, they played very well together.

I agree on the gun issue although we do have a bb gun, bow and arrow and such here - but always locked up and only used with an adult.

My children are to follow whatever rules/guidelines are in effect in their friends homes - whether this means they do things I don't ordinarily allow or are unable to do things I do allow.

I personally feel like most of the parents around here are real helicopter parents and that the kids are not allowed to negotiate or work things out on their own. Any kind of conflict brings parents rushing in telling their children what to say and how to resolve it. Are they planning on going to college with them too?

When DD plays at others' houses, she follows their house rules. Same goes here. We are very lucky that her two best friends have parents that have similar rules as we do. There have been no issues. The kids get along great and can resolve their issues on their own. I step in occasionally to remind DD about her tone of voice (she can be incredibly bossy at times so I pull her aside and remind her to be polite), but it is only after I can't stand listening to it any longer. I used to have to do it a lot when she was younger. I guess this is as 'helicoptery' as I get!

She is well versed in what we consider safe behaviour and has brought herself home on a couple of occasions because kids were not behaving or she felt uncomfortable.

If she was going to have a playdate with a new friend, I would have to meet the parents first and at least see their house before I would be comfortable. After that, I let her go.

I used to arrange playdates for 2 reasons - 1. for me to catch up with my friends, so DS would play with their children, and 2. for the friends he chooses. #1 has been tough - he dislikes/is indifferent to all my friends' kids, without exception. So these days, I keep it separate. He only has one friend. For this friend, my son is a charming, sporting guy who takes charge in a fair way ("sure you can play it twice. I'll play it twice too but you go ahead first.") so there are no problems whatsoever. It's part of our culture for the mum to show up in tow with the kid for a playdate, and no-one I know supervises how the kids play unless there are tears and screams.

The social problems we have now revolve around kids he goes to enrichment classes with. My son is really small physically, and perhaps because of his sensory issues, really hates being pushed around or even touched. I know that he can be annoying to other kids (he needs to ask a lot of questions, so he does stick out). Possibly too, other children sense this, so they try to push him around or physically carry him, usually after class (and we don't stay on for more than 5 mins - it's just to be social and polite to the other mums). He hates that! I get called in a lot (he screams for me) to mediate. Like you, onthegomom, I feel very uncomfortable about this. I really wish he can take care of himself but he can't. I'm hoping this issue goes away as gets older (and bigger). Some of the other mums are well aware and I'm so grateful when they rein their own kids in.

I wonder if where you live has anything to do with the differing levels of "helicoptering"? Up until a year ago, we lived in a nice, friendly-feeling city. My kids played outside with neighbor kids, played at the park with new friends, and went for play dates at friend's houses. I was around, but I let the kids navigate most situations for themselves.

For the last year, we have lived in a not-so-nice area--and my kids are only allowed to play in the street with neighbor kids, and I check on them all the time. Why? Well, for starters, the kids yell, scream, and cuss at each other all the time. They also play games where they quote movies like Scarface and pretend to shoot each other in the head (we are talking 6 to 9 year olds here). None of these things work for me. One little boy is very friendly and invites my kids to his house, but I never let him go. Why? Because, without sharing their particulars, his parents are extraordinarily shady.

So I submit that, sometimes, being a helicopter parent is just good sense--and that it is a lot easier to let your kids out into the world when your particular world feels like a relatively safe place to explore.

I don't think you are off topic.

We live in a safe, nice area but a neighbor girl told me her Dad has a gun in the house. I have never approached the parents about this as they might be offended. Another teenage boy has a riffle that he does target practice in the back yard.

I would not be offended if someone asked me if I had a gun but there are different mindsets about such things. What scares me is that toy guns look very similiar to run guns. HOw would a child know the difference? I just can't spare a child so I'm careful with them.

Maybe we should all be asking the parents if they have guns.

jeni, extra caution certainly can be warranted by particular circumstances.

On the other end of the spectrum from "helicoptering" is the "free range kids 'movement'". (I haven't been using enough quotes lately, and am turning over a new leaf.) An acquaintance on Facebook seriously proposed that letting five-year-olds and up take themselves to the store, park, etc. makes good sense. I think that's child endangerment, personally. Every parent needs to decide such things for herself.

Asking about guns in the household is a good idea. Thank you!

My son made a play gun at preschool one day out of Duplos, and was playing cops and robbers or something with another boy. They scolded him and said that guns were bad to play with. I had an issue with that, because play guns are perfectly fine in my opinion, and my son was doing fine-- but I would not of course have had a problem with them telling him not to use play guns there.

It would just be bad manners, in my opinion, to plan a gun-themed birthday party, in light of different views on play violence. I would probably let my own son go to such a party, but if one of his good friends couldn't go due to a parent's views, would probably just line up a play date with that friend in place of the party.

I think the parent probally thought the air gun party was just boyish fun but I wouldn't send my DS9. I think with his sensitivity this would be too much for him. Growing up he just could not handle the same exposures to movies and toys that some other kids could handle. He thinks about things deeply. He has handled lazer tag.

I always attend the playdates because I enjoy talking with the other adults. When it comes to violent play...I do have issues w/pretending to kill people. I realizee that cops and robbers have been around for years but the world is different now and regardless of how insignificant it was then...it is so much more significant now.

Why is pretending to kill someone ok anyway? Yes it's pretend but that kind of imagination really does need to remain in check. My DD5 has a 6 yr. old friend who is a boy, and all he wants to do is kill something.

I truly believe in following the rules of other people's homes and of course mine being followed as well. I respect another person's differences and it's very difficult to screen out unhealthy playdates as the kids get older since they won't always want Mom or Dad around. At that point...well I can only hope that my kids know what's right and wrong and can say "no".

We all do our best and I try to be fair and balance the need to "hover" and the need to allow my children their independence.

It is called Airsoft.

I think its a lot more appropriate than just play guns because it does hurt when you get hit. That instills consequences for getting shot rather than the no-risk games using play guns.

My nephews thought guns were play things until I took them shooting with a variety of weapons until they just sick of it. I then got out my airsoft pistols. They each got a few welts and now take guns seriously. They know how easy it is to get hurt. I also showed them real pictures of gunshot wounds. I did this all in one day and it made a deep impression on them. They now know that guns are serious things. My dad did the same for me.

Knives are far more dangerous, though. Knife attacks have a 30% fatality rate while guns only have about a 10% fatality rate. Most people do not know this.

--

Mr W will have a few years of MMA training and he will get to shoot a lot. And some knife training. All so he can protect himself.

Having said this, we do not allow Mr W to watch violent stuff on TV and I will never let him watch violence against women or children, which I consider to be rank obscenity. Most of the violence in movies and TV is fantasy. There is no blood, no body parts, and no people screaming uncontrollably.

When I was growing up, my dad took us to see war movies. He then discussed it with us, giving us his impressions, himself a combat veteran. We also got input from our uncles who had been shot and wounded as well. Mr W will get this as well.

Like anything else, I think its better to take a few sips of wine early, rather than let a kid find about it by themselves. Violence is just another one of those things to guide them through.

Battles are dramatic. I'm okay with my son engaging in dramatic play-- cops and robbers, knight battles, Jedi battles, WW II re-enactments, what have you. That kind of play is about archetypes, heroism, etc. and not gore. It's not really pretending to kill someone; it's pretending to battle, generally as part of a storyline. Like it or not, human experience involves strife.


Why? I think Barney and Blue's Clues need to remain in check. I am fine with my child imagining anything he likes, as long as it doesn't show evidence of an underlying psychological problem-- and if that ever happens, I will address the problem but not think that his imagination needs to remain in check.

I'm generally fine with my son being exposed to anything that doesn't harm him. Playing cops and robbers, etc. certainly doesn't harm him (although I guess another child might be sensitive in a way so as to not like such play; I wouldn't know).


If he's killing things or even trying, that is quite bad behavior. I would never suspect that it comes from simple dramatic play with other children like we're discussing here, and I would report it as appropriate.

My son is well-adjusted and quite a kind little boy. He does like to drive his pretend light saber through the heart of the occasional pretend Sith, but the rest of the time he shows no psychopathic tendencies whatsoever.

Most of my adult friends play war-games. Mostly because they're really interesting, from so many perspectives, including geeky ones. I have no trouble with geeky play-violence. I don't like viciousness. It's pretty easy to tell the difference when you see a group of people playing, and it's pretty easy to point it out. DS1 has already had a few lessons in this, and, interestingly, seems quite sensitive to the difference (crys at viciousness, even when it's pretty mild, gets interested in wargames)

I am a former helicopter mom and where we live, it is common for people to have guns in their homes. Some of my son's friends have guns in their homes but they are locked away in gun cabinets. The parents are very responsible people and I feel that my son is safe with them.

My husband is a Vietnam veteran and Patriot Guard rider. We have a gun in our house locked in a gun cabinet. My husband used it once to kill a rabid skunk in our yard, so I am glad we have it. He and his brother, who loves Civil War and World War II history and collects guns, taught my son how to shoot a gun. My son has a pellet rifle that he uses for target practice. He has been taught gun safety, but he does not know where the key to the gun cabinet is kept.

My son plays World War II and other interactive history type games that include battles. He learned a lot of history this way by playing computer games and reading.

I think it is important for people to learn to protect themselves. I had promised to let my son take a martial arts class, but just when we were about to enroll him in a class, we found out that he would have to wear the scoliosis brace until he is finished growing, so he will probably have to take lessons as an adult.

I have started asking folks if they have guns in their home before allowing dd to go over without me. (She did just have a playdate without me at a family's house that does own guns, but I know that they are kept in a safe.) I wish that you could look up online who owns a gun the same way you can search the Megan's Law site.

And so do the criminals who want to break into your home.

For me, the issue is not so much "are there guns in the house", but what's the character of the people whose house I'm letting my son go into. Fortunately, it hasn't really even come up as DS prefers not to be inside someone else's house.

I personally don't care if there are guns in the house - if so, I'd like to know that they're locked up in an appropriate fashion when children are present. (I should say that if someone said "yep, I've got guns and I just leave them out and around", of course, I wouldn't allow DS to go over there.) However, I feel that the most important thing we can do is to educate/inform DS of what to do and how to handle himself so that *he* will respond appropriately if/when faced with a situation. Those things include notifying an adult that someone has a weapon out, leaving immediately, so on and so forth.

We can't always control what other people do or don't do, but hopefully, some education and common sense will help to keep DS safe even in a potentially unsafe environment.

In Texas, you assume everyone is armed.

In general, from my experience, there is no way to tell by looking at anyone if they own guns or are armed.

I would never ask someone I did not know well about guns. And because it is a crime to reveal that you are carrying concealed in Texas, most people who are would change the subject or lie to you anyway.

If I visit a home and see weapons casually out in the open, and its not hunting season, I would be worried. If someone brags about guns and what they own, I would be concerned. I'd also be concerned if kids constantly bragged about their parents' guns. These are signs of carelessness.

In contrast, responsible people will be discreet.

All things being equal, I would prefer my kids to visit homes where one responsible adult had access to a weapon and knew how to use it. It does not need be a gun - a bat or a sword or a stick or a knife will work just fine.

The argument over weapons cuts a different way with me. If someone was an avowed pacifist, I would not leave my kin with them because I know they will not protect my family.


Would you feel comfortable letting violent criminals have access to such a site?

A criminal could get a name from a car license plate and then reliably find out who does not own guns and target them exclusively.

Large barking dogs are a pretty good (and obvious, unlike guns) deterrent.

And of course, I'd be concerned about letting my kids play in a house with Pit Bulls. Goofy Boxers, not so much.

Val

I am the WORST when it comes to letting my kids have playdates (without me) and letting them just play outside... of course, they can play in the backyard anytime they want as long as they let me know they are out there. DD4 is too young, imo, to be in the front by herself. She also has no concept of looking for cars and whatnot. We can't even block the driveway for her to ride her bike there... she will find her way into the street.

I feel the same way about DD and the front yard and we live in a fairly quiet neighborhood on a cul-de-sac with a huge side yard but I'm just not comfortable with leaving her outside by herself; maybe when she is 5 or 6.

As for guns, might be Texas but we have a gun too. It is locked in a safe and we never talk about it. I suspect there are a lot of neighbors who have one. When DD is old enough we will explain the gun and DH will take her out to a gun range to shoot one. I feel it is important to discuss it and make the point of the dangers of it all, but certainly for now she will never see it.

It's not just Texas that many have guns! They are everywhere. I think what is important is not whether or not there is one in the home, but what safety precautions are in place if they are in the home. Are they locked in a safe? if yes, then there is no more harm than being in a home without them at all. there are more people that have them they most people who don't have them can even imagine. Safety should be the number one concern and I agree that I am more concerned about the parents and what type of people they are. then you see what sort of measures they take for safety if there are guns in the home. Many of my children's friends' parents are police officers and yes, they all have guns in the home. If the guns are securely locked up and not accessible, then you are in no more danger than a home that doesn't have one. I don't ask people if they have them. I tend to know all the parents my children play with and they have similar views and parenting as I do. the ones that don't, I stay when they go there, or we meet at a park or something if I am not comfortable leaving my child there. My DC 8, was invited to a sleepover party this year. I, for one, thought this was too young, and I didn't know the mom at all. So, I let DC go to the party and then picked her up at 9:30pm. She was glad not to sleepover too as she didn't know the mom either. The girl also has an older sibling, and without knowing the family, I am not comfortable with that. DC and I discuss that we just don't do sleepovers at this age and if she wants to sleep at Gparents or whatnot, that's fine, but when I don't know the family, I'd prefer not to.