Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment IQ tests for young children

I posted something on this in the pre-school thread yesterday, but I realize now that more people are likely to see it here. I hope nobody minds the re-post.

I was astonished to read a claim recently about how inaccurate IQ tests are for young children. The claim was that of the 4-year-olds who score 130 or above on an IQ test, only 25% will do so again at age 17. The claim was made in a New York Magazine article entitled "Why Kindergarten Admission Tests Are Worthless". (Reference here.)

If it's true, there are all sorts of explanations for this, as some of the discussion brought out yesterday. But my question is whether it seems likely to be true. Any of those data folks out there have a view?

BB

Sort of the way I feel, G3. In particular, I find it very difficult to believe that the IQ test is a good measure on the basis of which to implement social or educational policy. If the article is right, that's how it seems to be used in NYC. On the other hand, maybe there's not a better way.

I think you also need to factor in where and how the study took place. the most recent version I read was all about NYC kids and how more were qualifying for gifted kindergarten. (not the New Yorker Magazine)

If you have a copy of the exam and a tutor and you've taken it 5 or 10 times, you will do better than an untutored child. But the same tutored child will not be as successful 10 years later when they haven't been prepped for the test.

Yes I agree w/ CAmom. There's a reason why IQ tests are supposed to be kept secret.....you can teach to the test. You can build those skills I think by enough points to get the gifted label. Not sure you can do it enough to get a HG or PG label but enough to get into those NYC schools. Those kids aren't going to look that different at 17.

A friend and I had a discussion along these lines yesterday. Her DD has gifted IQ (PRI>>VCI) but always has average achievement. Is she gifted? yet she took the MAP math test and was able to figure out math problems in algebra (she's in 4th grade) she's not been exposed to....in a way that wouldn't make sense to me lol but she got the right answer. yet on a grade level achievement tests (school tests and WJIII) she scores average. yet another psych did a quick IQ test on her and said she was definitely HG. She is definitely this quirky out of the box thinker. But she wouldn't fit the definition here of HG w/ HG IQ and HG achievement. I should also add she's ADHD and perhaps an undiagnosed reading issue although she reads very well now...just didn't click until 4th grade and still has horrendous spelling issues.

Dazey

I think you hit on the biggest wrench in the works there, Dazey: Twice exceptional kids make all of this much more complicated. Testing isn't always quite right, but observing behavior isn't always quite right either.

Complicated!

I agree with alot that has been said, and I think one test score does not HG/PG make....nor does one test score that did not show this mean a child is not. Kids learn at different paces and some catch up. But I believe that consistentcy is key. Is the child consistently over the years showing HG/PG, or is as someone said, the est the only thing in their gifted portfolio so to speak.

To be honest, when speaking of my DD I don' now exacly where she falls...she looked very highly gifted at 18 months and at 2, but I wondered if kids would catch up....today at almost 3 and 1/2, she is even further ahead of her age mates and not by my doing. I can't give her enough books, answer enough questions, give her enough puzzles LOL. But through all of that the way that gets me, and in my own personal belief growing up in a school for HG/PG kids....some who were leaps and bounds above where I ever could be, is not the difference in achivement or when they were able to do things, but the concepts that they were able to deveop and grasp all on their own....the way they think. I had the experience to be around kids from the time I was 6 till I graduated highschool who were all gifted to varing degrees, but their were those few.. that stood out to em then and stand out to me even today with the way their brains worked who were definitly PG. Ansey will say things that strike me as so out there, so deep and profound, that I am sent back to my youth and my experiences with these kids. The othere night I found myself tucking in a 3 year ld, but listening to her explain basically the time space continum and the physics of time to me...out of nowhere and never having heard anything like this before. To me, that is the difference, the Way they think...the uniqueness.

Anyway, that was probably rambeling, but in other words...I believe kids develop at differnt paces, the fast devloper can be caught up to by a slower devloping child and this can account for a lot of the fall back from giftedness...but I would be hard pressed to believe a HG/PG child could fall out of giftedness, as I believe it is the way the brain works is actualy different in these kids. Just my 2 cents worth LOL

I agree with gratified3. Actually, the paper mentioned in that article, "Gifted today but not tomorrow" is well worth a read; it really isn't naive in the way one might pessimistically imagine. It's available here:
http://faculty.education.uiowa.edu/dlohman/pdf/Gifted_Today.pdf

Great question BaseballDad. I, myself, have battled this idea of the IQ test and might have jumped at the chance to test my toddler but have come to my senses. I really have no plans to test my DD in the near future and at this point, really don't care if we ever test her. The only reason I would is if she is not thriving in her home/school environments. I have come to the conclusion that IQ tests are a piece of the puzzle to help us understand the complicated child that stands before us. My BF's daughter is PG and has many problems which can be stifling for her. These are the things that worry me about my daughter and we watch her for the tell tale signs of emotional issues because my DD and my BF's DD are very similar. It saddens me that her daughter is going through what she is and trust me ... I have been apart of her life since before birth and love her as my own, but I see her experiences as learning opportunities for myself and my daughter. For example: SI which wasn't a well known term when my BF's daughter was young but is clearly something she has and something my daughter has. So for us it's more important to start DD in a challenging environment and let her stumble early on so she can build her skills on how to handle it. This said ... if we did live in NYC we too would be going through the stressful process of finding a great school that could challenge her and that would more than likely mean IQ tests but I have really come to realize testing to just test is not worth it and we will only test when and only when we have a real reason to do so.

I will say that testing has been very useful for helping me to understand DS8, and we will test DS5 as soon as he's old enough for the WISC.

For DS8, testing showed that he's not "dawdling," that's his normal speed and I need to find ways to work with him on that. Without testing, I am sure that my natural impatience would have made for many, many unnecessary problems in both of our lives.

For DS5, I suspect that he's 2E, and I feel like I really have no handle whatsoever on either his strengths or whatever weaknesses he has. I am hoping that testing will be one more helpful bit of info to aid us in figuring him out. I am sure that testing will be just the beginning of a long journey.

In both of our kids' cases, we're not testing toddlers, of course. That does matter. Unless you must have test results for some school or program, I probably would never recommend testing kids younger than 5 or 6, at the very youngest. If young kids must be tested, I would put very little stock in the results.

But I think it's important to note that testing is one tool among many to make sense of our kids, and it can be a *VERY* useful tool.

Sorry, but I just don't want any newbies to read this and think that there is no reason to test. There can be some very good reasons to test and some very useful answers can result. Without testing, we would be in a miserable place right now, I'm sure of it.

Testing didn't change my child, nor is it the final word on ANY child, but testing did change my ability to see what was right in front of me. In our case, that was vital!

Oh Kriston you're totally right! We've tested DS twice, once on the SB-5 (at 5 1/2) and on the WISC (at 6 1/2). Both tests provided invaluable information and insight into how his brain works. I have a hider who doesn't like to show off his abilities at school. We thought he was HG at home but they were screaming ADHD at school. We really needed the tests to help us advocate for better placement and more challenge.

I'm just not sure that testing a 2 1/2 year old is particularly useful. At that age, the school wouldn't accept it for advocacy a few years later anyway. But if you have the money and the time, it doesn't really hurt!