Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Discipline woes - bit long

We are really struggling here with discipline and good manners and just plain doing things you don't want to do but have to. I have two older children who were so easy and were not perfect but almost always respectful of adults and others, well liked by adults and kids and have turned out to be fine young men. Now DD7 and DS9 have a different father and he is, without going into a long sordid story, a much less than stellar parent (serious understatement). The kids are overall fine when it is just us, but at school, in stores, at other people's houses or at a sport or other class they are defiant, willful, hyperactive and rude. I can't tell you how many times I have had phone calls or watched them in action and been brought so low to think that my children are behaving in this way. I am embarrassed, ashamed, frustrated and depressed about it. We do have days or weeks at a stretch when things are relatively calm but I never feel like it is a resolved situation. I dread them going someplace without me because I shudder to think what they might do. They are not physically agressive or mean just act like total spoiled brats which they are not. I just don't get it. They have very serious issues with going to their father's house. Both of them dread it and yet legally I must send them every weekend and also on Wednesday nights. I don't want to use this as an excuse but I do think it is a contributing factor. I have been unsuccessful in getting this changed.

At home I am frustrated because nothing seems to change things. Time outs turn into a nightmare and how long can I take away video games etc. and still have the length of punishment fit their age? Talking things out and having natural consequences works fairly well at home but why is this not transferring out in the world.

Grinity, I have read Nurtured Heart and have been implementing it and this has really helped over the last few months at home - but still no success out and about.

Any suggestions are welcome. Sorry for the rant but I am so worried and afraid that I am letting them down by not being able to fix this.

One final note, they are both going to start therapy next week.

Thanks for listening.

I struggle with my DS7, too. The best thing I have found has been that instead of taking away computer time, he has to earn it with good behavior. I remind him before an event what I expect of him (speaking politely to adults, no screaming, etc) and that if he does what is required, he will get to play his game for 1/2 hour (or whatever). When he "forgets" and makes a rude remark...I give him one reminder, "Remember what you are working for." That seems to work better than taking away his preferred activity or giving him a time out. Of course, I do have to use time out of the above method fails, but I try to save it as a last resort and then give him a chance to earn his favorite activities back by behaving approprately. So, he doesn't automatically get to play games or watch tv...those have to be earned every day. Does that make sense??? nan

Thanks Nan, I have done this also and it does work well at home. The real behavior issue is much more so my daughter than my son. I have resorted to basically keeping her with me as much as possible so I can guide her behavior. It is sad though and limiting for both her and me. DS's behavior is more typical ADHD stuff(though no diagnosis) but DD is getting way out of control. She has always been spunky but this is a whole different kettle of fish.
Glad to hear you give your son the chance to earn back lost priveleges as this is what I do as well. Thank you for your reply. This has just felt overwhelming lately and it is nice to hear from other parents.

I think that NanRos has a very good point about letting everyone know what is expected of them before they leave the house or go on a play date. It's a good reminder and a clear message. Another suggestion I would make, would be for them to practice the behavior you would like and expect from them; shaking hands, looking at people in the eyes while they speak, saying "thank you", good manners while out to dinner, etc. May sound a little goofy, but it works like a charm for us.

My DS7 is a lemons into lemonade kind of kid, so it can be challenging to find a "punishment" that works. Sometimes we have to resort to taking away books (which is the last thing I really want to do). I find it is more helpful to to catch him before he gets into trouble and to be extremely consistent with him.

Hope this was somewhat helpful. Hang in there!!!

Hi Breakaway. I understand at least some of what you are going through. My DS9 has had a rotten year at school this year and was (hopefully most of it is behind us?) becoming a real handful at home. We have been seeing a psychologist who understands gifted kids for about 2 years now, ever since a mid-year grade skip. I can let you know what we have discussed with her, and hopefully some of it my help you.

According to our psychologist, we were locked in a power struggle with DS9. I have always said that he was best described as a 16 year old mind stuck in a 9 year old body. Well, I think we were (are) going through a bit of the teenage years that go with his mental age. He was feeling like he was in an unhappy, stressful state (due to school) and was completely powerless to change it. He needed a pressure valve to release some of that stress, and chose the safest environment to show his anger and frustration... which was to be rude, defiant, and generally a pain in the derriere at home. He knew that we would love him no matter what, and could push every boundary and every limit at home. And the harder we clamped down on him at home, the worse the behavior became. We took away all electronic games and tv for weeks on end, and the behavior continued. For us, DS needed to have unconditional love from us to realize that we were there for him and would help him with whatever stress he was dealing with. Suddenly he didn't feel so powerless then.

This may not help you at all, since you say that your kids are fine at home. But you might look to see if there is some form of stress when they are out and about? Social situations that they don't know how to handle? Or sensory overload from loud, noisy environments? Or do they know that they can push your buttons by acting out in public? People in power struggles are satisfied if they can get a reaction out of another person. So rudeness, defiance, and willfulness can sometime be a cry for help from a person that feels completely powerless.

I'm not sure that was at all coherent. We are struggling with school issues and a new addition to our family. Somehow sleep and brain cells have become endangered species.

Hi ebeth,

Thank you so much for your reply. I do think that the kids are under a lot of stress for a variety of reasons and DD is not able to express that or even understand it herself plus she is definitely a child who has always been over-stimulated when out and about. I am really hoping the therapist she starts seeing this week can help us find a way to figure all this out.
I liked your teenager trapped in a 9 year old analogy. I have definitely got that going on with DS.
Congratulations on your new addition! I have a 21 year old and a 19 year old as well as my 7 & 9 so I have done the starting over experience. :-)

Hi bw huggs uve gotten great advice. Im thinking that when u compare your sets of kids its important to take into account not just the fathers beehavior but also the fathers genetics which in turn contribute to his parenting behavior....yes? I have heard from so any of my son's teachers......I know plenty of gifted kids they are adream to teach so brught and delightful...that why I say optimally gifted instead of moderately gifted these days. But your child is nothing like that. What is wrong with him?

Now I don't want to implly that pgness causes bad behavior. It only makes it statistically more likely that the child majorly overstressed and dramitically amplifies any acting out that a child might do. Throw in a tough home situation and or 2es and volia!


A few month of Nurtured heart approach is a great start...it was closer to a year for my skills in taking out the batteries and energizing to really bm. Just lately Im seeing my dreams coming true.

Bloom that is.

So what parts of the approach are u already good at? What parts do the kids respond well to? what parts still fall apart? Dou have a credit system? R U energizing their father?


love and more love grinity

Kids respond great to being "noticed". We fall apart on the credit system. They lost interest, they argued with me about the points, they fought over who should have what points etc. They didn't care about not being able to cash in points if they did not take a break in their room. We have abandoned the credits - It was concrete, we posted it, we worked on it together, they agreed and understood and then the above happened within days of implementing it.

Their father only has them on weekends and luckily he travels. He is not interested in even discussing any changes in his parenting style. :-(

Thanks for the reference to Nurtured Heart, Grinity. I will definitely investigate it for DS9. I like that it is directed towards intense kids who are possibly ADHD. DS9 was "diagnosed" by the school as having ADHD this fall. I say diagnosed in quotes because they only asked his teachers to rank various behaviors, such as fidgeting, lack of focus, inattention to detail, and ability to organize this schoolwork. So much of this may be due to over-excitibilities, lack of challenging education, and possibly sensory processing issues. I'm not convinced of the ADHD label. However these gifted kids can easily compensate (or mask) things that they are struggling with. This probably applies to both learning difficulties and emotional stresses in their lives.

Breakaway, I know that parenting these intense kids is difficult. Maybe the word difficult is too mild a word? I would unequivocally say that parenting is the hardest thing that I have ever done in life. It is certainly harder than the various college degrees that I have received. There is a hugh amount of stress when dealing with their behaviors, their school needs, their social skills, etc. It is enough to wear down even the most resilient of parents. Just hang in there.

I'm not far enough along on the parenting pathway to see the return of my investment yet, as you are with your older kids. I do know that it seems to take immensely more energy to parent the second wave of kids than it does to become a parent when you are younger and more energetic. I know that I had more energy to deal with DS9 when he was small than I do with DD(baby). There must be a reason why biology puts a limit on the female reproduction (and not male reproduction?). As helpful as my DH is, I still bear the brunt of the 24/7 parenting duties.

You are carrying both parenting roles for your kids for the vast majority of the time. This must be exhausting! But maybe it as also a blessing, no? Maybe you can think of it as this: You are your kids' main parent. Your parenting style is what matters the most. Don't waste your precious energy on what you can't change.

Hugs and good luck with the counseling. Just remember: There are many of us going through similar things. It is nice to be able to find recommendations and advice from other parents here. (thanks again, Grinity!)

Hi Ebeth Hi BW!

ok so the kids can take a compliment....that is a wonderful starting place. Great job. Resets come before credit system....how u those going? Are u comfortable with being reset? Do u call the tiniest rule breaks? Credit systems are tough unless u are willing totake everything away it might be more of a hassle than it is worth in your family. Once you get a reaset that works then u can teach dd a discrete handsignal for use in public. Good luck! Grinity