Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Thoughts on confusing scores?

My 10 yo recently took the WISC-IV and the Woodcock Johnson. Her WJ scores were great, and I think a good indicator of her ability. Definitely DYS qualifying scores!

Her WISC results were, well, weird. I have never seen someone hit a ceiling and yet still get such a low subtest score. The tester said it was because she answered the easy questions wrong and the hard questions correct. Does anyone have any thoughts on making heads or tails on this?

Also, is it common for a child to have much higher scores on an achievement test than they do on an IQ test?

Thanks!

These are her scores:

Similarities - 17 (ceiling)
Vocabulary - 17
Comprehension - 16 (ceiling)
Information - 16 (ceiling)
Word Reasoning - 13 (ceiling)

VCI - 140

Block Design - 10 (ceiling)
Picture Concepts - 13
Matrix Reasoning - 11
Picture Completion - 11 (ceiling)

PRI - 108

Digit Span - 9
Letter-Number - 11
Arithmetic - 15

WMI - 99

Coding - 13
Symbol Search - 10
Cancellation - 10

PSI - 109

FSIQ - 120, GAI - 128

I am not at all a testing expert. But, I do wonder why you say that those scores were ceilings? I have never heard of an 11, for example, being a ceiling score. I am not being negative, just wondering where your information came from. Congrats on the WJ scores!

Ah - are those using extended scoring? I've never seen extended scores like that, then.

I have never heard of an 11, for example, being a ceiling score.

No, me neither!

They are ceilings because she never hit enough questions wrong in the section to end the test. Say if the cut off was 4 wrong, she never got more than three wrong in a row.

Generally, if kids get the harder questions correct, they got a good portion of the easier questions correct as well, so they get a high score. For my dd, her incorrect answers were loaded towards the beginning of the subsections, not the end. So, even though she got a lot wrong, in theory since she got the harder ones correct, there is still a chance that if there were even HARDER questions, she would have gotten them correct as well and therefore gotten a higher score.

Thanks for your thoughts Dottie!

I think the tester told me about her score breakdowns partially because she knew I was hoping to get my dd into the DYS program since her younger sister has already been accepted. The tester felt that the breakdown of the scores was very significant. For example, in Similarities, she got a 17, but she got 4 out of the last 5 correct. In block design, she got a 10, but she got (I believe) 2 out of the last 3 correct, and missed really basic ones (I don't know if she missed because of time or because she got the puzzle wrong.)

Her WJ scores were varied. Her math was mostly High Average, and her Verbal mostly Very Superior. She also hit ceilings on subsections, which effect all of the clusters but the Broad Math. There are the main clusters:

Total Achievement - 146 (99.9)
Broad Reading - 140 (99.6)
Broad Math - 123 (94)
Broad Written Language - 149 (99.9)

She is also a talented writer, so I will still try to apply for her using a portfolio.

Thanks again!

Yes, I was trying to avoid having you have to read too much:

Letter Word Identification - 8.9 (grade) 122 (standard score) Percentile (93)
Reading Fluency - >18 (grade) 156 (standard score) Percentile (99.9+)
Passage Comprehension 15.3 (grade) 129 (standard score) Percentile (97%)

Thank you Dottie, your insight is invaluable! I will do my best with the application and keep my fingers crossed.

She is a very unusual, quirky kid - maybe half a step out of sync with everyone else - so I won't be surprised if she falls a bit short on paper. It's hard to capture her on paper. :o)

Dottie, do you mind if I ask you one more question? How important are the GE's, because if you look at her GE's they look way more impressive than her cluster scores. She tested as a 4th grader.

(Now you've asked for it - your getting everything! LOL!)

Oral Language - >17.6
Total Achievement - 12.7
Broad Reading - 13.0
Broad Math - 7.4
Broad Written Language - 15.8
Math Calculation Skills - 6.6
Written Expression - > 17.8
Academic Skills - 9.6
Academic Fluency - 14.6
Academic Applications - 12.7

Letter-Word Id - 8.9
Reading Fluency - >18.0
Story Recall - >13.3
Understanding directions - >18.0
Calculation - 6.4
Math Fluency - 7.4
Spelling - 14.1
Writing Fluency - >15.6
Passage Comprehension - 15.3
Applied Problems - 9.1
Writing Samples - 15.8
Story Recall Delayed - >17.8

I can't figure out if the ones she ceilinged were the ones with the ">" sign, or the tester put marks next to Letter-Word Id, Spelling and Passage Comprehension. Maybe those are the ones she ceilinged?

Thank you Dottie!

We are considering applying to the Davidson Institute in Reno NV for our daughter who turned 7 in February. When she was still 6yrs old, (last October) we had her tested. The test they gave was the WISC-IV. Her scores were:
VCI- 124 (95th percentile)peers her age from a national sample.
PRI- 139 (99.5th percentile)
WMI-138 (99th percentile)
PSI-121 (92nd percentile)
Full Scale IQ she scored 138 (99th percentile)

on the qualifying scores page it says:
Wechsler Intelligence Test -IV (WISC IV) 145 or above for : Full Scale or Verbal/Critical Reading and/or Perceptual Reasoning

So I'm confused if she would or wouldn't qualify?
Anyone have any thoughts? I'm just the non smart mom! LOL
My husband and I just want to give her every chance in the world to do whatever she wants!
Thanks for your input!
Amy

Thanks so much for your reply! I didn't think she would quite make it either, but with the 99.5 percentile on the PRI...That seemed really high. Anyway, we did decide to put her into the 2nd grade after the first 9 weeks of school. It was a smooth transition, and has gone very well. At the end of March the school put her back into their Talented and Gifted program. She thrives on challenges and loves school.....hopefully we can keep that going!
Thanks again! I just joined this forum but I think I'll be spending a lot more time here!
Amy