Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional How much does 2e affect intelegence scores?

Hmmm... when I was growing up, I was often told I was the smartest kid in the school and I was really gifted and stuff like that despite my emotionally disturbed status.

But I found some of my testing stuff, and according to that, my Verbal IQ was somewhere in the 120-130 range (different tests said different things) and my performance was 100-115, though they noted my subcategory scores varied a lot. That's not really that exceptional, and my grade equivalencies were about 1-3 grades ahead of actual grade (oddly enough, I was way above grade level on reading (beginning college level reading in early high school, but behind grade level in spelling). But the examiner noted that my inattentiveness could have affected my scores.

So um, where these people exaggerating to me I wonder, or did they note that my scores were not reflecting my true intelligence? Of course, you guys cannot answer that.

But is this a common pattern that 2e children score lower on tests even though their actual abilities are higher?

I was told by our neuropsych eval person that the iq he gave was the iq, outside of other issues. Whether or not this is true, I think achievement scores is where the rubber hits the road and the second E can make the first E...um, silent?
Well, not as exceptional looking.

From experience with my 2e son...his first IQ test had full scale IQ as 91 and then 3 years later (after ABA, etc. therapies) was 148. So I say, yes 2e-ness does affect IQ! But the psychologist wrote on the first test the standard statement saying something like "this is a correct and true demonstration of IQ and will expect to vary by 3 points," or whatever they put at the end of the test. But I haven't heard of anyone else who has had such a dramatic difference. Who knows?! Nan

All test scores for my DS12 vary drastically depending upon the environment and his mood at the time of the test, and I don't see why an IQ test would be any exception.

My son was recommended for GT testing by his teachers every single year and always tested "close," but not quite there. Then, after he was diagnosed with an SLD, we let him take the GT entrance test one more time, this time in a small group to avoid distractions. He passed into the GT program because he was separated from the bigger group (read: extra distractions).

I think it's a real shame that more kids don't get into the GT programs, and testing problems might be the reason many smart kids with SLDs don't get their giftedness addressed in school.

My son's first FSIQ was 99 (and it was reportable, I'm pretty sure; the GAI wasn't much higher). His most recent GAI (because his FSIQ was not reportable) was 140. I believe that is "true" IQ is somewhere around 150, with the understanding that there are deficits in the areas of processing speed and working memory, because that is where his brother is and his abilities are fairly consistent with his brother's when you remove the 2E overlay.

Of course, back when all I had to go on was a FSIQ of 99, I thought I was totally crazy to think he was gifted at all. I really questioned myself for several years.

Do you think that inconsistency in and of itself indicates 2E?

Dd9, whom I've posted about, has various IQ scores that vary by as much as 30 pts from one testing to another. Her WIAT achievement scores are 2SDs above what would be expected if the lower IQ scores are correct. We were assured that there was no possibility of any disability when we had her tested last, though, b/c the achievement scores were too high (e.g. -- if achievement isn't below ability, there is no disability). Her Explore scores came today as well and, while she did reasonably okay (nothing like some of the scores I've seen posted here), she aced the science test which she said she had totally guessed on and bombed some of the other parts.

Like you mention of your ds, dd11 has some scores that are low for her on bad days, but she is very consistently high. Her math scores run avg for a gifted kid in the grade in which she's been accelerated, but not at the top of the pack & everything else is always in the 99th percentile for grade. If something went way wrong, she might have a 95 percentile day, but nothing like what we see with dd9.

I honestly find myself wondering if dd9 might just not be gifted despite the occassional high scores. I don't want to pressure her or expect things of her that I shouldn't b/c I don't want to screw up my kid.

Dottie et al., We are currently in the process of testing DD7. I highly suspect both ADHD and CAPD. The school is doing the testing. My best guesstimate for her abilities is MG with brother HG+ and his testing also perhaps skewed by ADHD. I will be curious to see the scores and will share them when they come - I know nothing about the school tester so we shall see. This is an interesting thread and it reminds me to get all the pertinent data, subscores etc.

From the time my son started talking, people were telling us how smart he was in front of him. One of his friends called him genius. Complete strangers would listen to him talk when he was younger and tell us he talked just like an adult. He could listen to the news and retell it better than I could and add a little bit of humor just for fun. One time we went to a museum restaurant and my son noticed that everyone around us had stopped talking and they were looking at him. They were watching him excitedly talk about what he had seen at the museum. When he realized they were looking at him, he stopped talking, looked at me, and said something like "Did someone call for prayer?" I think he was about seven then. I think it was around the time he really started noticing that he was different. He started referring to himself as a freak and a geek and an "un-normal-y/anomaly." I worried about this a little, but he told the developmental pediatrician and educational psychologist that he would rather have the disability and his intelligence than to be normal. I expected that his IQ would show the high verbal intelligence because his disability does not seem to affect him verbally.

He has a sensory processing disorder, hypotonia and motor dyspraxia. It makes him inconsistent in anything that requires visual motor integration--pencil and paper stuff, piano, even dancing. His disability makes him tire faster than the average kid and when you add the frequent migraines and sensitivity to pain, it is very difficult to predict how he will do on any kind of test that requires visual motor integration. I definitely think his 2E issues affected his IQ score.

A very gifted lady on another message board who has mild cp told me that she was tested over more than one session to get an accurate IQ score because of her fatigue and endurance issues. My son was tested over one long session and he was getting a headache. I asked the neuropsychologist about this and she said she didn't think it would make that much difference in the scores. I can't afford any more testing and I won't put my son through that again.

I don't need additional IQ testing to confirm that my son is a very gifted learner. There is no other way he could be reading and comprehending at a 12th grade level when he doesn't spend half the time on school work that public schooled kids do. He can't spend as much time on school type learning because he is working around pain and trying to tune out the discomfort of a scoliosis brace that normal kids describe as a torture device when he used to be sensitive to clothing tags. Despite having motor dyspraxia and fatigue issues he always managed to learn all the dances for musical theater class. He is able to compensate with a little bit of understanding from the musical theater teacher. She is a gifted choreographer and college student. She seems to really understand learning outside the box. She was one of the few people who understood why he needed to be homeschooled because she graduated from the same school that wanted to focus on my son's inability to color in the lines but offered no help or accommodation for his disability and no accommodation for the giftedness. She understood the effect of teachers who don't really care about students.

Hi Lori,

My son was tested over two sessions, and his GAI came out to be 160. Each session took about 35-40mins; the second session was shorter. That was last year when he turned 6. We knew he had some sensory processing and gross motor skill issues, but not much else. We were lucky to meet with a tester who was very impressed with his verbal abilities, but felt that his squirelly-ness (we met her originally for an asperger's assessment on the insistence of his OT; that was debunked) would affect his scores. Her basic stance was to see how high his IQ was, while removing as far as possible, other issues that have no bearing on his learning ability or intelligence.

Since then, we found out that he has visual issues (very poor tracking and convergence). His initial assessment for attention is also very poor, and we are looking for more answers in that direction.

I'm very sure that if DS had to do the WISC in one go, he wouldn't have lasted out and his score would have been a lot lower. I totally understand what you mean when you say your son's visual motor integration will affect his test scores, because that would have happened for my son too. On his recent CognitiveMap evaluation, he couldn't get a rating on visual attention because he couldn't get his eyes to scan the answers anymore after 1 hour of testing. This is after a year of vision therapy .

If it makes sense to test again, do ask the tester to consider his condition. It completely makes sense to break up the testing because his score is very likely to be hindered by issues that have nothing to do with his intelligence.

Good luck!

Gosh. I just saw this in my own son. In his recent CognitiveMap eval, his Kaufman Brief Test of Intelligence was awful - the nonverbal portion was 79. The tester said that DS didn't/couldn't scan for the right picture answer.

I'm just glad he did well in the WISC so that now, all we're looking for is how to help him improve his overall achievement level rather than wonder about how high his IQ is on top improving his overall achievement.

Hugs to you all.