Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments What Would You Do?

My DS6 skipped K and started 1st grade this year. In order to do that, he was tested with the Kaufman Abilities Test and the Kaufman Achievement Test when he was 5.8. He tested at MG (although that seems low to us -- he seems much like his sister who is HG) and in the 99th percentile for math. He is now reading at an early 4th grade level and we think doing math at an early 3rd grade level.

DS thinks school is great fun because he views it primarily as a social event. He has yet to learn much of anything academic in school. He tends to chat a lot with the other kids when he gets his work done early and never has to pay much attention at group times to answer questions. He is in the top reading and spelling group made from all the 1st grade students combined, which is still requires no work on his part, but there is no such math counterpart. The only math enrichment that he has is when I volunteer in his class and pull out the top several kids to play a math strategy game of some sort a couple of times a month. His teacher knows he knows all the 1st grade stuff and has since the beginning of the year, she and gives each student a packet of critical thinking worksheets "at their level" that they can work on when they are done with their other work. There is one other kid in his class that reads as well as he does (slightly more than a year older than him) and several other students who also have an easy time of the math (also all more than a year older than him). I know, however, that he knows things that none of the other kids does, like fractions and adding and subtracting with regrouping and telling time to the minute and multiplication and some division.

What I need help with deciding is what we're going to do about math. I'm comfortable with the reading status quo since he can read and discuss reading with me all he wants at home. For math, though, I would like him to be taught in a systematic way at his own level. Next year there are math ability groups across the grade. But I'm pretty sure he already knows most, if not all, of the 2nd grade curriculum. He enjoys doing math workbooks at home (and other math activities) and has completed several 2nd grade math workbooks with no difficulty whatsoever. Right now he is working on a 1st Grade Math for the Gifted Student workbook since it doesn't advance him in curriculum per se. I guess, basically, he afterschools math. Nothing really systematic though.

These past couple of weeks DS missed 5 days of school while he was home sick, but he still had energy to work on his math workbooks. It really hit home to me how he learned more in the 5 days he was home working mostly on his own than he has all year IN school.

I'm thinking I would like to ask his teacher if it is possible for him to take the MAP test this spring when the 2nd graders do, since it is not something 1st graders take. Maybe then I can get a better sense (as can the school) of his math level. But then, what to do with the information?

We do not want him to skip a grade, although his sister did it with no problem and she wasn't this far ahead in math at this age. He seems like he's in the right grade as far as everything non-academic goes. So, if it were you, should the MAP test show he is ready for 3rd grade work as we suspect, would you: 1) push for a subject acceleration for next year in math, 2) wait and see if the math ability groups will meet his needs, or 3) just continue with the afterschool activities since, while he's not learning at school, he does like school at this point?

Thanks for reading the novel and TIA for any help or advice!

Great idea.

Question - will there be Math ability groups in 3rd grade? If that's the case, then the MAP test would be great to compare him to other 3rd graders so maybe he can get placed in a class where he will learn something.

I would recomend to take the test and see what the results are, and then you'll know more about what to ask for.

BTW - Your son's FSIQ is MG, but what about the Subtests? Are many of them like his sister's? How does he look when you take out th working memory and processing speed subtests? Maybe the information to support that he is 'like his sister' is inside the test?
Best Wishes,
Grinity

Grinity,

I'm going to need to go look up their respective KABC results, so I will have to get back to you on that. But, I do know that there are ability groups in 3rd grade math.

Just two small thoughts:

1. If he takes the MAP test, make sure it's the 3rd grade version. The 2nd grade one does not allow self-pacing - the questions are given verbally through headphones - and it is excruciatingly slow. I found a demo online once (if you can't find it let me know & I'll try to locate a link) and nearly passed out from the shock - and quickly realized that's why my DS didn't do very well on that one. He did much better this year with the regular test.

2. Why not ask for subject acceleration to 2nd grade math right now? Maybe just once or twice a week and see how it goes? (I know this would never fly in my kid's school, but I have higher hopes for yours. )

I can't wait to see everyone else's advice!

Okay, looking at the test results, my DS scored lower across the board than my DD did. In fact, my DD does seem to learn at a faster rate and things come easier to her. My DS, though, and it may just be our perception, seems to have more of an intuitive grasp of things without ever having been taught them. I actually do think my DD is somewhat more gifted than her brother, but, like I said, he is further along in math than she was at this point. Also possibly important (or not) DD was 7 when she was tested and had 2 years of elementary school under her belt, and DS was 5.7 when he was tested and only had 2 years of play-based preschool under his belt.

I had no idea! I'll make sure to ask about this. Might this have an affect on how far they can advance through the test, or is the sky still the limit if you can get past the slow pace?


I actually thought about this, since there is a 2nd grade classroom within the 1st grade pod and they seem to have their math groups when I am there helping. I guess I chickened out. I don't know why I'm so much more nervous asking for acceleration for my DS than I was for my DD!

Another thought I had was that if we just waited for him to take the MAP test in the fall with his classmates (and therefore not ask for anything special), he would proabaly be even farther ahead in math given that he'd have all summer to learn on his own. The advantage of this is it might be clearer to them that his needs are different than average. The disadvantage would be that we wouldn't be able to start any differentiation until into the fall.

I guess I'm a bit nervous, too, that he wouldn't do as well as I think he would, and that we would be "those" parents. I guess then, though, we'd know that he was good where he was.

Schools seem to vary in which grade they switch from giving the MAP for Primary Grades to the Standard MAP test. I'm guessing since mnmom's school doesn't give it to 1st graders, they're giving the 2nd graders the Standard MAP test. At DD's school they give 1st graders MAP for Primary Grades and 2nd graders the Standard MAP.

I think this may be the link that shows how the MAP for Primary reads the questions:
http://audio.nwea.org/WarmUp/index.html

I like the idea of asking for subject acceleration now and letting him test sooner rather than later...but then again, I've been at peace with being "that parent" for quite a while now. Good luck!

Is MAP test only giving through schools? Can homes school kids (or kids who are still in PreK) take MAP online and/or learning centers? If so, does someone happen to have the link available?

Thanks!
Mag

Mag,
Here's a thread about a company in Florida called ACCES. It looks like that would be an option.

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/61215/Re_MAP_Testing_question.html

http://www.acces-inc.com/testing/

So, I talked to DS6's teacher and she agreed that it would be a good idea for him to take the MAP test this spring when the other older kids take it. She thinks it would be good for next year's teacher to know what level at which he is working. She said he's definitely ready for 3rd grade work across the board (all subjects) but that he definitely fits best with the kids in his current grade. She says -- and she thinks this is a remnant from him skipping K and having had one less year to practice and not a problem behavior -- that he still has some problem sitting still. She says he doesn't always sit on his pockets during all of group time and that he likes to stand at his desk to do his work (so she places him at a desk toward the back so people don't have to try to see over him). I asked whether she thought if he had work that engaged him whether he might sit still and she said she wasn't sure. She said he has seat work that is more at his level (enrichment, problem solving) that he doesn't really like to do on his own when he gets done early, but I've seen the work and it isn't at his level either. She did say that on the rare occasion he has does have something more difficult he either just does it really fast without thinking about it (and does it wrong) or he gets really frustrated and upset that he doesn't know it right away. Of course, I reiterated that that was probably because he's never had to work at much when it comes to academics at school. So, nothing that many of us haven't gone through before. But I thought I'd at least update you. If anyone has anything thought or suggestions about what to do next, I'd love to hear them!