Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Gifted or Aspergers/ASD?

mnmom23 - I just saw your post about perfectionism - not sure how I missed it the first time.

But YES! You hit the nail on the head with that. I totally remember just knowing that he didn't want to walk until he KNEW he could do it right. Same with almost all the gross motor stuff. He didn't want to try, too hard, blah blah but then once he set his mind to it, voila! Easy, I want to do it... etc. And with the talking, once he started, he had perfect articulation. My younger son does "baby talk" which is so adorable, first time experiencing it!

I think he is somewhat a perfectionist in that he resists trying things if they are not pretty easy for him. I have bought gifted workbooks and while I know he can do some of the problems, and he DOES do them, he prefers not to challenge himself. Although maybe this is not gifted behavior at all! He challenges himself in some ways but not others but almost exclusively LEARNS independently. He isn't obsessive compulsive in any ways, perfectionism wise.

He is complicated I think!!!

Also interesting is that my second son crawled (9.5-10mo) and walked(16-18mo) at exactly the same age as first did and I already talked about how different they are.

Surfbaby -- your DS sounds much like one of mine who got EI, talked and walked late and then just exploded. He's also into rules, can memorize anything, and can be a little intense for age peers at times. Yet he is social overall, well-liked overall by adults and children, and he does not have any ASD.

For him, I think he's an introvert and so can get overwhelmed by too much social stuff. He has high expectations for his own behavior, but this takes effort and it's hard for him to maintain that forever. He needs breaks to be silly at times.

In terms of memorizing, he was into counting and memorizing stuff as a preschooler. Now that he's been tested, he's just got a WMI >99.9 and he effortlessly takes in huge amounts of info and holds onto it. It doesn't make him Aspie, just really good at memorizing.

FWIW, based on board posts and from a position of never having met your kiddo, nothing you've said raises any red flags. He just sounds smart to me.

Surfbaby - you DS sounds a lot like my DS5 in a bunch of ways. He really sounds like a gifted quirky kid. That's definitely how my guy is. He is quite extroverted and always has been great at memorizing everything (license plates, phone numbers, etc). It just comes easy to him. He has always been into numbers, letters, etc. He is socially much better with adults than kids his age. He acts "silly" (for lack of a better word because I really can't describe it) with peers his age, or mostly when there is a lot going on and seems overstimulated (that is my guess at this point). My theory with the behaviors with kids his age as he isn't quite sure how to relate with them because he sees how different they are. They have completely different interests then him for the most part. I think he interprets them as much different. He also can act immature and "silly" with older kids and adults too, but it is not at much at all. He does experiment sometimes. Like he will wonder what will happen and then will try something out to see. He pushes limits more with people that don't have clear limits becaue he wants to know and understand what they are. I think it is hard too because he is such a little man and always has been. I constantly say to myself "okay, he is 5 and it's okay if he wants to act goofy a bit...even though it doesn't makes sense at all to me" He is just a little goofy sometimes, and that's okay. It is nice sometimes because it reminds me that he is a kid.

My DS enjoys challenging himself, but isn't used to not getting something right away. He can be very patient and work hard, but having to work at something for a long time and not get it is quite foreign to him.

Oh, and we skipped K with DS5 and it seems to be working well. He is a HG+ kid and I don't think K would have been a good fit for him at all. He gets a ton of differentiation in first now.

Good luck, glad to see you on here and learn more about your DS.

Okay I'm learning a lot. I really appreciate everyone's comments!

So it sounds like we're not alone and there are others like DS. For those with similar boys, did you feel like you had to do a lot of social teaching/coaching in those preschool years to make up for the asynchronous development? I know I put a lot more effort into this area of parenting than I expected. Examples:
- Since he loved numbers, I had to teach him when it's appropriate to include numbers in discussion and how to eliminate most of the number chit chat. Like don't ask adults how old they are, what year they were born!! He often wanted to (still sometimes) add in extraneous info about what time things happened, the start and end times of his nap etc. He is learning though. He tells me he just loves numbers! Well duh, but I don't need all that info!
- We had about a year (age 2-3) where we would have to put post its over microwaves and digital clocks so he could focus on other things besides number countdowns Thankfully he is over this.
- Recently I've had to explain that it's not appropriate to think or say another kid is "mean" just because they accidentally bumped into you! After I explain it he gets it, but his instinct is wrong.
- I do have to remind him about eye contact and responding right away when someone says his name. It doesn't come very naturally but he does it when reminded.

Well, DS5 likes me to give him algebra problems in the car for fun. Thankfully I find that he doesn't ask for this if I have classical music on (he loves classical) and he hums and sings away and that keeps his brain busy. When younger while driving he would count everything (mailboxes, street markers, etc.) I do probably do some extra social teaching, but ironically I am a school social worker so I do this all day at work. I probably don't even notice it when I do it. He seems to know when not to talk about certain stuff at all and if not, he at least gets when I am unable to talk about it. He usually doesn't go on and on about things, but occasionally does about contraptions and different things if he is really into it. He does misinterpret social situations at times. And he seems to think everything should be fair and that somehow fair is the same as equal, which is not always true. He has great eye contact at times, and other times he needs reminders because he if off focused on other things, or thoughts in his head. He is often thinking, he is like an absent minded professor. He doesn't always respond when he is humming songs. My DS5 is also extreme and will say things that clearly aren't true like "all you ever want to do is say no when I ask you things" (this said to me this morning when I didn't want him to bring his erector set to grandmas to play with after school, but asked him to bring a smaller toy that I could carry easier). When I clarify and say things like "do you really believe that I say no all the time, or do you mean that you are upset because I said no this time?" then he gets it. It's the asynchrony. He is trying to figure things out and can be emotional at times. Not all the time thankfully, but he will get emotional and somewhat unreasonable at times when he thinks things should be a certain way.

freaky memory plus a hearty dose of silliness describes my DD3.9. My DD is a little over the top too and I spend a lot of time trying to help tone her down in social situations. She is very young but appears to be gifted and may have very mild sensory seeking tendancies that cause her to be a bit more intense, but it could be good old fashioned "over-excitabilities." He sounds like a normal gifted kid to me.

My DS8 had a number of things in common with your DS around that age. He was a perfectionist and while not speaking or walking late - he did wait on those until he was sure and then things came in giant leaps. I asked numerous times about autism or similar disorders. At this point, everyone has said that he is PG mathmatically (with a very strong memory and verbal IQ), but does not have any form of autism. (He may have some amount of ADD - very disorganized and forgetful with things - I don't think your son has any signs of this. I am a bit undecided on whether I agree with that diagnosis or not - want to see if anything changes in fulltime GT program next year.)

He had the phase of always watching clocks and I remember several discussions about when it is okay to add numbers to a conversation. (By the way, his math has really taken off this year - second grade - they just started letting him work online at his own pace in school in place of regular math a couple of weeks ago and now he is more than 3/4 done with pre-algebra.)

Your child sounds wonderful, and as one who has experience with autism (more experience than I would like to have), and also experience with mathematicians, I think your child sounds more like a mathematician than someone with autism. Of course that is a little joke (and a silly one I admit), but truly your child sounds fine. I would not worry about having to do some social skills training now and then. Not everything comes naturally to everyone, and many young kids (especially boys) need a little social skills coaching now and then.

We had the 'exploded' thing too - aged 3 my DS now 7, couldn't ride a trike - within weeks of PT, he had accelerated faster in his gross motor skills than the therapist had ever seen and was riding without training wheels before 5. Again, aged 3, his coloring/pencil grip - nothing - now he has superb handwriting (self-taught cursive), and excellent drawing skills. It still is a 'perfectionist' issue though and he can drive us crazy with his 'I can'ts' that magically transform into accelerated stuff. Kind of getting used to it, but then there's the next new thing .... .
Anyway, to the point, your boy sounds very similar to mine in development, and I've really been there with the sleepless nights, researching etc, but yours really does sound gifted rather than ASD IMHO. My DS is totally a Math guy too, and as people on this site have re-assured me, Math excellence can be just that.
There is so much in the news at the moment about ASD (which is a good thing in many ways and many cases), that those of us with GT Math kids, almost feel that our kids are bound to be on the spectrum somewhere - as if it's a way of accounting for the ability.
Just a suggestion, maybe you could try looking at his behaviors physically/socially/emotionally without the 'blinkers' of knowing that he is so mathematical. I don't mean that to sound rude, and I find it hard to do, but taking out the 'numbers' you may see how he does socially in a different light.