Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Gifted or Aspergers/ASD?

Hi there,

I am nervous to even ask...but I have been on the fence with my almost 5 year old son for quite some time. While I have generally never felt compelled to get him tested, I do always notice certain behaviors that aren't typical. Without posting his entire history, I'll just say he is very bright, has a great facility with numbers, math, memory, reading since age 2-3, has been learning French for a year and is quite talented with accent and vocabulary and sentence structure, has a facility with music (playing simple songs on a piano). Has strong fine motor skills, excellent handwriting, capacity for art (but not high interest)...etc.

Socially I think most people might not notice any quirks, but I sometimes do. He is very friendly and social, everyone remarks on how social and sweet and friendly he is saying hi and hugging his friends etc. But he does act overly "silly" sometimes and I feel like I do a lot of coaching about social rules and feelings and how not to laugh TOO loudly/long, hard to explain but that stuff doesn't come as easily.

His teacher last year I think suspected he might have HFA (because her son does) -- never came out and said it but I felt she did. But his teacher this year gave me a detailed eval of how he does everything so well, behavior wise, social, everything. She thinks he should skip Kindergarten, but of course I disagree.

A couple of my concerns are that he effortlessly memorized all his preschool classmates' birthdays, spellings of first and last names, addresses and phone numbers (the class worked on these as a group) and always notices license plates and remembers them, dates etc.

Is it possible that this falls under the gifted category? I'm nervous for the answer, so please be gentle

Thank you!

Thanks Dottie. I definitely see what you mean -- and I also think he has asynchronous development. I do expect a lot from him and tend to go overboard nipping any "strange" behaviors in the bud before they get out of control.

But then there are certain things that are clearly not normal like when he had a friend over I guess she was saying she doesn't like dogs (he thought she did and should like dogs) and he went and got his library book and showed her about how friends shouldn't tease. I think he totally misunderstood the situation. He thought she was teasing him or something. And he'll say "You're joking" sometimes, misusing this terminology. Subtle things. I'm never sure if there is something wrong in his brain or if I am expecting him to understand things that he shouldn't yet.

Add'l info: He writes and spells quite well. Phonetically sometimes and memorization sometimes with the letter order slightly wrong. He keeps a journal (I make him) and writes a few sentences about his day almost every day since almost 4 to now.

The whole number memorization thing though? Is that possible under a sole gifted label?

Hi Surfbaby,

First off, you're not alone in having these concerns about your DS. When my DS was 2-5, I really thought that there was something to be concerned about. Now I understand that what I saw is just part of his quirky GT personality.

As far as the silliness goes, I would suggest you not worry about that at all. In DS's SECOND grade (so 7-8 year olds), there are still boys who are not yet able to control their silliness/laughing. And many gifted kids develop asynchronously, so their emotional maturity level may not match their highly-mature academic level.

On the other point of your DS's ability to effortlessly memorize things, IMHO I would see that as a sign of potential giftedness but not a concern unless there were red flags of a problem. Some of those beautiful brains are just wired so differently from those of their agemates. But that's what we're all doing at this forum, right?

FYI -- my DS8 (who we took to a psychologist when he was 5 because we were concerned and we were told he was just fine) still has odd ways of reacting to what people say. Sometimes it seems like his over-sensitivity to fairness or right/wrong kick in. Other times, he just seems to analyze the meaning of things more than most. Bottom line is that he thinks very differently from other people, but we've come to understand that's just who he is and it's nothing to worry about.

I'm sure others will chime in. Hang in there!

Is this a teacher you would generally trust, aside from her recommendation that he skip K? If it is, then I would be inclined to believe that this teacher, having been exposed to a large number of children over her time teaching, might have a better perspective on what's normal for a 4 or 5 year old than you do. It can be hard for us parents to have a realistic expectation for behavior when 1) our children are not average and 2) we ourselves are most likely not average. I like Grinity's term "outer-directed perfectionism." (I hope I'm quoting this correctly!)

From what you describe, your DS does seem to have some awareness of getting along socially, even if he hasn't yet mastered the nuances of it. I think it sounds normal for him to ocassionally misunderstand social interactions since he's only been on this planet for a few short years and social interactions are quite complicated. When you read books together, is he able to discuss with you what different characters might be feeling? When you talk to him as you carry on with your daily activities, does he express how he feels or how other people might feel? If so, then I think he shows some behaviors uncharacteristic of HFA. But I'm not an expert. If you continue to have nagging feelings, watch him, since it is important to listen to your mommy-gut. But, in the mean-time, try to watch other kids his age and how they interact to see if your DS is really acting much differently.

Thank you SO much for responding you guys! I am so thankful bc I don't feel alone on this.

Yes, I agree I see this silliness with boys a LOT and then think..well he's not THAT bad. AND usually when I tell him to stop, or call attention to it he says "Okay" with a reluctant smile. I think he gets caught up in the fun of it all which I guess is somewhat normal, I just wish he was out of that phase already

mnmom23, thank you for asking questions:

When we read books together, yes he totally understands all the characters' feelings, motives etc. When I ask him about daily things...last year it was quite a struggle to get info out of him. This year he is more facile with this but he does sometimes/often struggle with putting his sentences together. How do I explain this? He can answer questions but doesn't go on and on about anything. Like it's kind of too much effort if we ask too many questions. And when we have to have "talks" about behavior or something he agonizes that I'm talking to much! Also with the talking, when he asks us questions out of the blue, he will often have to ask it a second or third time until I can understand what he is talking about. Something about giving context to the question and/or just getting the words out. But overall I wouldn't really suspect and speech issues, but that's just me.

He does sympathize with everyone, not concerned with that. Always seeking emotional and physical affection, giving it too. Always wants friends over but in the past often has trouble sharing toys once they get here. I am always reminding him to play WITH the other kid if you want them over so badly. But it's coming along.

That's the thing, I coach him a lot but he really learns quite well from my coaching.

Doesn't have any strong interests that isolate him - just really interested in numbers, always notices them. Shapes too and colors. He is quite advanced in math for his age too and understands new math concepts quite easily. Computations come easily but so do larger math concepts. He used to be "overly fascinated" with counting numbers, digital clocks, countdowns but is largely over it. I never considered it obsessive, just very fascinated if that makes sense.

Sorry if too much info, this is such a complicated thing though

Oh, and yes I do trust this teacher. She is very calm, observant and experienced. It is her 12th year teaching this class. After his teacher's concerns (which were never overtly discussed) last year I told myself that if his new teacher had concerns I'd get him tested. But she did not relay any concerns. Hard to explain but my gut tells me she is attuned to the kids really well.

Okay also. As long as I'm going on and on.

He did early intervention from ages 18 months to 24 months. He was delayed with speech and walking until age 16-17 months about. So they started with developmental play therapy. At 18 months he exploded with everything, talking, numbers, letters, letter sounds, shapes, colors and everything. SHe stayed on for those six months, concerned about his perseveration on numbers and letters. We eliminated them from his life and focused on everything else. Didn't "let" him read and learn math until 3rd bday. He used to have little intonation in speech, more of a flat expression and not overly social. Now he is just about normal I'd say with all that.

My other son is 18 months now and is CLEARLY different. SO social, engaged etc. So funny, always bringing us things, pointing.
Older son did not do these things but also I dont' think I encouraged it nearly as much as I should have (first time mom, clueless).

Hope this helps color the picture...

I agree with Nan. Don't totally rule out skipping. It has worked well for many of our kids. But it does lead me to ask another question: Does your DS have the opportunity to interact with kids older than he is? If so, do you see any differences in how he relates to the older children? Perhaps the difficulty you're seeing in your DS interacting with other kids is that the kids are his chronological age rather than closer to his mental age and he just has much less in common with his agemates.

As far as the late speech and walking and then an explosion of ability, is your DS a perfectionist? I think some of our kiddos who tend toward perfectionistic sometimes wait to show their abilities in things until they are certain they can do it well enough. Then there is also that whole Einstein theory/late-talker theory that these kids brains are so focused on more analytical and mathmatical tasks that their verbal and/or physical development can take a back seat for a while.

Thank you NanRos and mnmom23. To answer your question, he has some opportunity to interact with kids older than he (and I am aware that this can be a distinguishing behavoir) - really mostly his cousins and a couple neighbor boys. The neighbor friends are 5-6 years old and I would say he acts much better with older than younger boys. With the younger, he can regress and get very emotionally escalated if the younger boy doesn't share or hits him or something. The older boys are generally calmer and more dominant and he goes along with what they want to do. BUT I wouldn't say that his emotional or social or intellectual maturity "elevates" when around older kids...like he's in his element with them. No, he is still slightly immature and kind of tends to be focused on what he wants to do, sometimes tattles. And since his only strong interest is math, it's not something he can really bond with others about and I doubt he would. It's mostly for solitary enjoyment I think. Does that answer the question enough to help?