Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional arm flapping?

DS5 is a PG child who just started arm flapping occasionally. I have never ever noticed it before and it literally just started about a week and a half ago when a bunch of other kids were over at our house. He was clearly excited and overwhelmed with all the kids here. But he has been around tons of kids before and we had never noticed it. He was doing it tonight around the same group of kids, and then later with DH when they were building a contraption as he was anxiously awaiting to see if it worked. I have a background in children's mental health. While he had some traits when younger of sound sensitivities and used to spin a lot when he was younger, he really doesn't have any other symptoms that are on the spectrum at all. So we are at a loss as to what is going on. We don't want to be overlooking something if there is something else going on. He is a quirky (and amazing) child, but has no perseverations/obsessions. He doesn't get stuck on any topics. HE is good about changes in routine for the most part. He is extroverted and loves being around peers. He often initiates in conversations and asks other people about what they think and feel about things. He doesn't completely relate to peers because he hasn't had a lot of peers. HE also has issues in school with behavior at times. So now we are confused as to what is going on. Any others with arm flapping and was it separate from a diagnosis on the spectrum, or along with it?

My would do that when he was very excited until he was about 7 or 8. He told us he did it when he felt he had excess energy that he had to get rid of and he got excited about so many things then--books, games, playing video games with friends, playing with friends in his musical theater class. I remember being a little embarrassed once when he did this in front of someone and they said something about it. It seems that a lot of people automatically think little kid using adult vocabulary plus reading at 2 plus flapping when excited equals Aspergers. It didn't matter that a developmental pediatrician and neuropsychologist said he did not have it. He does have some sensory processing issues that I thought were just overexcitabilities and motor dyspraxia.

He paid more attention to his appearance and changed the flapping to a more socially acceptable and less obvious rubbing his hands together at age nine.

At 11, he is much more reserved and conscious of his front stage/back stage appearance. He liked reading about sociology a few years ago and when he read about dramaturgy it really clicked for him that he needed to play a normal person in real life and save being himself for back stage. Back stage is much more fun or it used to be until other things in his life took away some of his ability to have fun.

I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but my DS (now 8) would do arm-spinning (imagine windmills) when he was about 4-6 and in overly-stimulating environments. It showed most when he was doing something like playing soccer -- lots of noise, lots of people, environment he wasn't used to.... He'd run after the ball spinning his right arm the whole time. Sometimes we'd also see it in classroom-type settings during very active and/or social times.

Although he has some OEs (and anxiety), he is definitely not on the Autism spectrum -- that's according to DH & I, his teachers and the pscychologist who evaluated him for anxiety, etc...

DS is very much a fidgety kid, but we no longer see the arm-spinning. Frankly, now it seems to have changed in sports settings to him tripping over invisible things every few minutes and rolling on the ground before he gets up. He's a hoot to watch play basketball. It looks like the invisible man is fouling him over and over again!

Thanks for the responses. It does seem to be more along the lines of what your DS Lori. He doesn't really seem aware of it, but it seems like he just suddenly gets a burst of energy. The other night he was jumping while doing it. It looked like he was about to take off, LOL. Again, we had him evaluated by a developmental pediatrician at 3yo and we really don't think anything on the Autism spectrum does fit him, but it does look a little odd and I worry that others will start teasing him about it. I just find it odd that it just started suddenly. At home sometimes he does still spin around, sometimes with his arms out (think "the hills are alive" and the sound of music, LOL). He usually doesn't do that in public though. He doesn't do things like that when he is engaged in some activity or something. That is interested how your DS Lori picked up on being more socially acceptable with the movements. And I like the whole front stage/ back stage thing. So true. I think at 5 they are still figuring all that out.

My daughter has a good friend that does this when she creating fantastic stories in her head or she gets otherwise very excited. Her daddy is PG for sure. The school caught the arm flapping at first grade and sent her for an eval in autism clinic and nothing was seen that indicated spectrum. She's almost 8 now and it is less. My daughter just started to ask why she does that. A little education and it didn't bother DD at all. Hope that helps a little.

My dd used to flap a lot but she seems to be growing out of it. At 7, I may only see it now once a month, when at 5, she flapped her arms daily. I think it happens when she is excited and her brain is moving faster than her mouth. She had a full neuropsych eval last year. He said not autism, just PG and perhaps mild ADHD. I think there is a very mild auditory processing issue at play, but ped, OT and neuro psych don't agree with me. In our case, its less of a problem every year so I haven't pushed for further intervention.

It's all very interesting to me. The brain itself is quite interesting how it works and how there really sometimes can be a fine line between a child on the autism spectrum and one that is not. Sometimes it is quite clear and evident...but other times there can be a lot of crossover of characteristics, especially with the PG population. And I can see it would be hard to work on the flapping thing, especially if they don't realize they are doing it. Some things increase when you call attention to it.

Yes, we have never encouraged/discouraged the arm flapping. If anything, we mirror it and encourage dd to express herself. The more easily she can express what she is thinking, the more the arm flapping has diminished. Actually, I miss the flapping. It let me know shat she was thinking was really important.

I recognize that the autism spectrum is rather arbitrary. As long as dd is happy, connected, and communicating, it doesn't matter to me if she is on or off the spectrum. She is herself first.

my girls shake and flap and I have asked about it and am told that many kids do that when excited and that may be different from "stimming"

: ) I agree. Sometimes you can get more help and services if you are diagnosed, but it doesn't change who the child is or anything. Oddly enough I haven't really noticed DS5 doing any of the arm stuff all week. This past week he has been doing more of the incessant humming of classical music when he is really thinking, LOL. It is quite amusing. I love my little guy, he makes me smile : )

I think flapping is something many kids do but stop when they realize most people don't do it. They have to be aware enough of other people to stop. I know a gifted blind boy, definitely not on the spectrum, who flaps when he's excited. He can't see that other people don't flap.

I juts noticed this topic, having just recently joined your great group,and "repetetive behaviour" was an issue in my (long!) intro description of my 3.5 year old boy (is that a DS3?- I'm trying to figure out the lingo!)..so while some of you reflect on flapping, does anyone have experience with "jumping"? By this , I mean he randomly jumps up and down on the spot , usually 2 times, while doing an activity, excited, wandering around...he'll repeat it here and there, depending on whether or not he continues an activity...more when energetic, excited, sometimes not much at all..no flapping with it, no obvious viusal/verbal stims, just some bounces. AT our first screening with a psychologist, her initial impression (just after 1.5 hours) was unlikely AS, but seeing the jumping,she admitted it stood out as odd. Focusing in on this one behaviour is important to me because he has no other obvious stims (unless running up and down the hall, when bored or not active that day, 5 or 6 times, is a stim!)Anyone else have this experience?

Hello Ksy, and yes you have the lingo down Yes, my DS used to jump more, when really into something or excited. He still does it occcasionally when he is on the computer for a bit or doing a task that takes a while and he has to be still, then he will randomly get up and do it and then sit back down. Honestly, I think they are little and their bodies are active and their minds are active. DS5 still spins some randomly. This is sometimes when he is bored and unsure what to do. He started doing it really early (like before 2). Everyone has seen it some, even the pediatrician, but they are not concerned. With the spinning DS does notice he is doing it, he just thinks it is fun. I think he is looking for some vestibular input or something, can't quite figure it out but he enjoys it at times. I guess some of these things come and go...he hasn't been doing the flapping thing since I first posted here. Very strange.

hi ksy
i just also wrote on the other thread, but then saw this. I would not worry about a stim like jumping now. At a young age lots of kids do minor stims. if you went to my neighborhood pool in the summer you'd think half the kids were on the spectrum. Its one of those things that by itself is not a problem and will probably go away when he starts to feel self-conscious about it and notices others not doing it (see my other post). My son was also a jumper more than a flapper. I would not try to interfere with it too much as sometimes when you "put out" one stim a new one will pop up in its place, I'd just ignore it for now, and redirect him if its more than a couple hops.. I would also say that it might be a good idea to make an appt. for an eval even if it takes one year. That year may give clarity one way or the other, and you can always cancel. Also remember that we ALL stim in one way or another. I am a hair twirler.

irene

shellymos- thnaks- quick question from a newbie- are your kids gifted, other?