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    #69418 02/22/10 11:41 AM
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    Hello! Thank you for all the advices and recommended resources on this forum. I don't know what I would have done without the reading and support here.

    Tomorrow is the big day.... we are meeting with the school team (principle, GT teacher, classroom teacher and counselor) to discuss plans for DD6. We are hoping her recent scores will be enough to convince the school for an IEP, but trying to keep an open mind to any recommendation the school has to offer.

    I am getting cold feet and nervous. (I don't know why I should be nervous.) The forecast of possible snow in the morning is not helping.

    Any last minute advice to help warm the feet and calm the nerve will be greatly appreciated!

    Mag... crazy trying to remind myself to stay calm.... sometimes I am just too blunt....

    PS: What are some "tough" or unexpected questions from schools that you encountered in your meetings?

    Last edited by Mag; 02/22/10 03:39 PM.
    Mag #69426 02/22/10 12:12 PM
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    I found reviewing this article about assertiveness and effective parent advocacy helps me with the pre-meeting jitters. Good luck!
    http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/advo.parent.sherrett.htm

    inky #69444 02/22/10 02:47 PM
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    I understand the blunt. That's me. I had a 2 hour IEP meeting with a very large group of people and it got heated at times. Luckily, my husband was there to balance me out when I was to over the top smile. So the only advice I can give is to stay calm and use education lingo. If you are in a state with some protections they will likely have the word "appropriate" in their mandates. They will also understand FAPE-Free and Appropriate Educaiton.

    I just keep going back to the phrase, "I know we all want to see DS6 get an appropriate education." and "As part of DS6's free and appropriate education, I'd like to see him working on a level he hasn't already mastered 2 years ago." Stating it this way they couldn't help but agree. I mean what could they say. No I don't want him to have an appropriate education. Or worse. No I want him to work on something he's already masterd. LOL. Now that would have been hiliarious!

    I digress. Basically I kept it logical, as much as possible. They understand numbers, statistics you can prove, laws and regulations of the areas, and educational research you can quote.

    Good luck!

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    Hi inky and Momma Bear,

    Thanks for the luck! And thank you for the article and the word "appropriate." Your paragraph on the phrase of "I'd like to see him working on a level he hasn't already mastered 2 years ago" is a good one. We will likely be using it tomorrow morning.

    One of the biggest fear we have is that the school will say (as we have heard many times from various educators) that the primary teacher is responsible for differentiating and giving level-appropriate assignment for each child. We really like DD's current teacher because she is trying, but obviously is limited by the time and resources available when dealing with 20 students of various reading and math levels. She is open to suggestions but the actual implementation that is hard to accomplish. The last thing we want is for DD's teacher to feel like she is not doing a good job. She is doing a great job under the circumstance. We have emphasized to her many times that we appreciate her effort, but still afraid we might hurt her feeling. Sigh....

    Thanks again,
    Mag

    Last edited by Mag; 02/22/10 08:44 PM.
    Mag #69477 02/22/10 10:17 PM
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    Hi Mag - good luck

    You can try throwing out the quote that differentiation works when the child's readiness to learn level is within 3 grade levels of the class average, but that beyond 3 grade levels is too much for any teacher to accomplish. I don't think that there is any research to back that up, but it's what I've heard the other YSP moms and dads talking about. Sometimes I attribute stuff to 'My Internet Parents of Unsually Gifted Children group has found...' and then refer the school to Davidson's Educators Guild who provide free help to schools.

    My main advice is -
    1) take notes, it will give your hands something to do if they say: 'But how will she feel when the other kids have their driver's license' or whatever. And they will.

    2) The minute the meeting is over, type up your notes, post them here, and then send an email to everyone who was at the meeting, saying: 'Sometimes it's hard for me to listen to so many ideas, so if you don't mind, I've typed up what I heard you say at the meeting, and request that you look it over and let me know if this is what was actually said and agreed to:'

    3) Sometimes I've left these meeting feeling emotionally beat up, so if you can arrange something fun for later in the day, that would be good. Sometimes I've left the meetings 'high as a kite' over promises that were made, and never intended to be followed through on.

    4) A basic fact of life is that Parents and Educators use the same words to mean totally different things. Don't 'smile and nod' at the generalities that float by. Instead say: 'I'm not sure what you are saying, could you give a specific example?' Be polite, but if you have a part of yourself that want approval and to please people - metaphorically tie that part up and muzzle her. Hey, we are conditioned that way. Instead, take all of us in there with you, larger than life and able to extract karmic justice when needed. You role is to help the school realize that THEY have a problem, and that YOUR solution is best for all concerned. Kind of a facilitator.

    Love and More Love,
    Grinity


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    Just some last minute best wishes! smile


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    #69497 02/23/10 08:17 AM
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    Good luck today, Mag. Let us know how it goes.

    GM5 #69499 02/23/10 08:22 AM
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    Good luck! Can't wait to hear how it went this morning. I'm thinking about you!

    JenSMP #69537 02/23/10 12:47 PM
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    (A long post....)

    Hi Everyone,

    Thanks for all the good wishes and luck and advice-- They helped! blush

    We sent out an email prior to the meeting to thank them for their time, to give them an idea of where we are coming from, to state what we know about our state and district policies, and to include a couple of IQ and achievement scores. We also mentioned that just like different levels of special needs students require different interventions, different levels of gifted students require different learning environments.

    (Our school is very well known for their exceptional service for the special needs, which is good. In fact, many parents bought properties here specifically to transfer their special needs children in this particular school.)

    Going into the meeting, our goal is for DD(6, in K) to have a flexible IEP so DD can accelerate in areas of her strength (math and reading) while taking other courses (arts, music, PE, etc.) with her same-age peers.

    The meeting included the principle, the counselor, GT coordinator, and DD's current teacher.

    They asked us what do we hope to accomplish. We asked for their thoughts on how to best challenge DD in her areas of strength. We were also curious as to what has the school done for the other highly gifted students? (Through the grapevine of gossiping: the last student ended up grade-skipping mid-year and is currently in 6th grade. There were two other families ended up sending their children to private school and/or home school.)

    The initial suggestion by principle was whole-grade acceleration by having DD take the credit-by-examination test. But the concerns of DD's writing skills and emotional maturity made this option less optimal. Everyone agreed that we will reconsider this option when DD is older.

    We tried to steer the discussion to the options of IEP by asking if DD qualifies for "Level 4 Gifted Service." Our school district follows Dr. Donald Treffinger�s Levels of Service Model. We spent most of the time brain-storming different ideas for the IEP.

    Possible options suggested:

    1. Pull DD out for "above-grade" (for a lack of better words) GT programs. For example, in addition to DD's kindergarten gifted program which meets for one hour per week, DD will be pulled when 2nd grade gifted students meet too.
    2. Attending 2nd or 3rd grade level reading and science classes. Two concerns: schedule conflict because every grade has a set schedule and DD's writing skills won't be able to complete the required book reports and/or science papers.
    3. DD's current teacher would get math worksheets from 3rd or 4th grade teachers and offer them to DD during the normal kindergarten math time.
    4. On-line distance learning independently and/or with a staff.

    Throughout the meeting, the principle and DD's teacher were sympathetic. The principle stated that there are so many services for the special needs at one spectrum, why is there so little for the gifted? She also brought up the importance of being flexible while formulating the educational plan. The counselor mentioned the importance of not feeling bored in class.

    One concern they had was, "What are we going to teach DD if she finishes 4th grade math before she reaches 4th grade?" (Our elementary school is k-4, follow by intermediate schools.) We brought up the online courses. But they are not sure if it can be offered. They are willing to check with the district and the computer teacher.

    The counselor tried to focus on the social and emotional well being.

    Overall, we are glad to know that they are trying. We will be sending a follow-up letter to summarize the meeting and to emphasize the advantages of the online math course. (1) DD will be able to learn at her own pace. (2) Online course will be the less likely to cause schedule conflicts (since it can be done at any time). (3) DD will be able to learn >4th grade level math while still stay in elementary school.

    Another good outcome is that someone asked if we will be doing this for DS also. We smiled and we hope he will be able to get into kindergarten next year (he missed the cut off dates by 24 days).

    Again, thank you all for your support! We will keep you posted--our follow-up meeting is scheduled for March 9th.

    Mag

    PS: Is there a save option when posting? Sorry about the sloppy grammar and spelling.... time flew and had to pick up little guy from school now.

    Mag #69549 02/23/10 01:23 PM
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    Originally Posted by Mag
    Possible options suggested:

    1. Pull DD out for "above-grade" (for a lack of better words) GT programs. For example, in addition to DD's kindergarten gifted program which meets for one hour per week, DD will be pulled when 2nd grade gifted students meet too.
    2. Attending 2nd or 3rd grade level reading and science classes. Two concerns: schedule conflict because every grade has a set schedule and DD's writing skills won't be able to complete the required book reports and/or science papers.
    3. DD's current teacher would get math worksheets from 3rd or 4th grade teachers and offer them to DD during the normal kindergarten math time.
    4. On-line distance learning independently and/or with a staff.

    Sounds like a productive meeting.

    I love the idea of #1.
    I think that #2 might be a good idea - particularly if she can be attend the 2nd or 3rd grade classes with 'Kindy level' expectations for 'Kindy credit.' That way she can stay interested as her writing skills catch up to her.
    Online Math at school is something that she might need to do when she completes the school curriculum, but I'd rather have her do 3rd or 4th grade Math in a classroom setting now, and let her work independently later, when she is more mature. But that time the school may have 'grown into their role as her educator' and be more open to you partial homeschooling for Math, or they may notice that a good number of their current 4th graders are ready for 5th or 6th grade math, and a mini-class may magically appear for her.

    If kids loved learning online at an early age, then everyone would be doing it. (It's a lot cheaper than hiring teachers, no?) There are a few kids who like it long term, but mostly, kids tend to like being in classrooms with classmates and a teacher to interact with.

    Well Done!
    Grinity


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    Sounds like you all got a great start!

    Mag #69557 02/23/10 02:52 PM
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    Sounds like a lot of good things happened. Love the quote from the principal, "Why are there so few services at the gifted end of spectrum?" ...As many of us have been wondering for decades!

    From a distance, the comments as to "what if she learns 4th grade math before she leaves the school," are kind of humorous. Perhaps better to wonder, "What if she finishes 4th grade math before she leaves kindergarten?"

    I think the two of you must have done a wonderful job to have this go so well.

    A couple phrases that might be useful, which I didn't see suggested. "I/we really need your help." "We're all in this together." "We're trying our best to research and understand what might be best for her, and really appreciate your help." "We're as amazed as you might be by this, and are really being put through our paces to try to keep up!"

    All geared to creating language around the concept "We're all a team trying to do our best for her." Metaphorically, drawing you all onto the same side of the table, vs opposite sides, in creating a program for her.

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    Oh and AFA save/formatting. You can always create a post in a word processing program on your hard drive, then cut and paste into a comment when ready.

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    I like #2 as well. If you decide to accelerate, it would be a smooth transition to come back after a break and just stay in 2d or 3rd grade. The smoothest acceleration I had was along those lines.




    Austin #69651 02/24/10 12:38 PM
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    Thanks for the feedback!

    These are great suggestions as I was typing up our "summary and follow-up notes." We address the possibility of "auditing" the higher grade science and gifted classes without having the pressure of writing reports. We also concluded with the phrase, "we are so excited that we can all work as a team...." (Grinity: hopefully the school and us are communicating in the same language. You comment on same-word-mean-different-things made me wonder if we should write an article on "Schools are from Pluto and Parents are from Mercury.")

    Austin: we are hoping that by attending a few classes with the "above-grade" crowd, DD will eventually feel more comfortable and gain the confidence when/if we actually decide on whole-grade acceleration. DD is so shy.... she loves to stay in her little comfort zone....

    We are encouraged by the first meeting, but not counting our chicks just yet. smile

    I will be honest though, I am worried about the changes and new challenges will overwhelmed DD and cost her self-confidence and self-esteem. Even though DD's achievement scores back up her abilities, did I inflate her abilities? Is she really going to be happier? Sorry, I know I am so wishy-washy.

    Thanks again,
    Mag

    PS: Thanks for the suggestion on typing out the responses on word process then cut/paste.

    Last edited by Mag; 02/24/10 12:53 PM.
    Mag #69652 02/24/10 01:15 PM
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    Originally Posted by Mag
    I will be honest though, I am worried about the changes and new challenges will overwhelmed DD and cost her self-confidence and self-esteem. Even though DD's achievement scores back up her abilities, did I inflate her abilities? Is she really going to be happier? Sorry, I know I am so wishy-washy.

    Thanks again,
    Mag

    Honesty is good. Then you can trace the fear and take a look at it. Did this happen to you or someone you know that when they finally got challenge, it was really difficult to learn how to work hard? If so, then you can remind yourself that it's better to learn how to work 'semi-hard' at this age, then at some later stage.

    I think observing the target classrooms is a really good idea. Then you can be assured that '3rd grade' isn't so scary, and that you aren't misjudging the situation.

    Girls can be timid by nature, but there is also to possibility that she is insecure because she is surrounded by a setting that is scarily 'wrong.' Let's say that every day before you sent her to swing on the swings, you dressed her up in a baseball catcher's protective gear. That might actally cause a child to become anxious. Keeping a child in a very underchallenging environment is a similar experience in some ways - kids can percieve that we don't have confidence in them - assuming that they are normal and that we somehow arranged to place them with 'well-below normal' kids out of over concern for their self-confidence.

    I'm not sure I'm making any sense, and I sure don't mean to insult kids with developmental delays,in any way, but I've seen that from a 6 year old's perspective being in a heterogeneous classroom can be disturbing in a way that's hard to articulate.

    Anyway - being in an enviornment that 'seems more normal' to her might change her timidness...maybe.

    Love and More Love,
    Grinity


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    Hi Grinity,

    Thanks for always offering thoughtful insights. I have been thinking about your post for a while now.

    Yes, indeed. I do have a fear of failure. Coming from a "good" family and with an older sister who seemed to be highly gifted, I was expected to do well in school. It did not matter that I came home with a second place in a math competition, "your sister got first." To keep up and to meet the expectations, I struggled and spent nights and weekends studying and had very little social or fun time.

    I do believe kids need to know there are expectations, to learn the value of hard work and delay gratification. But, I also want them to stop and smell the roses, and have fun along the journey.

    I want DC to be challenged, but don't want to overwhelming them to the point that they are miserable even though they can do the work. And I am afraid that I don't know how to find the balance for DC because I never did. And a childhood goes by so quickly....

    Mag

    Last edited by Mag; 03/03/10 10:16 AM.
    Mag #70545 03/05/10 02:27 PM
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    Go sit in the classrooms. Observe the kids, the learning materials the teachers. Finding a teacher who is a good match for your child makes all the difference.

    So sorry you were always 'second best' - apparently some of your sister's genes are 'in you' because you are seeing them in your daughter. I'm sorry you didn't get social time or fun time - but I'm sure that part of you was happy to have the distraction of struggling to met your family expectations, because I know many kids who just plain rebel and do nothing academic in a circumstance like that.

    It is a handicap to try to give your child something you never had, but I have tremendous faith in you that you will keep posting and thinking and trying stuff and you will be there for your DD. It won't be perfect, but it will be nothing like your childhood was. Do keep in mind that while having an older sister who seemed 'more gifted' than you had it's downside, you never had to feel 'weird' or 'alone' or 'like a freak' because the family path was already beaten down. Your DD won't have that. I'm the first born, and I was always jealous that my younger brothers seemed so much more 'self-accepting' than I was. Your older sister provided a 'gifted cluster' for you at home - even though the cost was so high.

    Do you have more than one child, Mag? Or did your growing up experience scare you off of the whole sibling thing? I hear tell that there are families that appreciate each child's unique strengths and think of themselves as 'smart families.'

    Hug and Happy Dances,
    Grinity


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    Mag, I just wanted to throw out there that my DD8 was a very shy, quiet child who never wanted to volunteer answers in class and who was often so quiet in class that the teachers told me they couldn't hear her voice. She had plenty of great friends and seemed quite social, but in the classroom she was just so quiet and didn't like to stand out. Still, despite early entrance to K, by 1st grade we found that her academic situation was inadequate. So, in 2nd grade she started going to 3rd grade in the morning for reading and math (and because of the schedule, for p.e. and art as well) and she started to get slightly more challenging work. She wasn't used to challenge at all, and even though the work was rarely difficult for her, the slightest tinge of challenge upset her. But, the challenge was truly so slight and few-and-far-between, that she was able to gradually learn to deal. The other benefit was that she was able to get to know the 3rd graders. But, the biggest change we've seen came this year when she was whole grade accelerated into 4th: she has really come out of her shell! She now raises her hand in class to answer questions, she volunteers to be the class leader, she talks with the other kids, she'll ask the teacher for help, and she is so much less shy in virtually every situation. I truly think the change came about because now she is so much less different than her classmates, most of whom are 1.5 to 2 years older than her. And, while the work is generally still not challenging for her, it is occasionally, and it is mostly new to her.

    Anyway, I don't know how much this applies to your situation, but I wanted to let you know that the right academic situation can really help a child to feel more comfortable with themselves. HTH!


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    Hi Grinity and mnmom23,

    Thanks for sharing.... It is good to know that maybe we just need to find the right fit for DD6. During our last meeting, her teacher commented on how DD6 has (gradually and finally) come out of her shell. She "earned" an opportunity to lead the class morning routine. We are so proud of her! smile We are starting to ask neighbors and friends about the current first grade teachers (and will ask the school if we can observe) to hopefully find a good fit.

    Grinity: My sister and I are really close. Although I did not quite fill her shoe, it was nice to have her footsteps to follow. I do have two kids. If we are 15 (I used to say 10, but realized an adjustment is needed) years younger and financially more established, we would love to have more. smile

    As far as kids rebel against the academic expectation of parents.... yes I have seen it with my youngest brother. He was probably the smartest of four siblings, but struggled to find his identity and place within the family. He rebelled big time.... And, that is another situation that I hope my own children will never have to go through. Not only was it traumatic for the child, it was awful for the parents too. Balance.... only if I can find the formula to determine the right balance for each child....

    Anyway, we will have our followup meeting with the school regarding DD6 possible IEP (math and reading acceleration) this Tuesday. Will keep you posted!

    As usual, thanks for the support. It really feels nice to be able to talk about these issues and share concerns without worrying about the gossips.

    Hope you are all enjoying your weekend!
    Mag

    Last edited by Mag; 03/07/10 04:20 PM.
    Mag #70666 03/07/10 03:20 PM
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    Hi Mag, I'm joining in a little late here but I wanted to add that for my DS7 when he was 6 the school proposed to let him work on the computer independantly for math. He is very social and at that age really craved praise from the teacher. He wanted her to see how smart he was. So the computer independently did not work. He was frustrated that the teacher didn't notice his progress as well as the fact they would only let him work up 1 grade level after he completed the current grade level. So I would take Grinity's advice and try to fight for the pullout to 2nd or 3rd grade with live humans or in class differentiation unless or until she is really ready to work independent of adult interaction. Surprisingly with homeschool DS7 likes to do his work on his own. He doesn't like me hovering around. LOL But I guess a teacher is a different story. j

    Good luck! It really sounds like you made a dent!!!! You should be very proud of yourself.

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    Thanks hkc75 for sharing. It is interesting you brought up home schooling. May I ask how you come to this decision? (Can you tell that we are thinking about it confused). When (at what age or grade) did you start home schooling?

    Mag

    Mag #71114 03/11/10 08:14 PM
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    Part Deux of our quest for an IEP for DD6 (in kindergarten): (This is long)

    Well, we were all excited and hopeful after the last meeting about two weeks ago. However�..

    For this follow-up meeting, in addition to the principle, DD�s teacher, school counselor, and GT teacher, we also had the district�s GT coordinator and K-6 Math-Science coordinator.

    During our first meeting, pull-out subject acceleration was suggested and discussed. This included pulling DD6 for �above-grade� math, GT, reading, and possible science classes. Unfortunately, the district�s GT coordinator indicated that Texas policy does not allow such arrangement for elementary school students and is not an option until DD is in the middle school.

    (Of side note: the principle apologized privately to us after the meeting. She really did not need to apologize because we knew she supported the pull-outs if the logistics (such as schedule conflicts) can be worked out. And since our current relationship is a positive one, I just did not have the nerve to ask the district GT coordinator for the specific legislation/law/policy that we have so desperately searched for on the internet. But even if I do find the policy, will it really change anything?!)

    Within our district, it is �all-or-nothing� acceleration. A student must take an exam that spreads over three half-days in subjects of reading, math, science, and social studies. To qualify for a whole grade acceleration, the student must score >90% in all four areas.

    Suggestions for this meeting included:

    1. DD6 will do the MAP testing for math and reading within the next few weeks. The principle is lobbying for testing in science as well.

    2. Pending on the MAP result, DD6�s teacher will find a differentiated curriculum for DD6 within her class.

    3. Since pull-out single subject acceleration is no longer an option, we are hoping for ALEKS that DD can do within her class. Thanks to many of your posts, we were able to tell them all the advantages of ALEKS, include generating quizzes and homework, giving feedbacks to teachers and students, and comparing student�s level to state-specific standards. (Since we are doing EPGY at home, we thought something different at school might offer another way of learning. And the tuition for ALEKS, if registered through school systems, seems to be more reasonable.) This option is nowhere near a definite yes, but we are trying.

    4. DD wills stay with her current kindergarten pull-out GT class that occurs once a week for one hour.

    5. Continue to work on DD�s thinking, reasoning, and logic skills.

    Some other comments during the meeting:
    1. Although everyone agreed that DD�s writing skill is developmentally appropriate, it is �lagging� behind her intellectual abilities. This potentially might pose a problem for grade acceleration.

    2. DD's GT teacher indicated that during her many years at the school, DD is the first one to obtain a perfect score on ITBS (both reading and math) and CogAT. The GT coordinator said that the district administers the hardest kindergarten level of ITBS, �but it is still kindergarten level.� Not sure what to make of this comment.

    --------

    From our point of view, we have mixed feelings about this meeting. We are disappointed that single-subject pull-out is no longer an option at this time. But we are encouraged by the fact that the principle and DD�s teacher are willing to work on providing a differentiated and challenging curriculum.

    Depending on what is ultimately �allowed� at school, maybe we need to take a year off to work on DD�s writing skills and continue to progress at her rate in the other subjects.

    Thanks for listening....
    Mag

    Mag #71139 03/12/10 06:17 AM
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    Quote
    DD's GT teacher indicated that during her many years at the school, DD is the first one to obtain a perfect score on ITBS (both reading and math) and CogAT. The GT coordinator said that the district administers the hardest kindergarten level of ITBS, �but it is still kindergarten level.�

    My hothead reply is that I'm sorry to hear that your GT coordinators are pompous'! I'd tell him that they obviously need to bring out the first grade test, if a perfect score is not good enough! It is a shame when the GT coordinators are the people who are not advocating for GT needs!.......but, I'll save that rant for another post

    Quote
    1. Although everyone agreed that DD�s writing skill is developmentally appropriate, it is �lagging� behind her intellectual abilities. This potentially might pose a problem for grade acceleration.

    I am just curious as to what it meant by writing skills. Are they speaking of handwriting or creative writing?
    Very little is creative writing is introduced in most K classes. The main focus is handwriting and sentence structure.
    Your DD may only be showing "developmentally appropriate" writing skills because that is all she has ever been required to do. When it comes to writing my DD will take the "quick route" every time, if she is not specifically asked to do her best. I would venture to say that your DD's writing would be most likely improve over the summer break if given the challenge.

    (((Hugs)))
    It is very good to hear that you teacher and Principal are backing you. That fact alone is encouraging

    Mag #71143 03/12/10 06:49 AM
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    Originally Posted by Mag
    Unfortunately, the district�s GT coordinator indicated that Texas policy does not allow such arrangement for elementary school students and is not an option until DD is in the middle school.
    [...]
    I just did not have the nerve to ask the district GT coordinator for the specific legislation/law/policy that we have so desperately searched for on the internet. But even if I do find the policy, will it really change anything?!)
    No - but if the GT coordinator were to admit that it doesn't exist, that might change a lot, not only for your DD but for others. However, "policy"'s different from "law" - on the minus side, a policy might not even be written down but could still exist, on the plus side a policy might be easier to get round! I really would push on this if I were you. Would it maybe work to mention to the principal that you're confused by this comment but didn't liked to bring it up for fear of sounding argumentative? Maybe the principal would be in a better position to ask the GT coordinator about it as a professional query, which might bring to light that the policy/law is fictitious, if it is...

    Re the "it's still kindergarten level" comment, is there any reason not to take it at face value? i.e. that achieving perfection on a grade-level test is different from achieving well on an above-level test. (Both ways: GT kids who can do well on above-level tests but still not achieve perfection on grade-level tests are common; you've got the other way round, that perfection on the grade-level tests doesn't tell you how she'd do on an above-level test, although probably you personally could have a good guess.) This matters for acceleration particularly if it's by several years - but if you're just asking for acceleration out of K you'd think perfection on a K level test should do it!


    Email: my username, followed by 2, at google's mail
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    Thanks for the hugs and support. blush

    As far as writing skills... DD6's teacher mentioned a few times during the meetings that DD's work is "quality over quantity." DD is still wearing toddler size gloves (just to give you an idea of how small her hands are). I think writing is just something that we have not worked on much because she gets frustrated with not being able to hold the pencil well and unable to get her hands catch up with her thoughts. Her hands get tired easily. The "claw" seems to help and we also have some large triangle shaped pencils too.

    Another concern is what to do with DS4 this fall. DS4 is currently in PreK at the same elementary school DD6 is attending. His recent WPPSI-III and WJ-III-ACH scores indicated that he will likely be following DD6's path. The psychologist who tested both DC indicated in her report that neither would likely learn anything new (except for writing) in kindergarten or first grade. DS is not at all crazy about going back to preschool this fall.

    We are wondering about home schooling next year to focus on DC's writing and music (maybe piano lessons might help develop those tiny fingers?) while continue to challenge them in their areas of strength. Then, attempt the public school system again in 2011-2012.

    Any thoughts?
    Mag

    PS: I do like the idea of having the principle ask the district GT coordinator about the law/policy. Let me think how I can mention it to the principle the next time we meet in the hallway. And, thanks for clarifying the difference between law and policy.

    Mag #71349 03/13/10 12:57 PM
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    Originally Posted by Mag
    Unfortunately, the district�s GT coordinator indicated that Texas policy does not allow such arrangement for elementary school students and is not an option until DD is in the middle school.
    Mag

    That is not true.

    http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/Resources/Policy/By_State/Show_Policy.aspx?StateID=51

    "�School districts shall provide .. and (4) opportunities to accelerate in areas of strength (�89.3. Student Services)."

    A number of school districts do this for GT kids.


    Mag #71351 03/13/10 01:07 PM
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    Originally Posted by Mag
    Any thoughts?
    Mag

    Texas has a number of excellent programs but they are isolated within specific school districts. Given that it is many months to the fall start of the 2011 school year, another approach would be to abandon your effort with the current ISD, find an ISD and program in Texas that will take your kids that you like, and then move. You have lots of time to do research and reach a decision but you would have to start now because most ISDs shut down after May.

    Since you have Ruf's book, you can look up her school types and then contact TX GT association for a list of level IV and V schools and then start there.

    http://www.txgifted.org/

    Austin #71401 03/14/10 07:56 AM
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    Hi Austin,

    Interesting you brought up Texas education law 89.3.... The way they get around it is by saying every child is challenged at his/her level because teachers in this ISD are asked to differentiate students and to provide "acceleration" as deem appropriate within each class.

    Another interesting fact is that when I saw the "Level IV" service (IEP) for the gifted students on our ISD's website, I called the District GT coordinator to ask her for the "eligibility" to receive such service. She said, CogAT 150 and above would qualify. I was excited because DD6 happen to have the number. (Of side note, isn't 150 the highest score possible for CogAT?)

    But then.... you know the rest of the story.... differentiate within the classroom is what we will get. In a way, it might not be a bad idea since DD's teacher and principle seem more open to suggestions and potentially might be more flexible. We also kind of got a hint that (if we do return to school in the fall), DD's current teacher and principle will try to match DD up with a teacher who will be willing to "differentiate" and to offer "acceleration."

    We will see what MAP testing shows and where this takes us.... Even though moving is not an option at this time, I will check out the school list on the Texas GT website.

    Thanks again for the input!
    Mag

    Mag #71403 03/14/10 08:01 AM
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    Hi again Mag. I am pming you. laugh

    Mag #71411 03/14/10 11:32 AM
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    Originally Posted by Mag
    Unfortunately, the district�s GT coordinator indicated that Texas policy does not allow such arrangement for elementary school students and is not an option until DD is in the middle school.

    I'm guessing the policy comes from here:

    http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/sboe/schedule/2007/february/instruction/attachment/03_cbe_a2.pdf

    However, I would note that this particular policy speaks to the conditions under which acceleration must be offered, it does not seem to prevent subject acceleration in the elementary school.


    Does anyone else find it confusing that people would choose to go into the GT field and then direct most of their energy into limiting opportunities for students who are GT? mad

    Taminy #71504 03/15/10 10:04 AM
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    Thanks, Taminy!

    We saw that too. We just don't quite understand why whole-grade and single-subject acceleration are exclusive of each other in the elementary school level. I wonder if it is some district policy that is hidden. We will be making some phone calls to the nearby districts to find out how they deal with subject-acceleration after the spring break.

    To answer your last mad question.... My guess is that a lot of "opportunities" have to do with $$$, especially since our district is/will be in the red and are actively cutting programs (some pull-outs enrichment programs are on the potential list). It is sad, but it is the reality.

    Thanks again...
    Mag

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