Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Stanford-Binet L-M, and school enrichment question

I keep telling myself that it better work this way. I still have a few more questions to go on the DYS application (should be doing it right now) and cannot come up with any reasonable answers.

Hi Mia,
I think asking for a meeting to show the teacher the worksheets your DS has done, and the ones still availible to do, is quite reasonable - but no garentees how it will turn out. I'm glad that "or else" letter is in the works.

As for understanding your child better - that's a worth goal. I would wait to see if you get into YSP first, because there is lots of resource for this task that you don't have to pay for. You can ask the family consultant and the other parents on the emial lists. Another possible source of information is that frustrating MAP test, although I hope that by the time you get that information, you can just check off the list, "I know he knows this, I know he knows that!"

I don't remember who did your other testing, but see if you can get some of the information you really want from the folks who did those tests. What one would really like is a list of subjects and skill, and a grade level scale of what the child already knows, and what they are ready to learn. If you find anything like that - please let me know! Until then you must find out the 'scope and sequence' information for your particular district, and painstakingly seek to observe what your child knows and is ready to learn in all those areas.

good luck,
Grinity

Thank you for telling me. I had no idea. Where would I see the blinking envelope? I run Firefox with blocked pop ups in case it matters. I actually thought that I had PM tied to my e-mail but I just checked and it looks like it's not even possible on this board or I just don't see it.

Thanks for the PM. You have a point. I'll reply after the kids are in bed.


I like your thinking. May be I should just wrap it up tonight and be done with it.

Thank you for all the weigh-ins!

To make myself clear, the SB L-M would be for my own benefit; since his current school doesn�t care about his current test results, I don�t expect they�d care if I came back with a paper that said he had two heads that were both 200+ IQs! It�s more that, as gratified says, I�d like to know whether with his WPPSI scores he�s 1/1000, 1/10,000, or 1/20,000. I�m pretty sure he�s closer to the 1/1000 level, but knowing where he falls would give me a little more drive to decide whether a grade skip is truly called for.

The other thing is that people don�t understand that you can�t get amazing numbers on the newer IQ tests and are still looking for those 170s and 180s. It�s frustrating when people think, �Oh, 148 isn�t that high� when it truly is. But even the school doesn�t seem to understand what his numbers mean, and it�s possible (though unlikely) that an older, more familiar scale would have more impact. Still, the SB L-M would be for my planning benefit. I don�t think I�ll actually do it, but I�m still pondering.

Dottie: I haven�t given up on school yet, and I�m cautiously hopeful. His father wants to sit down for one more meeting with the principal before we send out letter. I, however, don�t see the benefit in this; she�s already said no once, and her knee-jerk reaction is going to be no again. I�d rather avoid that and send the letter, so at least she�d have to think about it for a while. I�ve agreed to set up a meeting to sit down with her, explain our position, and give her our letter at that meeting. Anyone else have any input on this? We�re asking for first-grade math pull-outs and a start to the Iowa Acceleration Scale per the letter I posted a few weeks ago.

Kriston: The teacher is an interesting case. This is her first year as a K teacher, but she�s taught first grade before. She�s said several times that academically, he�s certainly ready for first grade or higher, but his �organizational� skills aren�t there. And what even more interesting to me is that she�s gotten quieter and quieter in our meetings as the semester has progressed � which makes me think that she is starting to agree with me and ex-h but doesn�t want to say it when the principal is against acceleration. In any case, for right now, I think we�re going to work at home with the Singapore Maths (which I�m really liking too) with a reward for finishing the books. I know he could finish this 1A one in about 3 days without any real effort, so we�ll employ a little bribery to get him to get him going. I bet he could be through the 2B by the end of the school year at least, because he knows it � just not in the format they�re asking. It�s about teaching directions and such, not the actual math.

Grinity: That�s a good idea, to wait to hear from DYS before pursuing the SB L-M, and I would probably do that anyway since we�ll hear back in the next few weeks. I�ve looked at scope and sequence (or at least general curriculum, is that the same?) for his district, and I believe he�s at least at the second-grade level with a few holes here and there.

Anyway, thanks again, all. I love having a community that I can bounce these ideas off of! To start, no one else that I know would have the slightest clue what I was talking about if I said SB L-M!

Hi Mia!
Sounds like you are on the right track. Meet before letter, or letter before meeting, whatever - as long as it's soon. Try to give way on the small things. You can also bring the letter to the meeting, distribute it to all, and read it aloud.

I'm a little confused by the above. Are you saying that if your kid is 'really' 1/1000 you'd be less likely to push for the skip and if the kid is 1/10,000 then you'd be more likely? LOL!

Personally I'd be more likely to push for a full grade skip for a 1/1000 kid because then they could pass for MG, and have a that coveted 'normal childhood' while a 1/10,000 kid is really going to need so much more I might get overwhelmed and give up!

Not really I guess, but I am having that 'what am I reading?' feeling. I'll try to be clear. It's only LOG up to a point. After 1/1000 rarity, any gradeskip might help, but it's the personality and the school fit that really determine if the gradskip is needed.

Anyway, good luck, I'm glad we're all in this together!
Grinity

Sigh, yes, I guess that is what I was saying ... but not that I wouldn't try for that grade skip anyway. I guess I've heard "We get kids like this all the time" so often lately that, once again, I'm starting to doubt myself. I need to knock that off and just go for it all out, because I think he needs it.

But that's the thing, though -- does he *need* it? Would he live if he doesn't get grade skipped? Sure. He'd probably be just fine. Would he be challenged with his schoolwork? No. Would he learn good study habits? No, probably not, though he still might. Do I think it'd be better to skip him? Absolutely. Do I think he'd socially and emotionally do great with a skip? Yep, I do.

But I'm not convinced that it's the only way to educational fulfillment. Maybe that's why I'm looking for more confirmation that he really is that out there with the SB L-M. I think he is, and his WPPSI and WIAT results seem to confirm that. So I should probably just leave well enough alone and go with what we've got, which is nothing to sneeze at.

As for the "normal childhood" thing -- I was skipped and I had a "normal" childhood, so that's the least of my concerns. I strongly feel that "normal" childhood has more to do with the child and how their social skills are than it does with any skips, per se.

I love journaling, but isn't that what the archives of this forum are for? So we can look back at our own tormented musings?

tee-hee-hee!

Hi Mia,
We spent over $1000 total on 2 rounds of testing (SB5 and Wisc-IV) in which DS hit ceilings and the tester said the numbers were clearly underestimates. It was really very dissatisfying. i really wanted that big number out of the LM, but I'm over it now, because I don't think that would really solve anything anyway because of all the problems with the test and because at >12 he's probably too old anyway. Nonetheless, I continue to crave knowing exactly where DS "fits."

But, frankly, I get more out of this forum than I ever will out of a number. I also found reading Deborah Ruf's book helpful and I am looking forward to reading the book: Exceptionally Gifted Children by Miraca Gross. Reading stories of kids like mine, has been the best therapy for me. I remember reading the chapter on level 4 kids in Ruf's books and just feeling my whole body and spirit relax--"Ah, now this is my life!" I think the stories about the kids speak to me way more than any number!

Okay, strong opinion alert:

Mia, here's what I think you should take into consideration before going into the meeting with DXH and the principal again.

You're hearing a lot of "we've got lots of/we've seen lots of kids like this before.

IMHO, I feel the administration at school is attempting to manage your expectations. I think they would say this to you even if they clearly realize there is no other child in his grade/school that appear to have his capabilities/needs.

Even if I'm wrong, I don't feel it matters how many children with higher educational needs they have. In fact, it kind of makes your case for you that they should be doing something different. Then they can accomodate your child as well as this unusually large group of brilliant children they supposedly perceive they have.

But that's not what I would say in the meeting. The bottom line is you are the parent of your own child and that is who the meeting is about. Superfluous folktales of the many other genuis children only are affective in minimizing your child's needs and I would steer them away from that line of thinking quickly.
Ex: That's great to hear the DS will have many peers here, however, I'm here to represent DS, I'm sure those other children's parents are quite capable handling their own child's academic needs. What I see is the real question is; What material is a kindergartener/first grader expected to know to graduate to the next grade. Does DS already know this/has DS already mastered this material? You can say this carefully, in a friendly manner and still not come off as overly assertive.

Your school definately has concrete parameters of what each child needs to know in order to be promoted to the next grade. If they are being vague about those parameters, I feel it is because they have already made the decision they don't want to skip for whatever reason. Try to ask specific questions and write them down so you can remember them before the meeting.
There are so many more people on this board who have better advice than I do so maybe others can pipe in.

Try to treat it as a business meeting, I know that sounds weird. There is nothing more personal than your child. But, the principle has no emotional attatchment to your or any other child, so it really is a "business" meeting to them.
Calm, state the case, friendly but not overly emotional.

Lastly, if DS is happy and doing okay, don't feel you need to borrow trouble. It's easy to read these boards and become aware of possible problems down the road. But if isn't problematic right now, know you can handle anything that comes up, as it comes up. KWIM?

So, good luck!!!!!

Incog

Clearly your son's scores say that he could easily handle a skip or 2 or 3, academically. But the decision to skip is way more than whether one can handle it academically. As I have said, I was skipped, and it provided little challenge academically but it was socially disruptive. My son (in 6th) just took a practice ACT and those scores show he has higher scores than the average entering freshmen at many mid-tier colleges. But he is not skipped, nor have we seriously considered a skip. His school is open to subject accelerating and he has many friends and activities he loves that he does not want to disrupt. It is not a great school (by the numbers), but they have been great to him!

In my mind, you skip a child because there is a problem. I am constantly looking for problems, but we haven't had any we have needed to solve by skipping. Others have not been as lucky with their schools, or have kids that have a personality that would thrive on skipping. Or they really need it to stay engaged. For them, it's a good solution.

So I guess what I'm saying is that you son has the numbers to be able to handle the skip academically, but how does everything else stack up? Are there things in the school that you'd hate to have him miss out on a year of? (DS had the most fabulous PE teacher you could imagine and I hated the idea that he'd miss a year of that. Through my childhood, I remember wondering what I missed by never going on the first grade field trip, myself). Basically, if you skip, you are making a trade. Is the trade worth it? For some it is, other it isn't. But those answers don't come from the numbers.