Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Stanford-Binet L-M, and school enrichment question

I'm toying with the idea of finding a tester in our area who still does the Stanford-Binet L-M, just to get a better feel of where ds is ... I guess I'm still questioning the need for fighting the school for accommodation for ds5, as they've refused to do any accommodation for him outside of "his level" DRA reading group (which is a gross underestimate according to his WIAT GE). Has anyone here done the WPPSI or the WIAT, and gone on to do the SB L-M? Was it helpful for your dc/your planning? Worth the effort? How do I even find someone who will do it? We went to the only tester in our state listed on the Hoagies site to do the WPPSI and the WIAT; would she possibly be a resource to find someone who would do the SB L-M?

Also, since the school has refused accommodation for maths based on ds's MAP achievement testing (again, a gross underestimate in my opinion, and I'm 100% sure I'm right), I have a possible solution. Do you think the school would allow me to send enrichment sheets for ds to do during math time if he's finished the work provided? I've gotten the 1A Singapore Maths workbook, which ds could breeze through, and I'm perfectly willing to get him more as he finishes. If I provided those worksheets as enrichment during schooltime, do you think the school would go for it? Or do you think I'd be wasting my time? Has anyone had any experience sending their own enrichment material to school? I can't decide if this is a good idea or not a good idea at *all*. I'm perfectly happy to work with him at home on it, I just hate to have him be at school all day and then insist that he do more work when he gets home, and this seems like a good middle ground.

I am still planning on sending my "Move our kid up in math or else" letter in January, just after the break so it's not lost in a sea of mail for the principal. And I'm waiting with bated breath to hear back from Davidson, as we applied last month.

Thoughts? TIA!

How's your relationship with the teacher? Will she "get it," or will such help from home on math assignments seem to her to be an imposition (or a no-confidence vote on her, or whatever other negative thing...)? To me, it seems perfectly smart and helpful for you to send in appropriate work so she doesn't have to find it, but then I'm not the teacher in the room with your child, so what I think doesn't matter one whit.

I'm going to read the comments on the SB L-M with interest, though I have no help for you there, beyond that I would think your previous tester might be able to steer you in the right direction. It's at least a logical starting point. I've often wondered if the L-M might be useful in our case, but I've never been sure enough to seek it out. It's what I was tested on when I was a kid, so seeing how DS6 did on it might give me a better feel for where he's really functioning, comparatively speaking, particularly since he and I seem wired somewhat similarly.

Babbling now...Anyway, I'm glad you asked!

I've been thinking about you as the Davidson notification date draws nearer for you. Fingers crossed! Not for nuthin', but your son sounds like a shoo-in to me. I hope I'm right.

My daughter is working on the Continental Mathematics League Books as extra math excercises. They are great and she thinks they are fun.

I would approach the teacher carefully. You really want her on your side. Perhaps you should ask her what she thinks about the worksheets and see if it would be helpful to her if you brought them.

Kriston -- See, the teacher's the thing. She seems to recognise that he's bright and is giving him "enrichment" worksheets -- word problems on the order of "Jane has 17 apples and gives 9 of them to John. How many apples does Jane have left?" He get those right, of course, but I'd rather see him on a progressive accelerated plan than getting random arithmetic problems, kwim? And since they're not offering to do it, I was wondering if it might be beneficial to steer them in the right direction. I guess it does depend on how I approach it ... just wondering if anyone had any "that's a horrid idea!" gut reactions.



As for that ... I hope you're right, too! Given his WIAT scores and near-hit WPPSI (148 plus ceilings), I'm hoping he'll be accepted, but I'm still worried. After reading this board (which I discovered about a week or so before sending in his app and didn't even consider asking for advice, duh), I don't think I did him justice in the essay section -- some of the kids here make him sound downright average (or at least almost). I think he comes off sounding bright, but not necessarily PG. And I think I focused on some of the wrong stuff. So I'm hoping his test scores plus a few of my comments will carry him. The thing is, I'm sure the intellect is there, but he doesn't necessarily have the drive to learn that a Ruf Level 5 kid would have -- certainly Level 4, but I don't know if that will do it. I would really, *really* love some help figuring out what the heck to do with him, as homeschool is just not an option for us.

Ugh. Ever wish you had a "normal" kid? Or at least a "garden variety" gifted kid? I tested MG on the SB as a child, so I'd really like to see where ds falls in comparison to where I was. I know I was reading almost on par with him at that age (perhaps a bit behind, but my interest was higher from what I recall), but he's ahead of where I was on maths. So it may be morbid curiosity on the SB L-M, but I feel it would be helpful. I have a PG cousin (180 on the SB L-M), and knowing that he could have scored in my Benjy's range on the WPPSI makes me even more curious to know where Benj would fall.

I guess I'm *still* looking for confirmation -- having applied to Davidson with a hope of getting in, how pathetic is that?

Mia,

I just sent you a PM.

Incog

This discussion has peaked my interest. Here is an interesting article I found regarding the SB-5. Neither of my children have taken this test and I really don't have an opinion either way. Just thought this article gave a colorful description of the test. Enjoy:

http://nswagtc.org.au/info/articles/Smith_Stanford%20Binet%205.PDF

Mia-

I can understand your curiosity. Outdated and questionable as it is, the LM is the only test that really opens up to show the differences among EG-PG kids. Current tests are like the stick to ride the rollercoaster at the amusement park. "Yup, you're tall enough..."

Only one of my kids was tested on the LM. His score was quite high, and it helps *me* to see how different he is, much more clearly than the 160 GAI he had on the WISC. I don't know how confident I would be about sharing it with anyone in a school for advocacy though, as it does have a tarnished reputation.

I did not seek the LM for my other children, as now that I have the score for one, I can extrapolate for the others based upon their relative strengths and weaknesses, and their scores on more modern tests. I suppose I could really get into it as far as guesstimating subtest scores, but I haven't gone that far.

I have a friend in the Chicago area. If you like, I can ask her if there is a tester she recommends. I am not certain if her children have taken the LM, but she might be a good source of information nonetheless. PM me if you want.

I am very new to Singapore Math, but 2 weeks in eith DS7(1st grade doing 2A) playing around I'm very impressed! They are really laid out so he can jump right in and feel very confident(and he is typically not a super confident kid) and is breezing through the exercises with no encouragement or intervention.

I am also fighting an internal battle over whether or not to get DS further tested. He scored above a PR 99 on the NNAT in kindergarten and he did hit the ceiling on the test. The "numbers geek" in me would love more data. But the longer I wait, the less compelled I feel to do it. As time marches on, it becomes more obvious with what we're dealing with, and I'm feeling less like the need to get an exact number to go with it. I know it certainly wouldn't help our school situation. They don't even care about the GT test THEY gave. We could potentially apply to DYS if DS was tested, but that doesn't seem like enough reason to go spend the money. We actually live quite close to Dr. Ruf (http://www.educationaloptions.com/), and I would just LOVE to have her get into DS's psyche just because I know she is so great in this arena.

But unless we see a real compelling reason to get him further tested (i.e. an opportunity for easier acceleration or entry into a gifted school, or even perhaps helping out DH's gifted denial!), we'll probably pass. I also was never tested as a child, so I have no number to compare it to! That would be interesting ... I guess I have no advice - just commiserating.

I'm glad Singapore Math is working well for you, Kim.

Mia:


It sounds to me like a conversation with the teacher is in order and probably won't be badly received if you use a gentle touch. She seems like she's not the sort to go ballistic if you begin a conversation. We had one teacher who was very open to such conversations, and one who took even the slightest question personally. Yours sounds like the former rather than the latter.

Maybe you could say you've come across something to make her job easier that you'd like to share with her, since you know teaching your DS is an added challenge for her and you have SO appreciated her efforts, rather than just flat-out asking her to use the workbook? (or something like that?)

I dunno though. I feel like I'm really bad at this advocacy stuff! I fear my "gentle touches" come off as manipulative and my normal approach is too bull-in-the-china-shop. I'm definitely an acquired taste...

Oh, and I know exactly what you mean about the LM! It's not so much that we want/need/care about that high score. That's just a meaningless number. It's context that we need, and I wonder if using the same yardstick that was used on me--flawed as it is--might help me make sense of DS's abilities. I could see where he is in relation to me, and that would help it all to make more sense.

Maybe instead of giving our DSs the LM, perhaps you and I just need to take the WISC now! LOL!

This sounds like a very good idea. Since she prepares extra material for him anyway she may find this very helpful. Have you checked the supplementary material for Singapore math? Challenging Word Problems 1 or Primary Math Intense Practice 1. I just looked at their sample pages and some of the problems are similar to what his teacher uses but they seem to go father. I would think she may like it.

I wouldn't bother with the test unless you want to get better idea about his abilities. The school already saw his IQ and achievement tests and I don't think one extra IQ test would make any difference not to mention that it's not really a popular test these days. I would expect the schools to care more about the achievement test than the IQ test though. Wait for Davidson and see if he gets in and what they suggest.