Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Asynchronous Development

Our DD5 is academically advanced (reading and math), but emotionally age-appropriated and socially shy. She is a perfectionist and very sensitive in general. One day, her teacher told me that DD cried during a group spelling assessment because she could not spell certain words.

A few days later, we asked the school counselor for achievement exam to find an appropriate level for DD. The school counselor stated that every child is challenged at his/her level in the school. (We do not agree with this statement as DD is doing higher level math than what is taught. For reading, more advanced readers are paired and read on their own most of the time.) Then, she concluded her email by questioning DD's emotional maturity (using the above as the example).

We understand that we need to help DD with her emotions. (Thanks to many posts here and books recommendations by this community.) But some kids might take longer in this area than others.

Does any one have children in this similar situation? What do you do? Is emotional issues a reason to hold back a child's academic challenges? Did you stay with the school system or do you home school? If home schooling, how is your child doing (academically, emotionally, and socially)?

(Due to the emotional aspect of issue and after reading the Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual, we are not sure whole grade acceleration is warranted at this time. This school district does not have "pull-out" math enrichment program until 3rd grade. It also does not offer single-subject acceleration.)

Many thanks!

We have exactly the same with our son and got exactly the same repsonse. We have left him where he is as he does have some friends and the school is catering for him for some non-academic areas( he is a gifted sculptor/artist) and we hope he will be mature enough to cope.

Someone on this site once told me that with his profile a good social/educational match would be near impossible and we would have difficulties (I think it was Dottie ?) - and boy was she right. But our son is fairly happy and progressing and we do a lot of stuff outside the curriculum (extension stuff?) at home. This seems to be working fairly well, but it does get fraught with the school at times.

We have a similar situation. DS4 is a terrible perfectionist and is very sensitive and emotional. At the beginning of the school year, he often burst into tears when he couldn't spell a word or his penmanship wasn't all that he wanted it to be. Fortunately, he's at a private school that understands gifted kids and their issues, so his teacher has given him not only a radically accelerated curriculum in reading and math, but also a lot of help dealing with the perfectionism. For example, she tells DS that all the work he does in class is a "sloppy copy" and that if he wants perfection he can copy things over again when he's done. Of course he's too lazy to make the "perfect" copy, so he's getting used to living with "good enough." His level of comfort with making mistakes improved enormously after just a few weeks in school, thanks to the kind and patient efforts of this teacher.

I guess all of this is to say that some people get gifted kids and some people don't. It sounds like your counselor is in the latter category, so you might have to educate him/her yourself.

Mags,
I know that getting IQ tests are an issue at your house, but when you read the Ruf book, what level does she 'smack' of?

Your quote above reminds me of 2 possibilies:
1) The teachers feel that you should just 'let her be a kid' so any actual weakness she might show for a single minute they are going to be sure to 'share' with you to bolster their side of things.

or

2) She is showing perfectionistic behavior which is caused by them not allowing her to be placed at her readiness level.

2 things to keep in mind.

1) If she is ruf level 3 or higher, then keeping her with agemates can be very stressful. This stress causes her to need 'way above average' coping skill, so behavior such as crying in school has to be viewed, not as a sign that she is immature, but as a sign that even though she probably has better than average coping skills, her situation (bored to tears 6 hours a day, plus having internal 'OverExcitablities' that are felt to be 'part and parcel' of being gifted) is more than what she can handle.

2) Does keeping a child of that age in a situation where they are bored to tears 6 hours a day really 'letting her be a child?' To me, being a child means having lots of opportunity to interact with peers (not nescessarily age mates) and lots of opportunity to explore the world. It also means having someone, hopefully lots of someones, think about her well. Her, the person, not some group norm.

Go get the tests. Also read Ruf's book to get an idea of 'how unusual' she may be, and send me a private message where you live, and your estimate of her level and I'll do my best to help you find a nearby tester who can give you 'real' advice. Get the ball rolling - these things move so sloooooowly!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Dear everyone who has shared your experience and offered advice, I really appreciate your time. I had so many sleepless nights because I don't know what to do. I am trying to educate myself by reading books and this forum. Hopefully, someday, I will be able to help and support others like you have done for me.

When DD was young (LOL, she is still young), having no one else to compare to, we just thought DD liked maps and puzzles -- she knew the 50 states with their capitals before turning three. We honestly did not think much about it. Slowly, we realized that she learns quickly. However, because she was so used to mastering things quickly, when she was taking piano lessons (and now multiplication), she got very frustrated when the music piece became more challenging (i.e. required her to practice). After a few months, we gave in and "took a break." We are rather concerned about her learning attitude (run away if it gets difficult).

Raddy, cricket3, and MsFriz: thank you for sharing.

Raddy: It's interesting that you mentioned it is almost impossible to find an educational environment that will be a good fit for our children. I spoke to my brother-in-law, who went to college at the age of 15. He said the same thing.

cricket3: Thank you for sharing your daughter's experience.
Since DD seems happy and her teachers love her (because she sits quietly, follows directions, and never causes troubles), we have kept her in kindergarten at this time. However, we wonder sometimes if there is a solution where she is happy and is learning too.

MsFriz: Are you related to Ms. Frizzle from the Magic School Bus? It is one of my daughter's favorite series.

Grinity: thank you for your advice and support. Due to this whole emotional aspect of the situation, I have been reading books about this topic. We ordered Dr. Ruf's book last weekend. Hopefully it will get here soon. Also, after reading "A Nation Deceived" and Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual, we have decided to have DD tested in January 2010. I believe you mentioned a list of psychologists on Hoagies website, so we found someone from the list. Should we get both IQ and achievement tests, right?

Thanks!

Wow - you completely described my 5 year old daughter. She is a young kindergartner(summer birthday). She would have emotional melt downs constantly as a preschooler. She has not been tested, but her 9 year old brother is HG+ based on some very basic testing and he easily works 3-6 years beyond grade level in everything with the exception of hand writing.

Anyway, life is so much easier for her homeschooling. I thought maybe she would not like it or be willing to co-operate. But 3 things have become clear since she started homeschooling this fall. 1 - she is GT, and probably more than a little. 2 - she is thriving academically on about 30 minutes of mandatory school work a day. She chooses to do more on her own. The past couple days she spent hours dissecting a disk drive. She writes poems and gives them to me, etc. 3 - she is much less sensitive in social situations. We discovered she is a little shy initially, but actually probably an extrovert (or a balance). She loves older or GT kids.

I've found for both my kids, I've had to find activities where they make plenty of mistakes and need to work through that. Music lessons have been great for both of them. I can't tell you how many break downs we had the first 6 months of violin lessons with DD. But her willingness to try new things and be ok with failure or difficulty has already come a long way in a years time.

Testing your daughter should really help you make good decisions for her! Good luck!

Edited to say - I just saw that you had already tried music lessons, but anything open ended can work well for fighting perfectionism. Unicycle lessons for my son were great too! Martial arts, drawing classes, dance, etc.

MSB was my son's entire world for about six months when he was three (about the time I joined this forum). Things got so bad he wanted me to PLAY Magic School Bus with him at home, in parks, while we were at the grocery store. I had to be Ms. Frizzle and he was always Ralph. I was just thankful and relieved at the time that he didn't identify with Arnold, who is clearly the nerdiest of them all!

At my old school kids NEVER memorized their state capitols or driving directions at age 3!

((wink))

Wow - really well said, and very wise G3!
Problem is this: What if the placement itself is causing the very problems that are making advancement look unattractive? We lived through that.

Also, DD melted over the challenge of music or times tables, which hints to me that the current school situation is contributing to the lack of 'learning how to learn' by not providing academic challenge on a regular basis.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Hi Grinity,

I have seen that you have mentioned "learning how to learn" in a couple of recent posts. This is such an important skill that will benefit kiddo's greatly both now and the future. I totally agree, but not sure how?! Do you or any parents have any books, resources, or activities you can recommend?

Thanks!

Hi Grinity,

Just scanned over Dr. Ruf's five levels of gifted. Embarrassed to say, DH and I are having a hard time remembering DD and DS's younger days. LOL. Hopefully this will give you a basic idea:

1. For reading, puzzles, games, math, watching TV, playing computers: DD and DS are mostly in level 4, with some in level 3 and maybe 1-2 items in level 5 (such as knowing the alphabet, numbers, colors, and shapes early).

2. For DD (almost 6): with the exception of pretty good fine motor skills, her gross motor has always been more age-appropriate (such as writing or using scissors). As for speech, she actually did not say a word until after 2 years of age. But although she did not speak, she was able to pick out the right card, point to the right object, and follow instructions well.

As far as music goes.... When she was taking piano (around age 4), her teacher was impressed with her rapid progression and her ability to learn to read the music notes (the first few songs in Suzuki Book 1 for piano). Until the practice got too overwhelmed for both of us.

3. For DS4: His fine motor was considered advanced. His general motor and speech are more age appropriate. He enjoys playing checkers and chess. He does not have any strategies, but simply following the rules to have fun. As for computer games, he loves to talk about what's needed to solve a particular level during dinner time.

Thank you again!

PS: Tried to PM you, but your mailbox is full! Once the test results are back, I will try to PM you again. Happy Holidays!

Edited: after reading some of level four's parents' comments, I am not so sure if DD and DS are "gifted" at that level or they are exposed to the info and reached the listed milestones at an earlier age. For one, DC rarely "immediately" or "automatically" shout out answers. Often, a situation presented itself, we talked about it, and they asked some questions and listen to some examples, then they get the idea.

It's often the case with gifted children that they..well they don't struggle emotionally - they're just emotionally different. Often they feel ostracised at school because they're simply not thinking in the same way as the other kids. This is perfectly normal (we come across it all the time!), but it can mean that they're not all that keen to put up their hand in class.

I think school is really important for developing their social schools, but it should not hold them back. As Mark Twain said: 'I never let my schooling get in the way of my education'.

There are many options open to you, from home schooling, distance learning, to specialised gifted groups and programs.

All the best.

In the best of all possible worlds, a child would 'learn how to learn' by spending their whole day in classrooms that are within their 'readiness to learn' level. Some classes might be a little easier and some might be really hard, but all would be 'in the ballpark.'

If that just isn't going to happen, can you afterschool, summer enrich, use one of the summer camps, get a tutor/mentor? Yes! Will it work? Maybe!

Everyone does what they can, but in my ideal world, every child would get this during their school day.
Love and More Love,
Grinity

Hey Mag - sorry! I did some housekeeping.
The reason I asked for a levels estimation is to see if you can expect 'reasonable' information from a 'local' tester. IMHO, Any level 3 or above really needs to get testing from one of the 'top 20' IQ testers in the U.S. (if you are in the U.S.) even if travel is a bit of a hardship. Maybe you will get lucky and happen to live near one of these folks, but Level 3 and above are rare enough that it is unrealistic to expect 'regular testers' to make much sense when they interpret the scores - if they can even get accurate scores.

Smiles,
Grinity